@M3RC3N4RI0 said in Ideal tier list?:
@HeartQueen The Meta will obviously not be played in Casual games, but if the Meta is too different from the champions played in Casual, this causes problems. The players have to relearn when they finally switch to ranked, since they never saw a tank before, for example. Ranked will be less attractive because they have to play champions they don't like to play. And if double tank is the only winning strat, the matches in casual wont be won by the better team, but the team that got 2 tank players by chance. There is also a negative atmosphere cause nobody wants to be the useful idiot who has to play tank, and so on.
An ideal meta around casual players would not look like yours but the dps and supports would be on top and the tanks at the bottom, so no one has to play them since they are useless anyway. With that the shield problem is also gone.
The casual Meta is a fun Meta. The more fun a champ is, the higher it is on the tierlist, while for the ranked meta it only is important how strong the champ is. In reality this is only a tendency of course.
No. Look, there are 3 types of 'meta' in this game. Casual, ladder, and scrim/pro.
Casual meta is just a catch all. It's play whatever you feel like playing. Maybe a solo tank and support if people are filling. This is what you DON'T want to design your meta around at all. 5 support can dominate here by the way. So yeah... Just no.
Ladder is basically ranked Diamond+ It's what you need to climb. Ladder encourages filling and respecting the draft. So it's about what is easy and strong, playing multiple roles in one, and having having aoe multi-target damage.
Scrim/Pro is different from ladder. Ladder encourages filling, so you need to be more flexible. In scrims, you specialize in a role. Like Tyra is very strong in ladder/ranked because she has enough sustain to where she can do well even with a bad support, she has point control which is utility and a multi-target damage, plus she can play a tanky support which is two roles in one. Though in scrims, everyone is good at their assigned role. You would much rather have Cassie over Tyra because you can guarantee that your support will be good and that your off tank will create space and peel for you.
Ideally, you want a meta around high ladder and scrims. Why? It gives people something to work to. What's the point of working and learning to improve, if the top play is Vivian with a Jenos pocket? People dedicate time to Fortnite and even take classes to learn how to build. This actually keeps engagement up.
Though what happens for people who don't care about meta and want casual fun? Simple!
events: fun and wacky events like End Times for one. Something where they'll have fun no matter what.
fun balance: instead of dumbing down the meta, let's leave the meta where it is. However, you can have fun talents. Like maybe buff the base kit of some champions to make talents more viable. Give slight buffs and fun changes to some of the underperforming talents. Like Ying for example, I would:
buff base illusion healing and change it from 400 every 1.6s to 280 healing every second.
A nerfed Focusing Lens in base kit to where the bonus for all ticks is 100 or 150
Then replace it with Life Like where her illusion healing is brought down to 230 per second, but each illusion heals 2 people at once. That way Life Exchange is her heal, Life Like is her hybrid, and Resonance is her damage.
Rant
This is what grinds my gears about Neco and Adanas. They think Life Like will be a situation where it's inferior to Life Exchange. Well yeah, that's true. However, the point is that it's an option for people. There will always be ONE best talent and ONE meta talent. The thing is to focus less on trying to make everything meta for top players, and focus on making things viable and fun. Like reduce Jenos heal duration from 10s-->8s and buff his heal from 1800 over 10s to 2,000 over 8s. This gives him a 250 heal per second, so it opens him up to other talents as a solo support because his base healing is good enough as far as casuals is concerned. Like sure celestial touch being brought back would be the best option over double jump with stellar wind, but stellar wind would still not be too bad with his base kit being decent, and it'd be fun.
Rant Over
I see this often when people say nerf and buff around casuals. You don't make them happy by making everything they like, no matter how braindead, meta. You do make them happy by making the game fun and giving more content. Having tanks be bad in the meta won't make them happy. It doesn't solve the core issue. Like certain talents are still flat out throw picks. Certain talents are the only thing good about a champion because their base kit is so bad. Plus the game hasn't had an event in how long?
