Buff Cassie



  • @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.


  • PC

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.

    I think we don't agree on what "carry" means. That's fine.

    Strengthening DPS will cause more and faster deaths and a corresponding buff of supports and everything else to attempt to compensate. I don't see this as a plus. I'd rather increase the TTK and make it more strategy based over who can shoot the fastest, apply the most damage or aim the best.



  • @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.

    I think we don't agree on what "carry" means. That's fine.

    Strengthening DPS will cause more and faster deaths and a corresponding buff of supports and everything else to attempt to compensate. I don't see this as a plus. I'd rather increase the TTK and make it more strategy based over who can shoot the fastest, apply the most damage or aim the best.

    Why would you prefer that?

    In my case it's pretty simple. I'd like to be able to hard carry even if my team sucks simply by shooting everyone on the other team before they can shoot me. What's your motivation?


  • PC

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.

    I think we don't agree on what "carry" means. That's fine.

    Strengthening DPS will cause more and faster deaths and a corresponding buff of supports and everything else to attempt to compensate. I don't see this as a plus. I'd rather increase the TTK and make it more strategy based over who can shoot the fastest, apply the most damage or aim the best.

    Why would you prefer that?

    In my case it's pretty simple. I'd like to be able to hard carry even if my team sucks simply by shooting everyone on the other team before they can shoot me. What's your motivation?

    This is a team game and should require team play to win a match. If I didn't want to play a team game then I would play COD Free For All or some other game that has a mode like that.



  • @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.

    I think we don't agree on what "carry" means. That's fine.

    Strengthening DPS will cause more and faster deaths and a corresponding buff of supports and everything else to attempt to compensate. I don't see this as a plus. I'd rather increase the TTK and make it more strategy based over who can shoot the fastest, apply the most damage or aim the best.

    Why would you prefer that?

    In my case it's pretty simple. I'd like to be able to hard carry even if my team sucks simply by shooting everyone on the other team before they can shoot me. What's your motivation?

    This is a team game and should require team play to win a match. If I didn't want to play a team game then I would play COD Free For All or some other game that has a mode like that.

    Yeah, and if it was more about DPS I guarantee it'd be an epic experience if you had 3 or 4 good DPSers on each team working together.


  • PC

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.

    I think we don't agree on what "carry" means. That's fine.

    Strengthening DPS will cause more and faster deaths and a corresponding buff of supports and everything else to attempt to compensate. I don't see this as a plus. I'd rather increase the TTK and make it more strategy based over who can shoot the fastest, apply the most damage or aim the best.

    Why would you prefer that?

    In my case it's pretty simple. I'd like to be able to hard carry even if my team sucks simply by shooting everyone on the other team before they can shoot me. What's your motivation?

    This is a team game and should require team play to win a match. If I didn't want to play a team game then I would play COD Free For All or some other game that has a mode like that.

    Yeah, and if it was more about DPS I guarantee it'd be an epic experience if you had 3 or 4 good DPSers on each team working together.

    You just said you wanted to carry because of trash players. Now you think you will have 3-4 good DPSers on each team?

    What's the point of buffing for "carry" if you can get good players on both teams?



  • @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.

    I think we don't agree on what "carry" means. That's fine.

    Strengthening DPS will cause more and faster deaths and a corresponding buff of supports and everything else to attempt to compensate. I don't see this as a plus. I'd rather increase the TTK and make it more strategy based over who can shoot the fastest, apply the most damage or aim the best.

    Why would you prefer that?

    In my case it's pretty simple. I'd like to be able to hard carry even if my team sucks simply by shooting everyone on the other team before they can shoot me. What's your motivation?

    This is a team game and should require team play to win a match. If I didn't want to play a team game then I would play COD Free For All or some other game that has a mode like that.

    Yeah, and if it was more about DPS I guarantee it'd be an epic experience if you had 3 or 4 good DPSers on each team working together.

    You just said you wanted to carry because of trash players. Now you think you will have 3-4 good DPSers on each team?

    What's the point of buffing for "carry" if you can get good players on both teams?

    Because the game will be more about aiming and avoiding getting shot than it will be about teamwork and ability use, which means if you're good at aiming and avoiding getting shot you'll be able to carry harder, especially if you can kill the enemy carry. Obviously if teams are totally unbalanced you'll have a harder time either way.


  • PC

    After reading this thread I'm glad paladins is the way it is now even with occasional bugs
    By the way it's quite the opposite, they are looking for ways to nerf cassie not to buff her or at least it was mentioned a while ago I dont know if they will end up nerfing her.



  • @ShogunPukin said in Buff Cassie:

    After reading this thread I'm glad paladins is the way it is now even with occasional bugs
    By the way it's quite the opposite, they are looking for ways to nerf cassie not to buff her or at least it was mentioned a while ago I dont know if they will end up nerfing her.

    Wouldn't surprise me. This is the same team that buffed Willo into her current state, allowed the double tank meta to become a thing even though it's obvious to everyone how unpopular playing tanks is, and figured the current state of hitboxes was okay for a competitive e sport. A skill based champion like Cassie probably has too much carry potential in their eyes.


  • PC

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.

    I think we don't agree on what "carry" means. That's fine.

    Strengthening DPS will cause more and faster deaths and a corresponding buff of supports and everything else to attempt to compensate. I don't see this as a plus. I'd rather increase the TTK and make it more strategy based over who can shoot the fastest, apply the most damage or aim the best.

    Why would you prefer that?

    In my case it's pretty simple. I'd like to be able to hard carry even if my team sucks simply by shooting everyone on the other team before they can shoot me. What's your motivation?

    This is a team game and should require team play to win a match. If I didn't want to play a team game then I would play COD Free For All or some other game that has a mode like that.

    Yeah, and if it was more about DPS I guarantee it'd be an epic experience if you had 3 or 4 good DPSers on each team working together.

    You just said you wanted to carry because of trash players. Now you think you will have 3-4 good DPSers on each team?

    What's the point of buffing for "carry" if you can get good players on both teams?

    Because the game will be more about aiming and avoiding getting shot than it will be about teamwork and ability use, which means if you're good at aiming and avoiding getting shot you'll be able to carry harder, especially if you can kill the enemy carry. Obviously if teams are totally unbalanced you'll have a harder time either way.

    This is a Hero Shooter, what you are asking for is an arena shooter. If you want to play an arena shooter may I recommend any of the Quake games or even that one free to play Halo clone with portals...

    I have some serious issues with your arguments, where the heck do I even begin... first off...

    Your argument about damage class taking complex skill and whatnot is absolute rubbish! This is coming from a High Platinum rank Drogoz and Cassie main.

    Damage does not need to worry about keeping their teammates and the healer alive as well as learning proper positioning and engagements like a Frontline does.

    Damage does not need anywhere near the map awareness and map knowledge that a flanker does in order to pick off stragglers or go for an unprotected healer.

    Damage doesn’t need to worry about managing their resources or CDs as hard as a healer does, neither do they have as much pressure on them to keep tabs on their teammates HP in a team fight as well as maintain awareness of their surroundings since they’re usually priority targets in a team fight.

    All damage usually has to worry about is doing as much damage as possible while dying the least they can. It is the most brain dead class in the game to play as and if you cannot properly play a Damage class then frankly I don’t think the FPS genre is for you, and this is me putting it as nicely as I possibly can.

    Secondly, I hope you realize that this game used to be a PC exclusive with the majority of the cast being projectile focused and those projectiles being far slower than they are now since k&w controla are far more precise than a controller for projectile heavy games...

    leading now couldn’t be any easier... trying to make more of the cast hitscan is just going to break the game beyond salvaging...

    Lastly, making this game a single class only game would cement its death. Casual is already a cesspool or people unwilling to play Tank or Healer and would rather play stupid comps
    like double flank or all damage causing people who wanna play seriously to have to endure a loss for no good reason...



  • @REDBelmont456 said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.

    I think we don't agree on what "carry" means. That's fine.

    Strengthening DPS will cause more and faster deaths and a corresponding buff of supports and everything else to attempt to compensate. I don't see this as a plus. I'd rather increase the TTK and make it more strategy based over who can shoot the fastest, apply the most damage or aim the best.

    Why would you prefer that?

    In my case it's pretty simple. I'd like to be able to hard carry even if my team sucks simply by shooting everyone on the other team before they can shoot me. What's your motivation?

    This is a team game and should require team play to win a match. If I didn't want to play a team game then I would play COD Free For All or some other game that has a mode like that.

    Yeah, and if it was more about DPS I guarantee it'd be an epic experience if you had 3 or 4 good DPSers on each team working together.

    You just said you wanted to carry because of trash players. Now you think you will have 3-4 good DPSers on each team?

    What's the point of buffing for "carry" if you can get good players on both teams?

    Because the game will be more about aiming and avoiding getting shot than it will be about teamwork and ability use, which means if you're good at aiming and avoiding getting shot you'll be able to carry harder, especially if you can kill the enemy carry. Obviously if teams are totally unbalanced you'll have a harder time either way.

    This is a Hero Shooter, what you are asking for is an arena shooter. If you want to play an arena shooter may I recommend any of the Quake games or even that one free to play Halo clone with portals...

    I have some serious issues with your arguments, where the heck do I even begin... first off...

    Your argument about damage class taking complex skill and whatnot is absolute rubbish! This is coming from a High Platinum rank Drogoz and Cassie main.

    Damage does not need to worry about keeping their teammates and the healer alive as well as learning proper positioning and engagements like a Frontline does.

    Damage does not need anywhere near the map awareness and map knowledge that a flanker does in order to pick off stragglers or go for an unprotected healer.

    Damage doesn’t need to worry about managing their resources or CDs as hard as a healer does, neither do they need to have as much pressure on them to keep tabs on their teammates HP in a team fight as well as maintain awareness of their surroundings since they’re usually priority targets in a team fight.

    All damage usually has to worry about is doing as much damage as possible while dying the least they can. It is the most brain dead class in the game to play as and if you cannot properly play a Damage class then frankly I don’t think the FPS genre is for you, and this is me putting it as nicely as I possibly can.

    Secondly, I hope you realize that this game used to be a PC exclusive with the majority of the cast being projectile focused and those projectiles being far slower than they are now since k&w controla are far more precise than a controller for projectile heavy games...

    leading now couldn’t be any easier... trying to make more of the cast hitscan is just going to break the game beyond salvaging...

    Lastly, making this game a single class only game would cement its death. Casual is already a cesspool or people unwilling to play Tank or Healer and would rather play stupid comps
    like double flank or all damage causing people who wanna play seriously to have to endure a loss for no good reason...

    I don't know how to format this response since you raised so many points and I want to address them point by point.

    HERO SHOOTERS vs. ARENA SHOOTERS: True enough. That doesn't mean anything much though. Arena shooters tend to be in an arena full of powerups. Hero shooters tend to have lots of heroes you can play. Beyond that the sky's the limit. I'm not advocating we switch to a deathmatch mode with a map full of powerups although who knows, maybe powerups would create a cool gameplay experience. It's never really been tried.

    DROGOZ AND CASSIE: Well, I one tricked Drogoz to level 150, and after that Cassie became my favorite champion. Recently though I've been feeling that Strix is the best champion, and today I've decided I like playing Lian a whole heckuva lot more than I like playing Cassie. Missing half your shots at distance because you predicted which way they were going to move wrong? Not fun at all. Some "sniper" Cassie is.

    SKILL OF A DAMAGE CLASS: Well, it takes a lot of aim, and compared to tanks it's a lot easier to die. If I designed this game, it'd take a whole heckuva lot more aim, and movement tech like rocket jumping and strafe running besides that. But that's besides the point. If you take your basic tank, he doesn't have to aim half as much because he does all his engagements up close. He also doesn't have to conserve his health nearly as much because he has so much more of it. As for healers well, I'll just say they don't do a whole lot of shooting in this game. I don't know. Personally, I've decided I don't think healers have a place in hero shooters, because they're just so overpowered just by their very nature, while not really pulling their weight in terms of the action aspect of the game. Sure it takes brainpower, but it's also incredibly powerful and doesn't require much mechanical ability.

    DAMAGES VS FLANKS: Please. Flanks like Maeve and Evie are literally just damages with 10x the mobility. If those classes weren't little girls I might actually main them myself. Other flanks are fairly useless.

    INTELLIGENCE OF A DAMAGE CLASS: For a damage main you don't seem to have a very high estimation of the role you play. You have to keep your teammates alive and kill all the enemies to carry successfully. Given how weak damages are in this game, that's pretty tough in a lot of situations.

    NOSTALGIA: I don't really care. The game should probably be trying to break even more boundaries than it already has considering its waning popularity and the failure of HiRez's other project, Realm Royale.

    PROJECTILES VS HITSCAN: Projectiles are fun in certain situations. If you take Quake, the rocket launcher is fun up close for a couple reasons. It has massive splash damage. It has massive direct damage. It has massive knockback so you can easily chain shots together because you can predict where they'll land from the first rocket's knockback. Cassie and for that matter Drogoz have none of these qualities. They just aren't nearly as fun or as powerful as a good Lian Strix or even burst mode Viktor player, who can just do twitch shots from across the map. There's a place for projectiles, however most FPS players want to kill things reliably and easily as long as they are landing their shots.

    THE POPULARITY OF DAMAGES: Well why do you think DPS is so popular? Probably because it's the most fun and skill rewarding class. Who wants to spend all game healing people? Who wants to spend all game squatting on the point absorbing damage and waiting for enemies to contest it with you? Most people in this game, Overwatch, and TF2 are DPS mains, and its the way the devs of these games are trying to force people to play healer and tank that is causing them to run into problems. Just look at the fiasco with Overwatch's GOATs meta and the new role queue disaster. Or to look closer to home, spend any time in ranked. Tons of people fail to pick 2nd tank, and this causes mass outrage because of how artificially important the role has been made to be. If you play casual, you almost never see 2nd tank, because it just isn't that fun to play. I don't see why tanks or healers should even be necessary. Aren't 95% of us here just to shoot things and have a good time? Why complicate things with these braindead monstrosities?


  • PC

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @REDBelmont456 said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    @DaddyOoker There already are carry champions. They are Barik, Inara, Atlas, Khan, Ash, and Makoa. That's why these champions are characteristically first picked and banned. If we strengthen DPS, we can get carry champions whose ability to perform is based on their ability to aim and avoid being shot, rather than their ability to hold down the point for ages at a time. And mind, I only mean DPS that actually requires good aim to do well with. Not for example Zhin.

    I think we don't agree on what "carry" means. That's fine.

    Strengthening DPS will cause more and faster deaths and a corresponding buff of supports and everything else to attempt to compensate. I don't see this as a plus. I'd rather increase the TTK and make it more strategy based over who can shoot the fastest, apply the most damage or aim the best.

    Why would you prefer that?

    In my case it's pretty simple. I'd like to be able to hard carry even if my team sucks simply by shooting everyone on the other team before they can shoot me. What's your motivation?

    This is a team game and should require team play to win a match. If I didn't want to play a team game then I would play COD Free For All or some other game that has a mode like that.

    Yeah, and if it was more about DPS I guarantee it'd be an epic experience if you had 3 or 4 good DPSers on each team working together.

    You just said you wanted to carry because of trash players. Now you think you will have 3-4 good DPSers on each team?

    What's the point of buffing for "carry" if you can get good players on both teams?

    Because the game will be more about aiming and avoiding getting shot than it will be about teamwork and ability use, which means if you're good at aiming and avoiding getting shot you'll be able to carry harder, especially if you can kill the enemy carry. Obviously if teams are totally unbalanced you'll have a harder time either way.

    This is a Hero Shooter, what you are asking for is an arena shooter. If you want to play an arena shooter may I recommend any of the Quake games or even that one free to play Halo clone with portals...

    I have some serious issues with your arguments, where the heck do I even begin... first off...

    Your argument about damage class taking complex skill and whatnot is absolute rubbish! This is coming from a High Platinum rank Drogoz and Cassie main.

    Damage does not need to worry about keeping their teammates and the healer alive as well as learning proper positioning and engagements like a Frontline does.

    Damage does not need anywhere near the map awareness and map knowledge that a flanker does in order to pick off stragglers or go for an unprotected healer.

    Damage doesn’t need to worry about managing their resources or CDs as hard as a healer does, neither do they need to have as much pressure on them to keep tabs on their teammates HP in a team fight as well as maintain awareness of their surroundings since they’re usually priority targets in a team fight.

    All damage usually has to worry about is doing as much damage as possible while dying the least they can. It is the most brain dead class in the game to play as and if you cannot properly play a Damage class then frankly I don’t think the FPS genre is for you, and this is me putting it as nicely as I possibly can.

    Secondly, I hope you realize that this game used to be a PC exclusive with the majority of the cast being projectile focused and those projectiles being far slower than they are now since k&w controla are far more precise than a controller for projectile heavy games...

    leading now couldn’t be any easier... trying to make more of the cast hitscan is just going to break the game beyond salvaging...

    Lastly, making this game a single class only game would cement its death. Casual is already a cesspool or people unwilling to play Tank or Healer and would rather play stupid comps
    like double flank or all damage causing people who wanna play seriously to have to endure a loss for no good reason...

    I don't know how to format this response since you raised so many points and I want to address them point by point.

    HERO SHOOTERS vs. ARENA SHOOTERS: True enough. That doesn't mean anything much though. Arena shooters tend to be in an arena full of powerups. Hero shooters tend to have lots of heroes you can play. Beyond that the sky's the limit. I'm not advocating we switch to a deathmatch mode with a map full of powerups although who knows, maybe powerups would create a cool gameplay experience. It's never really been tried.

    DROGOZ AND CASSIE: Well, I one tricked Drogoz to level 150, and after that Cassie became my favorite champion. Recently though I've been feeling that Strix is the best champion, and today I've decided I like playing Lian a whole heckuva lot more than I like playing Cassie. Missing half your shots at distance because you predicted which way they were going to move wrong? Not fun at all. Some "sniper" Cassie is.

    SKILL OF A DAMAGE CLASS: Well, it takes a lot of aim, and compared to tanks it's a lot easier to die. If I designed this game, it'd take a whole heckuva lot more aim, and movement tech like rocket jumping and strafe running besides that. But that's besides the point. If you take your basic tank, he doesn't have to aim half as much because he does all his engagements up close. He also doesn't have to conserve his health nearly as much because he has so much more of it. As for healers well, I'll just say they don't do a whole lot of shooting in this game. I don't know. Personally, I've decided I don't think healers have a place in hero shooters, because they're just so overpowered just by their very nature, while not really pulling their weight in terms of the action aspect of the game. Sure it takes brainpower, but it's also incredibly powerful and doesn't require much mechanical ability.

    DAMAGES VS FLANKS: Please. Flanks like Maeve and Evie are literally just damages with 10x the mobility. If those classes weren't little girls I might actually main them myself. Other flanks are fairly useless.

    INTELLIGENCE OF A DAMAGE CLASS: For a damage main you don't seem to have a very high estimation of the role you play. You have to keep your teammates alive and kill all the enemies to carry successfully. Given how weak damages are in this game, that's pretty tough in a lot of situations.

    NOSTALGIA: I don't really care. The game should probably be trying to break even more boundaries than it already has considering its waning popularity and the failure of HiRez's other project, Realm Royale.

    PROJECTILES VS HITSCAN: Projectiles are fun in certain situations. If you take Quake, the rocket launcher is fun up close for a couple reasons. It has massive splash damage. It has massive direct damage. It has massive knockback so you can easily chain shots together because you can predict where they'll land from the first rocket's knockback. Cassie and for that matter Drogoz have none of these qualities. They just aren't nearly as fun or as powerful as a good Lian Strix or even burst mode Viktor player, who can just do twitch shots from across the map. There's a place for projectiles, however most FPS players want to kill things reliably and easily as long as they are landing their shots.

    THE POPULARITY OF DAMAGES: Well why do you think DPS is so popular? Probably because it's the most fun and skill rewarding class. Who wants to spend all game healing people? Who wants to spend all game squatting on the point absorbing damage and waiting for enemies to contest it with you? Most people in this game, Overwatch, and TF2 are DPS mains, and its the way the devs of these games are trying to force people to play healer and tank that is causing them to run into problems. Just look at the fiasco with Overwatch's GOATs meta and the new role queue disaster. Or to look closer to home, spend any time in ranked. Tons of people fail to pick 2nd tank, and this causes mass outrage because of how artificially important the role has been made to be. If you play casual, you almost never see 2nd tank, because it just isn't that fun to play. I don't see why tanks or healers should even be necessary. Aren't 95% of us here just to shoot things and have a good time? Why complicate things with these braindead monstrosities?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhckuhUxcgA
    As soon as I saw the words "Damage" and "Weakest Class" in the same sentence you pretty much lost me... I'm honestly not even gonna try to reasonably debate with this, especially since from what I've read it honestly sounds like you don't even wanna play hero shooters at all anymore, let alone continue to enjoy Paladins...

    May I suggest playing something else for awhile if you're burnt out of it, that way your suggestions actually make sense instead of sounding like you want Paladins to turn into another Mindless shooter where all anyone plays is TDM... There's a reason that playlist is dead in Paladins btw...



  • So you admit you're a minor antagonist in this story arc and I am not only the protagonist, but also secretly a superhero, then.

    Also, again, if damages were the strongest class, tanks wouldn't be universally first picked/banned.


  • PC

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    So you admit you're a minor antagonist in this story arc and I am not only the protagonist, but also secretly a superhero, then.

    Also, again, if damages were the strongest class, tanks wouldn't be universally first picked/banned.

    More like I know when I am arguing with a brick wall and no amount of reason will convince you otherwise of your counter intuitive arguments, I mean seriously, go back tomorrow and read all of what you just posted and you're effectively arguing that you want paladins to play like not paladins because you like how other FPSs that are not paladins play... why not play those then?...

    Who the heck is gonna complain about playing a healer or tank in a hero shooter where you can't swap mid match in order to fill a role to help your team win... it's idiotic!


  • PC

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    Also, again, if damages were the strongest class, tanks wouldn't be universally first picked/banned.

    Also, this line legit makes zero sense. There are two other classes in the game, and nobody ever said damage was the strongest class, just far from the weakest...



  • This whole thread borders on giving Cassie hitscan.

    You said it yourself, you enjoy playing Lian for the specific range advantage hitscan brings, and they made lian to be hitscan cassie.
    The utilities in how their weapons fuction describes what locations that character should play in, and what targets they ought to fight aginst.
    Playing Cassie as a sniper is not the best way to play cassie due to every reason you have listed, and yes if you are trying to snipe strix, eat a bullet, if you can't get to cover, die.

    But you know what if we are going to have hitscan projectiles we may as well give the same to other champions, sha lin hitscan, grover hit scan, drogoz hit scan, oh how about maeve, her projectiles are cancer to land wouldn't she be more effective as hitscan and yeah that will not totally mess up the balence of things.

    So far this thread does not even factor in cassie power when combined in synergy with other and against other characters. I find the thread goes on about best damage and being out ranged by a character with a sniper rifle who can stafe dodge projectiles, which I find is just ignorance to charactet strengths abd weaknesses.
    Cassie has the burst and displacement to fight Strix better then majority of the damage already.

    To go on about who gets banned majority of games it a worthless argument. Reason tanks are banned often is team synergy and defence, or their ability to make a pick. You remove Makoa and suddenly it is safer to have Viktor, Torv, Trya and so on as there is less displacement avalible.

    Cassie's ult is busted in high elo, and the list of team advantages it brings overides many other ults as a priority pick when everyone can work off it.

    My only contructive point would be that single target projectiles should passively deal more damage over range, but they are mitigating this through talents.



  • @REDBelmont456 said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    So you admit you're a minor antagonist in this story arc and I am not only the protagonist, but also secretly a superhero, then.

    Also, again, if damages were the strongest class, tanks wouldn't be universally first picked/banned.

    More like I know when I am arguing with a brick wall and no amount of reason will convince you otherwise of your counter intuitive arguments, I mean seriously, go back tomorrow and read all of what you just posted and you're effectively arguing that you want paladins to play like not paladins because you like how other FPSs that are not paladins play... why not play those then?...

    Who the heck is gonna complain about playing a healer or tank in a hero shooter where you can't swap mid match in order to fill a role to help your team win... it's idiotic!

    I don't know how to reply to this. The standard refrain for a Paladins fan when I criticize their game is to tell me to go play COD instead. The standard refrain for an Overwatch fan is to tell me to go play CS instead. Neither argument makes any sense.

    @Dusklicious said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut said in Buff Cassie:

    Also, again, if damages were the strongest class, tanks wouldn't be universally first picked/banned.

    Also, this line legit makes zero sense. There are two other classes in the game, and nobody ever said damage was the strongest class, just far from the weakest...

    Okay, let's say DPS is stronger than healers. Possibly. It's still badly weaker than tanks, and also healers' strength is disproportionate to how many people actually want to play healer.

    @AYYDIMITRI said in Buff Cassie:

    This whole thread borders on giving Cassie hitscan.

    You said it yourself, you enjoy playing Lian for the specific range advantage hitscan brings, and they made lian to be hitscan cassie.
    The utilities in how their weapons fuction describes what locations that character should play in, and what targets they ought to fight aginst.
    Playing Cassie as a sniper is not the best way to play cassie due to every reason you have listed, and yes if you are trying to snipe strix, eat a bullet, if you can't get to cover, die.

    But you know what if we are going to have hitscan projectiles we may as well give the same to other champions, sha lin hitscan, grover hit scan, drogoz hit scan, oh how about maeve, her projectiles are cancer to land wouldn't she be more effective as hitscan and yeah that will not totally mess up the balence of things.

    So far this thread does not even factor in cassie power when combined in synergy with other and against other characters. I find the thread goes on about best damage and being out ranged by a character with a sniper rifle who can stafe dodge projectiles, which I find is just ignorance to charactet strengths abd weaknesses.
    Cassie has the burst and displacement to fight Strix better then majority of the damage already.

    To go on about who gets banned majority of games it a worthless argument. Reason tanks are banned often is team synergy and defence, or their ability to make a pick. You remove Makoa and suddenly it is safer to have Viktor, Torv, Trya and so on as there is less displacement avalible.

    Cassie's ult is busted in high elo, and the list of team advantages it brings overides many other ults as a priority pick when everyone can work off it.

    My only contructive point would be that single target projectiles should passively deal more damage over range, but they are mitigating this through talents.

    OPENING STATEMENT: The thread literally's first line is saying to make Cassie hitscan. Lian is not nearly as cool a character as Cassie, has boring abilities, and has crazy damage falloff. Plus there's no harm of having characters that are similar to each other.

    HOW TO PLAY CASSIE: Cool. I'll just one trick Strix then, or rather I'll just not play this game because having to one trick a sniper isn't fun. Strix can literally out DPS Cassie at close range pretty easily. That's pretty absurd. The main advantage snipers should have is their scope, which makes aiming at a distance a lot easier.

    OTHER CHAMPIONS: Another issue for another day. Sha's a horrible champion. Grover's a horrible champion. As someone who one tricked Drogoz to level 150, I hate playing him in most situations because usually hitscan players don't have too much trouble keeping him confined to a single corner of the map. Maeve's projectiles are definitely not at all fun in any way, but I think that entire character should be deleted from the game and always have since I was a Drogoz one trick back in open beta trying to hit her midair with my rockets.

    SYNERGY: whoa awesome, synergy, so cool. I don't care too much about that stuff. If I have terrible teammates who fail to take advantage of my synergy, it doesn't matter that much. Which is why Strix is such a well designed champion, because he doesn't require synergy. He just requires good aim and tactics.

    CASSIE VS STRIX 2: True enough. As a Strix player Cassie's have gotten me a number of times. All that said, fighting a great Strix as Cassie is insanely frustrating. I don't know the numbers, but they seem to have about equivalent damage at close range with Unauthorized Use vs. Big Game. All that and Strix can turn invisible, blind you, is hitscan, and has higher poke damage PLUS if he gets a headshot there's absolutely no way to out DPS him. Cassie should 100% out DPS at close range. Strix's only advantage should be his scope allowing him to function better at a distance than other rifle champions. This game shouldn't be like CS where sniper rifles are brokenly powerful howitzers.

    WHY ARE TANKS BANNED: Yes, tanks are banned because of how good they are. No, that is not a worthless argument. You just listed a bunch of ways how tanks are good. Everyone knows how good tanks are in this game. That's why when people tryhard for comp they suddenly start playing two tanks and start whining if you don't play two tank. If you gave people the option, most people would never even touch tank. Buffing damages like Cassie would be a good way to deal with this power imbalance.

    CASSIE'S ULT: Yeah, ults suck. But Cassie's ult is one of the least OP ones. Compared to Ash ult, Khan ult, Lian ult, Drogoz ult, BK ult, Term ult, etc etc Cassie ult is harmless.

    BUFFING PROJECTILES: That wouldn't address the point at all. Have you guys ever heard the phrase "projectile vomit"? That's Cassie right now. You're sitting up top on Splitstone trying to shoot the enemy point tank, who is just spamming directional keys mindlessly. You miss. You miss. You miss again. You keep missing. You miss over and over again because there's is no real way to reliably predict enemy movement's at that range. So you decide to play Lian and Strix instead, and you don't miss, because they're hitscan. It's a lot more fun.


  • PC

    @taikonaut Friend, I don't think you understand this thing called "roles". Do you understand why a tank has a high HP pool and has things that focus on CC, Defense and Damage Mitigation? Because the tank's Job IN a Hero Shooter, like in a MOBA, is to get on the objective or to be the main face the enemy team sees and do their best to protect their team as well as play the objective ALL WHILE staying alive.

    Tanks/Frontlines will be taking damage and CC from up to 5 enemy heroes at once which means if their HP pool was any less they'd literally blow up in seconds and the healer couldn't do a thing about it making their role almost moot...

    Tanks, unlike damage, don't have the best toolkit to chase or to kill things quickly, only to harass and maybe finish off a weakened enemy at most. Anytime I play a tank (unless our damage/flanks suck that badly) I rarely have more than sigle digit eliminations because as a tank my job is not to get kills, it's to stay on the point or mitigate damage to my team.

    The way you're arguing here is making it sound as if a tank can beat out every other class in a 1v1 situation which is utter hogwash! Worse yet is you're arguing balancing classes in the merits of fun vs balance and this should never EVER even be part of the same sentence. Is it fun to be Overpowered? Absolutely! IT DOES NOT mean it will be balanced for the game in question...

    "WHY ARE TANKS BANNED: Yes, tanks are banned because of how good they are. No, that is not a worthless argument. You just listed a bunch of ways how tanks are good. Everyone knows how good tanks are in this game. That's why when people tryhard for comp they suddenly start playing two tanks and start whining if you don't play two tank. If you gave people the option, most people would never even touch tank. Buffing damages like Cassie would be a good way to deal with this power imbalance."

    Tanks are NOT OP, they are a VITAL part of what makes a Hero Shooter or MOBA what it is! Get your head out of where ever you stuck it and think rationally here. They are important in a team comp because they're the ones that are going to be eating damage for the team, they're going to be initiating, pulling, peeling, and trying not to die so as the teamfight doesn't fall apart when there's no one else that can eat damage from 5 sources at once...

    I'll say it once and I'll say it again... If you're burnt out of Hero Shooters like Paladins I strongly suggest playing something else for awhile as you'll get your fix that way. Trying to change Paladins and turning it into Dee Pee Ess the game is not going to make the game more fun NOR is it going to bring people back... all it will do is scare the last of the people playing it atm, and kill it dead...



  • @REDBelmont456 said in Buff Cassie:

    @taikonaut Friend, I don't think you understand this thing called "roles". Do you understand why a tank has a high HP pool and has things that focus on CC, Defense and Damage Mitigation? Because the tank's Job IN a Hero Shooter, like in a MOBA, is to get on the objective or to be the main face the enemy team sees and do their best to protect their team as well as play the objective ALL WHILE staying alive.

    Tanks/Frontlines will be taking damage and CC from up to 5 enemy heroes at once which means if their HP pool was any less they'd literally blow up in seconds and the healer couldn't do a thing about it making their role almost moot...

    Tanks, unlike damage, don't have the best toolkit to chase or to kill things quickly, only to harass and maybe finish off a weakened enemy at most. Anytime I play a tank (unless our damage/flanks suck that badly) I rarely have more than sigle digit eliminations because as a tank my job is not to get kills, it's to stay on the point or mitigate damage to my team.

    The way you're arguing here is making it sound as if a tank can beat out every other class in a 1v1 situation which is utter hogwash! Worse yet is you're arguing balancing classes in the merits of fun vs balance and this should never EVER even be part of the same sentence. Is it fun to be Overpowered? Absolutely! IT DOES NOT mean it will be balanced for the game in question...

    "WHY ARE TANKS BANNED: Yes, tanks are banned because of how good they are. No, that is not a worthless argument. You just listed a bunch of ways how tanks are good. Everyone knows how good tanks are in this game. That's why when people tryhard for comp they suddenly start playing two tanks and start whining if you don't play two tank. If you gave people the option, most people would never even touch tank. Buffing damages like Cassie would be a good way to deal with this power imbalance."

    Tanks are NOT OP, they are a VITAL part of what makes a Hero Shooter or MOBA what it is! Get your head out of where ever you stuck it and think rationally here. They are important in a team comp because they're the ones that are going to be eating damage for the team, they're going to be initiating, pulling, peeling, and trying not to die so as the teamfight doesn't fall apart when there's no one else that can eat damage from 5 sources at once...

    I'll say it once and I'll say it again... If you're burnt out of Hero Shooters like Paladins I strongly suggest playing something else for awhile as you'll get your fix that way. Trying to change Paladins and turning it into Dee Pee Ess the game is not going to make the game more fun NOR is it going to bring people back... all it will do is scare the last of the people playing it atm, and kill it dead...

    THE ROLE OF TANKS: Okay, tanks serve a role. Is that role good for the game? Different question. Tanks aren't fun to fight against. Tanks are the ones that capture the point, which is what wins the game. Tanks don't require any special aiming abilities thanks to their design and the game's design. Tanks aren't fun to play as, nor are their character designs any good. All that stacks up to create the imbalance between how popular the class is, and how important the class is to winning.

    Same story in TF2 except that game's a bit better about it. Bear in mind TF2's two or three times as popular as Paladins despite being a 2007 game. Without heavies and medics it's awfully hard to push the payload. At the same time, you often run into this problem: no one wants to play heavy or medic. Does that sound like good game design to you? Not to me. Meanwhile on the other end of the scale with Overwatch, by the late stage of the game everyone was just playing tanks and medics because all that matters in these games is point presence, and tanks and medics can deathblob on the point making it impossible for damages to do anything about it with their infinite health and sustain. So they are actually forcing pro players to pick DPS in that game, even though DPS is by far and away the most popular class to play among casual players. It's just awful game design and is a big part of why none of these three games have been a successful organic E Sport the way MOBA or CSGO was. It just isn't very exciting playing tank or healer, or watching tank or healer, which is why everyone adores Rockmonkey and Isbittenner but doesn't really care about tank players. At the same time, they've made tanks and healers so important that you just can't win the game without over half of them fulfilling that role.

    As for Cassie well, she's just not very fun to play. It's like if your only gun in Quake was the plasma gun. It's a slow moving projectile with zero splash damage. Drogoz isn't very fun either for that matter. You end up missing most of your shots. It's just an awful experience to be honest. It's a shame Lian's such an awful character with so much damage falloff or I would probably just one trick her.


  • PC

    Dude something being fun or unfun is not a solid argument because that's pretty subjective. For example I enjoy playing frontlines and playing against them and I'm not the only one, honestly don't argue based on your tastes because not everyone thinks the same way than you.


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