How to Dwarven Engineer, a Barik Guide


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    @a_a said in How to Dwarven Engineer, a Barik Guide:

    @Dusklicious said in How to Dwarven Engineer, a Barik Guide:

    Items.png

    I have a question, as a barik main, Why do you think chronos is useless for barik?
    It's my most picked item.

    Chronos isn't worth the investment. Maxing out a 2400 credit item just to do something you could do with a level 3 card, albeit with less consistency, seems very pointless. Plus it takes up an item slot.

    @AYYDIMITRI Nimble doesn't really have much of a purpose. Sure Barik lacks movement speed, but he surely doesn't lack in mobility. Not to mention, a slight increase to low movement speed isn't going to really affect him any.

    @TangAce Don't act like your opinion is fact please. With that out of the way:
    As for the matchups:
    Evie- I have no idea why Evie wouldn't be a problem. She can dodge literally any of the damage you can throw at her, then burst you and your turrets. With her ult up, its literally a guaranteed kill for her. Though all of the other flanks are relatively easy, I don't think Evie is.
    Terminus- I don't think you've faced a good Terminus. I play Terminus a lot as well and I regard Barik as literally free as long as you run Crush. The stun plus the burst is downright fatal for Barik. Not to mention, he's absurd with Bulldozer.
    Tyra- Not really, no. She's potentially easy to deal with considering her lack of mobility, but her fire bombs are a serious threat. They can melt you and your turrets and even cripple you if she's running Burn, Monster
    Sha- He can destroy your shield VERY quickly with enough Wrecker, not to mention he can easily melt you from a range you can't really deal with him at. I lump him with other snipers for those reasons.
    Drogoz- You haven't faced a good one then if he allows you to consistently hit him while he's in the air. Yeah he is significantly easier with Tinkerin, but even then his ult can be a serious problem if used competently. Not to mention, Salvo is also a serious problem especially if he's running Wrecker.

    Bowling Ball isn't really basic for Archi, at all. It needs Failsafe to be consistent, so to put it in every build would require you to forgo any situational choices like Combat Repair. I did see this and I think maybe I could replace Field Deploy with Failsafe so it can be optionally ran, although only at rank 2. I'd have to see how it feels first. If it feels like the deploy time is better or the dashes. I could see that going either way to be honest.

    You believe what you believe, I'll believe what I believe. By the way, Architectonics has a 1% higher winrate than Tink as of now according to Better Meta. I don't really appreciate somebody telling me how to build or play my main, that I've played over 900 games with.


  • PC

    @Dusklicious

    I play evie a lot, I can tell you that barik is annoying af, turrets manage to hit you while you fly, one shot is 1/3 of your life (and it's not that complicated to hit evie on her tp or during soar while playing barik, at least I'm able to do it)

    if you are playing archi than yeah term is a problem, with tinkerin it's not that hard since you can stay at range...

    tyra's fire is so easy to avoid, you can see it coming from mile away

    sha lin needs at least 10 shots if he don't miss anything, 10 shots is 10sec, if you can't kill sha in 10sec then there's a problem with you, he's literally the worst damage against barik

    I play in master and gm, I think I face good drogoz

    I'm not even taking about the fact that you put khan cassie lian and talus into medium

    bowling ball is the most important card for barik, everyone will tell you the same
    it's not even my opinion here, it's just how it is, and everyone plays failsafe for obvious reasons, reset cards like failsafe

    I don't think you understand how stats work, the winrate displayed is not the absolute truth, there are maybe 2% players using archi and everyone else using tinkerin, so obviously the winrate doesn't have the same precision, pls learn how to read graphs on thebettermeta

    I have played every champ for many hours, I have over 2000 hours in this game, I mean in a match not in the menus (counting smurfs here) I think I can tell how to play barik who's one of the tanks I play the best
    I play in master so maybe your elo is lower and archi is working for you there

    I'm not gonna tell you how to, just saying if you write a guide you gotta at least know the matchup and correct builds, saying to people not to play bowling ball is really not something I can overlook

    you're free to believe archi is better if ya want, but I don't want a bunch of people coming into ranked playing archi instead of tinkerin just cause they saw it in forum



  • @Dusklicious said in How to Dwarven Engineer, a Barik Guide:

    You believe what you believe, I'll believe what I believe. By the way, Architectonics has a 1% higher winrate than Tink as of now according to Better Meta.

    And that is only the overall winrate. If you pick 2500+ (mid Platinum) Architectonics is already 5% better than Tinkering. On 2700+ (Diamond) it's 6% better and on 3000+ (Master) it's 8% better. Which means the higher the skill the worse is Tinkering compared to Architectonics. Even Fortify has a better winrate than Tinkering. What makes me think that Tink gives a personal feeling of doing better because the shooting is something I do myself while the turret damage and the shots wasted on turrets is something I don't experience unlike the hits I do with Tinkering.

    @TangAce said in How to Dwarven Engineer, a Barik Guide:

    I don't think you understand how stats work, the winrate displayed is not the absolute truth, there are maybe 2% players using archi and everyone else using tinkerin

    It's 35% of the ranked players using Architectonics, in absolute numbers in 6583 of ~18000 matches archi was used, which is more than enough to make a proper statistic. Lets stay with constructive criticism, I'd appreciate that. 😉


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in How to Dwarven Engineer, a Barik Guide:

    It's 35% of the ranked players using Architectonics, in absolute numbers in 6583 of ~18000 matches archi was used, which is more than enough to make a proper statistic. Lets stay with constructive criticism, I'd appreciate that. 😉

    I have a feeling he didn't look up the stats himself, and just tried to silence my case for Architectonics.

    Constructive criticism is always appreciated, but I've seen plenty of non-constructive criticism here in a couple of particular replies. I've tried to address any reasonable critiques and questions I have seen concerning this guide and give as satisfactory of replies to the suggestions that I have seen.


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    @M3RC3N4RI0

    that's exactly what I was saying, you're all looking at 2500 rating lel, 2500 is plat, once you reach the 2700 cap which correspond to diamond, you see that archi is played by less than 10% which isn't enough to have proper stats, you can say it has higher winrate in master but it's totally irrelevant considering the number of matches it was played
    then if you look at damage / elims / deaths part of the same graph, you'll see that tinkerin is better in all 3 stats, but sure keep saying archi is better...people do get carried even in master, so yeah obviously most winrates are close, but when you look deeper you clearly see what are the best talents

    anyway I already explained enough why tinkerin is way better, on a side note you'll never see ppl players with archi 😉

    @Dusklicious
    I look up at thebettermeta regularly, I have used these graphs since they came out
    we could ask some other players what they think but I'm pretty sure they would be on my side concerning most of my points
    then you don't have much credibility when you say that sha can easily kill barik or that talus is not so hard to deal with, I can understand how one can feel like evie is a tough matchup while it's not, but saying sha is harder to deal with than talus while being barik? lel one kills you in about 2sec while the other needs at least 10sec, one has the best movement speed in the game + a failsafe ability, while the other has crappy movement and well nothing that other champs won't do better
    not even gonna explain why you shouldn't say nara is a tough matchup, really barik is one of the 2 tanks who can contest her, how is that tough?


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  • Moderator

    Let's try to keep this civil please! It's only one person's guide, not the law on how to play him. If we have different opinions, that's fine, but here isn't the place to argue over them.


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    This post is deleted!


  • @TangAce said in How to Dwarven Engineer, a Barik Guide:

    that's exactly what I was saying, you're all looking at 2500 rating lel, 2500 is plat

    Yes, I am looking at Platin. The players from PPL don't need guides. The guides are for the 98% who play below Diamond. For those it's relevant what works below Diamond, not what works in the PPL.


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in How to Dwarven Engineer, a Barik Guide:

    @TangAce said in How to Dwarven Engineer, a Barik Guide:

    that's exactly what I was saying, you're all looking at 2500 rating lel, 2500 is plat

    Yes, I am looking at Platin. The players from PPL don't need guides. The guides are for the 98% who play below Diamond. For those it's relevant what works below Diamond, not what works in the PPL.

    Even then, people in Diamond+ almost always play a specific way, even if it isn't always the most effective, because that's just what's in the meta at that time. I've noticed that most higher level players aren't all that open to strategies different than their own, and they sometimes resort to elitism as an argument.

    My advice would be to just ignore this guy at this point. He's proven that all he wants to do is try to smear my guide simply because I'm not Diamond+ (I was Platinum IV in the last split). His credibility here anyways would be shot by his Barik stats being a ways worse than mine are, and also there's the fact he literally has an 1/8 of my experience with the champion.


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    @M3RC3N4RI0
    if you teach plats or gold how to play like plats/golds then what is the point? they won't get better
    if ya teach em how to play better than they are playing then it's useful
    that is why I'm talking about what is good in diamond / master, because people want to get there, and they won't do it with crappy decks not even having bowling ball in it x)
    it's like you can play koga in silver, it'll work, but you won't get past a certain rank with him
    at a point you gotta play a tiny bit stuff that are good, I'm someone who love off meta, but if I play something off meta I play it great, and it's way more work for the same result than playing op stuff

    as I said if someone wants to write an architectonics guide then sure, but you should only talk about archi in it, this was made an overall guide, an overall guide must at least present meta decks and talents, cause it's what people re looking for in overall guides, meta stuff and some hints on possible but less good stuff

    then I'll repeat myself, archi does have a higher winrate, but even in the 2500 rating you can see on the graph that every single stats is better from tinkerin than archi

    I never said this guide was bad (except the matchup thingy which is partly bad, and that cdr on elim card) I'm just saying some things should be changed in order to either make it a specific guide or overall guide

    you said yourself that stuff like bowling ball and failsafe were mandatory no matter your deck (for exemple) so I'm not so wrong eh
    I get you both love archi and that's fine, but then make it a specific archi guide, and someone will make an overall one, the same way I did for Seris

    anyway if your only argument is winrate it's not relevant enough, especially in plat elo which is total madness with both skilled and unskilled players, tons of people are getting carried af, you should really look at some other stats
    (I mean damba has a lesser winrate than Seris at every elo, does it mean he's less good? diamond + players probably do more with damba, but there are always some people doing shit with him so it lowers his winrate, while seris is way more consistent since she's way easier)

    @Dusklicious
    I don't care that you are plat or diamond , I know plat players who are way better than most diamonds, also I don't play tank that much in ranked, in lower elo I play dps and in higher I play supp since I main supp
    then looking at both our barik ranked stats
    you played less than 20hours of barik lifetime, I played 10hours, I have s lightly lower kda 2.44 vs 2.18, but the kill/death ratio is the same, meanly you only do more assists (logical since you play archi^^) then I have a higher winrate, so you can't really say you are better on barik 🙂 especially since my stats were played in a higher elo, but if ya wanna compare stats we can continue, won't do much tho 😉

    if you can't accept you make some mistakes even on a champ you know very well...nothing I can do
    ya know I still learn stuff on maps or champs I thought I knew perfectly
    like for furia I thought the cherish buff wouldn't do much, in the end I play cherish in ranked now because it simply works better

    on a side note you are NA player, maybe we don't have the same meta, idk much about NA meta tbh, I just know it's a bit different like they ban atlas less than in EU



  • @Dusklicious said in How to Dwarven Engineer, a Barik Guide:

    Even then, people in Diamond+ almost always play a specific way, even if it isn't always the most effective, because that's just what's in the meta at that time.

    Yeah. That's also my opinion. For example if you look at the stats for Damba at Diamond skill, there are 556 matches and a winrate of 43%. Nevertheless most high rank players will probably prefer a Damba in their team compared to, I dunno, Grover with his 56% winrate.

    My advice would be to just ignore this guy at this point.

    Nah, that quarrel is between you two.

    @TangAce said in How to Dwarven Engineer, a Barik Guide:

    @M3RC3N4RI0
    if you teach plats or gold how to play like plats/golds then what is the point? they won't get better

    Of course they will get better. They will rank up, thanks to playing effective champs and talents, then play against better players and get better themselves. Or they will be stuck at Platin cause of playing champs that are great at PPL but ineffective at Platin.

    if ya teach em how to play better than they are playing then it's useful

    But you don't. You teach em how they'd be effective at Master if they'd have enough skill to play at Master.

    that is why I'm talking about what is good in diamond / master, because people want to get there

    But the wont get there by using techniques they lack the skill to use.

    it's like you can play koga in silver, it'll work, but you won't get past a certain rank

    True, but Koga is shit on every rank and bowling ball is great on every rank.

    as I said if someone wants to write an architectonics guide then sure, but you should only talk about archi in it, this was made an overall guide, an overall guide must at least present meta decks and talents, cause it's what people re looking for in overall guides, meta stuff and some hints on possible but less good stuff

    But he mentioned Tinkering as What everyone else believes Barik's best talent is while he believes that architectonics is best.

    you said yourself that stuff like bowling ball and failsafe were mandatory no matter your deck (for exemple) so I'm not so wrong eh

    In my opinion this is the case, yes.

    (I mean damba has a lesser winrate than Seris at every elo, does it mean he's less good?

    This depends on how you define "being good". But yes, the usual definition of being good is to win more.

    you played less than 20hours of barik lifetime, I played 10hours

    Hey. I have 300 games with Barik so the opinions of you two are irrelevant compared to mine.


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in How to Dwarven Engineer, a Barik Guide:

    @Dusklicious said in How to Dwarven Engineer, a Barik Guide:

    Even then, people in Diamond+ almost always play a specific way, even if it isn't always the most effective, because that's just what's in the meta at that time.

    Yeah. That's also my opinion. For example if you look at the stats for Damba at Diamond skill, there are 556 matches and a winrate of 43%. Nevertheless most high rank players will probably prefer a Damba in their team compared to, I dunno, Grover with his 56% winrate.

    My advice would be to just ignore this guy at this point.

    Nah, that quarrel is between you two.

    Well, I've said more than once that I'm totally done trying to make any sort of argument with him because he seems to just be intent on harassing me for having opinions that are different than his are, and trying to act like his opinions have more weight when quite provably they don't. Being involved in drama isn't good for anyone's health anyways I don't think.


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    @M3RC3N4RI0
    see we totally agree on damba

    let's say a player in is plat and stuck, he'll need to learn to play better to get to diamond, so he may search for guides and stuff, but if he sees someone saying archi is op, he'll stay stuck in plat, yes it'll be enough to stay in plat, not to go higher, let's say someone is silver and want to reach plat, do you think that it would be easier with archi? no, simply because tinkerin is op af and can carry games while archi can't
    if you'd tell me on a champ like evie or andro with high skill cap and very different gameplay depending the talent, I'd say yeah, maybe they's better learn the easiest first, but on barik?
    the only difference in terms of skill is aiming, and since you are a tank you can miss some shots especially in low elo, plus it gives you good habits (like turret placements and such) instead of bad habits (yeah cause at a point the player will end up using tinkerin, just simply cause everyone told him it's better, and maybe after hundreds of game he will switch back to archi cause he thinks it's better)
    and regardless of opness, you can say archi is easier but tinkerin is meta, if you want to do a beginner guide
    you can try as hard as you want to change the meta during a patch, it won't change

    I play a lot of reso ying, I believe it's the best talent for ying (at least for me since I'm unable to play LE anyway), yet it's not meta, and I'll never say it's better, I'd simply say it's what I use and explain how to use it, if I was to make a ying guide I would call it a reso ying guide, I wouldn't even talk about LE in it since I don't use it, if I wanted to make an overall ying guide then I would have to mainly talk about LE and eventually a bit about reso

    if you are writing about let's say moji or some champs with multiple talents being on the same lvl in terms of bad/op-ness, then yeah you can mainly talk about both of them, but here, mainly talking about archi, presenting bad archi decks, I can only say there are issues, and I don't even say it for myself, I don't need a guide to play barik, I say it because it wouldn't help players to use said decks and talent
    if it was just archi I wouldn't be so insistant, but there are several important issues in this guide

    and yeah koga sucks, still one can be able to play it in silver if he is skilled enough with koga, but when you go up in elo no matter how good you are you won't be able to play koga and mostly win, or maybe one player in all paladins will manage, well it's the same for barik, you can play archi in low elo np, but when you go higher you can't, it'll simply not work anymore

    @Dusklicious

    I'm not harassing you let's be clear on that, and I don't care about opinions, if you write a guide it's good to have opinions, but let's say someone believe barrikade is the best talent, and you see this guide saying to everyone to play this talent you call useless, and even more presenting a very bad loadout for it, wouldn't you say anything? well I would, cause idc what everyone believe is best, however I care that a guide tons of people will read doesn't spread such bad ideas such as playing without bowling ball is good, it'll not help anyone, people following that advice will rank down eventually while making their teammates lose for nothing

    you don't even care to think about my opinions anyway, you just deny them without any solid argument, just cause you believe
    well as I said I love to play off meta and yeah it can work, still if I'm teaching someone a champ, I will teach the meta part, then I can teach the off meta part which usually is harder to pull off, but off meta stuff are usually reserved for advanced players who trained a lot to be able to actually play it
    on barik yeah archi requires no skill at all, beginner friendly, then put it like that, as easier to play but not meta, don't say it's op if it's not, I have never seen a good barik player use archi, simply cause it doesn't work, or maybe with a very specific comp, but that's an other thing

    if you want you can try to prove me and the world wrong, play archi barik and get to D2+ while playing mostly archi barik, maybe you'll be able to do it, but you ain't the one who needs advices on barik, I feel like you have no idea what a guide is made for

    I may have the worst formatting in the world, but I have a lot of experience in writing guides, I wrote guides for any kind of champs, meta or not, I also dropped some guides cause I wasn't playing the champ anymore (my old skye guide for exemple) you don't write guide for yourself or to try showing everyone your non meta talent is the best, if you want to do that you can write a guide specifically for that talent

    you can't even admit I'm right about bowling ball, or about your matchup chart

    not playing bowling ball on barik is like not playing the range card on jenos, you can do it but it'll just be bad and everyone will say it, I don't think new players are looking at guides to end up being insulted every match


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