Buff Cassie


  • PC

    This post is deleted!


  • @a_a said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut

    Looks like we have to stop this argument or this thread will get closed.
    also this is just an opinion.

    What makes you say that? I'm new to this forum.


  • PC

    This post is deleted!


  • @a_a said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut

    I am trying to help your thread from getting closed by a moderator, if you want this it's ok, up to you.

    this is my first time being toxic

    Why don't you explain why you think the mods here are going to close this thread?


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    This post is deleted!

  • Moderator

    One of the main things that could get a thread that initially passes the constructiveness test closed is if it descends into a mindless argument.

    @taikonaut Your current behavior is fine, the problem here is that the people on your thread could provoke you. The best course of action is to keep your cool and ignore.

    If you see a thread going out of control, contact a moderator before it gets too out of control if you want the thread to be salvaged.



  • I'm aware that my style of reasoning will almost always descend into a DPS vs. other roles debate, or a hitscan vs. non hitscan debate. However, I think that's the crux of the issues I'm trying to talk about. Although Cassie is the example, the bigger picture is the extent to which skilled aimers should be able to carry the game against deathblobs consisting of well-coordinated tanks and healers, which is exactly what a_a pointed out when he said that the changes to Cassie I am proposing would make her and other DPS champions OP.



  • Well Lex is a really uncreative uninspired bland character so I don't mind superseding him. Her crossbow could be replaced with a hunting rifle.

    Ever try dueling Strix as Cassie, even at close range? Very unpleasant experience. Even dueling Andro, Lian, or Lex, they can dodge your shots unless you have them disengaged, you can't dodge theirs. Sniping with her you miss most of your shots because it's a matter of prediction more than it is aim.

    And she's really not a top tier character or she would be first pick every game instead of Khan, Ash, Makoa, Inara, Barik, and Atlas.



  • @Snipah said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut ye, I agree that lex is a really poorly designed character but imo there are much worse ones lol.
    Just look at vivian... ugh, what hell was hirez smoking while designing her kit? Okno, maybe they just ran out of ideas.
    I would also add DREDGE, IMANI and MOJI but they're different.
    They're not like vivian, tbh their concept is interesting, they just fucked up everything with spammy and boring abilities + absurd braindead burst.

    Yeah, right now I'm mainly just focused on buffing the creative, cool characters to a state of carry potential like for example the carry potential Strix has right now, while just kind of ignoring everyone else. The characters I feel have the most potential are Cassie, Drogoz, Strix, and Androxus.


  • PC

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @Snipah said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut ye, I agree that lex is a really poorly designed character but imo there are much worse ones lol.
    Just look at vivian... ugh, what hell was hirez smoking while designing her kit? Okno, maybe they just ran out of ideas.
    I would also add DREDGE, IMANI and MOJI but they're different.
    They're not like vivian, tbh their concept is interesting, they just fucked up everything with spammy and boring abilities + absurd braindead burst.

    Yeah, right now I'm mainly just focused on buffing the creative, cool characters to a state of carry potential like for example the carry potential Strix has right now, while just kind of ignoring everyone else. The characters I feel have the most potential are Cassie, Drogoz, Strix, and Androxus.

    Why? This is a team effort game. If a team can't work together they should be punished with a loss.

    Creating "carry" champions will just create more OP problems to complain about.



  • @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.


  • PC

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.

    I think we don't agree on what "carry" means. That's fine.

    Strengthening DPS will cause more and faster deaths and a corresponding buff of supports and everything else to attempt to compensate. I don't see this as a plus. I'd rather increase the TTK and make it more strategy based over who can shoot the fastest, apply the most damage or aim the best.



  • @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.

    I think we don't agree on what "carry" means. That's fine.

    Strengthening DPS will cause more and faster deaths and a corresponding buff of supports and everything else to attempt to compensate. I don't see this as a plus. I'd rather increase the TTK and make it more strategy based over who can shoot the fastest, apply the most damage or aim the best.

    Why would you prefer that?

    In my case it's pretty simple. I'd like to be able to hard carry even if my team sucks simply by shooting everyone on the other team before they can shoot me. What's your motivation?


  • PC

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.

    I think we don't agree on what "carry" means. That's fine.

    Strengthening DPS will cause more and faster deaths and a corresponding buff of supports and everything else to attempt to compensate. I don't see this as a plus. I'd rather increase the TTK and make it more strategy based over who can shoot the fastest, apply the most damage or aim the best.

    Why would you prefer that?

    In my case it's pretty simple. I'd like to be able to hard carry even if my team sucks simply by shooting everyone on the other team before they can shoot me. What's your motivation?

    This is a team game and should require team play to win a match. If I didn't want to play a team game then I would play COD Free For All or some other game that has a mode like that.



  • @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.

    I think we don't agree on what "carry" means. That's fine.

    Strengthening DPS will cause more and faster deaths and a corresponding buff of supports and everything else to attempt to compensate. I don't see this as a plus. I'd rather increase the TTK and make it more strategy based over who can shoot the fastest, apply the most damage or aim the best.

    Why would you prefer that?

    In my case it's pretty simple. I'd like to be able to hard carry even if my team sucks simply by shooting everyone on the other team before they can shoot me. What's your motivation?

    This is a team game and should require team play to win a match. If I didn't want to play a team game then I would play COD Free For All or some other game that has a mode like that.

    Yeah, and if it was more about DPS I guarantee it'd be an epic experience if you had 3 or 4 good DPSers on each team working together.


  • PC

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.

    I think we don't agree on what "carry" means. That's fine.

    Strengthening DPS will cause more and faster deaths and a corresponding buff of supports and everything else to attempt to compensate. I don't see this as a plus. I'd rather increase the TTK and make it more strategy based over who can shoot the fastest, apply the most damage or aim the best.

    Why would you prefer that?

    In my case it's pretty simple. I'd like to be able to hard carry even if my team sucks simply by shooting everyone on the other team before they can shoot me. What's your motivation?

    This is a team game and should require team play to win a match. If I didn't want to play a team game then I would play COD Free For All or some other game that has a mode like that.

    Yeah, and if it was more about DPS I guarantee it'd be an epic experience if you had 3 or 4 good DPSers on each team working together.

    You just said you wanted to carry because of trash players. Now you think you will have 3-4 good DPSers on each team?

    What's the point of buffing for "carry" if you can get good players on both teams?



  • @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.

    I think we don't agree on what "carry" means. That's fine.

    Strengthening DPS will cause more and faster deaths and a corresponding buff of supports and everything else to attempt to compensate. I don't see this as a plus. I'd rather increase the TTK and make it more strategy based over who can shoot the fastest, apply the most damage or aim the best.

    Why would you prefer that?

    In my case it's pretty simple. I'd like to be able to hard carry even if my team sucks simply by shooting everyone on the other team before they can shoot me. What's your motivation?

    This is a team game and should require team play to win a match. If I didn't want to play a team game then I would play COD Free For All or some other game that has a mode like that.

    Yeah, and if it was more about DPS I guarantee it'd be an epic experience if you had 3 or 4 good DPSers on each team working together.

    You just said you wanted to carry because of trash players. Now you think you will have 3-4 good DPSers on each team?

    What's the point of buffing for "carry" if you can get good players on both teams?

    Because the game will be more about aiming and avoiding getting shot than it will be about teamwork and ability use, which means if you're good at aiming and avoiding getting shot you'll be able to carry harder, especially if you can kill the enemy carry. Obviously if teams are totally unbalanced you'll have a harder time either way.


  • PC

    After reading this thread I'm glad paladins is the way it is now even with occasional bugs
    By the way it's quite the opposite, they are looking for ways to nerf cassie not to buff her or at least it was mentioned a while ago I dont know if they will end up nerfing her.



  • @ShogunPukin said in Buff Cassie:

    After reading this thread I'm glad paladins is the way it is now even with occasional bugs
    By the way it's quite the opposite, they are looking for ways to nerf cassie not to buff her or at least it was mentioned a while ago I dont know if they will end up nerfing her.

    Wouldn't surprise me. This is the same team that buffed Willo into her current state, allowed the double tank meta to become a thing even though it's obvious to everyone how unpopular playing tanks is, and figured the current state of hitboxes was okay for a competitive e sport. A skill based champion like Cassie probably has too much carry potential in their eyes.


  • PC

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.

    I think we don't agree on what "carry" means. That's fine.

    Strengthening DPS will cause more and faster deaths and a corresponding buff of supports and everything else to attempt to compensate. I don't see this as a plus. I'd rather increase the TTK and make it more strategy based over who can shoot the fastest, apply the most damage or aim the best.

    Why would you prefer that?

    In my case it's pretty simple. I'd like to be able to hard carry even if my team sucks simply by shooting everyone on the other team before they can shoot me. What's your motivation?

    This is a team game and should require team play to win a match. If I didn't want to play a team game then I would play COD Free For All or some other game that has a mode like that.

    Yeah, and if it was more about DPS I guarantee it'd be an epic experience if you had 3 or 4 good DPSers on each team working together.

    You just said you wanted to carry because of trash players. Now you think you will have 3-4 good DPSers on each team?

    What's the point of buffing for "carry" if you can get good players on both teams?

    Because the game will be more about aiming and avoiding getting shot than it will be about teamwork and ability use, which means if you're good at aiming and avoiding getting shot you'll be able to carry harder, especially if you can kill the enemy carry. Obviously if teams are totally unbalanced you'll have a harder time either way.

    This is a Hero Shooter, what you are asking for is an arena shooter. If you want to play an arena shooter may I recommend any of the Quake games or even that one free to play Halo clone with portals...

    I have some serious issues with your arguments, where the heck do I even begin... first off...

    Your argument about damage class taking complex skill and whatnot is absolute rubbish! This is coming from a High Platinum rank Drogoz and Cassie main.

    Damage does not need to worry about keeping their teammates and the healer alive as well as learning proper positioning and engagements like a Frontline does.

    Damage does not need anywhere near the map awareness and map knowledge that a flanker does in order to pick off stragglers or go for an unprotected healer.

    Damage doesn’t need to worry about managing their resources or CDs as hard as a healer does, neither do they have as much pressure on them to keep tabs on their teammates HP in a team fight as well as maintain awareness of their surroundings since they’re usually priority targets in a team fight.

    All damage usually has to worry about is doing as much damage as possible while dying the least they can. It is the most brain dead class in the game to play as and if you cannot properly play a Damage class then frankly I don’t think the FPS genre is for you, and this is me putting it as nicely as I possibly can.

    Secondly, I hope you realize that this game used to be a PC exclusive with the majority of the cast being projectile focused and those projectiles being far slower than they are now since k&w controla are far more precise than a controller for projectile heavy games...

    leading now couldn’t be any easier... trying to make more of the cast hitscan is just going to break the game beyond salvaging...

    Lastly, making this game a single class only game would cement its death. Casual is already a cesspool or people unwilling to play Tank or Healer and would rather play stupid comps
    like double flank or all damage causing people who wanna play seriously to have to endure a loss for no good reason...


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