Enough with the childlike champions



  • @Rauyne said in Enough with the childlike champions:

    @taikonaut

    You should read some of the Lore as the character Voices are representive of their Character and not just slapped in there because they wanted it to be. Also, how is someone's color palette going to determine someone's age/maturity.

    Maeve-Grew up as a thief, so obviously she's been in some shady business.
    Evie-Was kicked out from her own village and Lore hints that she annihilated her village because of it.
    Cassie-Cassie joined the fight because people of her village did, however a curse on Cassie had to be removed first by an Oracle, Cassie is very naive, which is why her character is more upbeat
    Lian-Lianis nobility, she also created a plan to make her the heiress of the Ruby Throne. Lian is nobility so the snottiness suites her character very well.

    If she's a "shady" "thief" why is she a short little midget with bright pink and cyan color schemes? And why is she constantly jumping around throwing daggers at people instead of lurking in the shadows?

    EVIE: Great, sounds exactly like the sort of temper tantrum I would expect from this baby-tier character. Evie isn't cool, she is difficult to play, and she's awful to fight against.

    CASSIE: I don't think of Cassie as naive, I think she's just a competent warrior maiden which naturally is why she's so optimistic.

    LIAN: Nah. You can have arrogant characters that are charismatic. There is a foulness to Lian's personality which absolutely irks me. Her galactic scion voicepack does a good job of making her sound both aristocratic and well-bred. Her default voice pack sounds meanspirited and stupid, to be frank, and doesn't have any of the grace that I would think a noblewoman would have. Cassie sounds easily more noble than Lian's default voice pack, or god forbid the beach voice pack. And don't give me any guff about having uncharismatic characters, uncharismatic characters are poorly designed characters.

    I mean seriously Lian's default voicepack sounds like she's ticked off all the time, which is not what I would expect of a princess.



  • @taikonaut

    Maeve:The jacket Maeve wears was stolen from the Magistrate. Color schemes have nothing to do with the characters, it's irrelevent.

    Evie:Sounds like your grips with Evie are based on your own skill level with the Champion. Evie is difficult to play, but rewarding and fun to most players. Evie isn't awful to fight against if you know what you're doing.

    Cassie:Cassie is naive, Cassie lived in her village all her life, mostly due to the curse. She has no real world experience, all she knows is people from her village are leaving to fight the Magistrate and she decides to join, once the curse is lifted.

    Lian:Lian is meanspirited, it is in her nature. She paved her path with blood after all. It's Lian's character, it sticks to the Lore.

    Before you judge a Champion based on their sound pack or personality, you should read up on the available Lore. It's on the Wiki, and each Lore isn't very long. It will help you with your narrow-mindedness and allow the realm of Paladins to be a bit more clearer.



  • @Rauyne said in Enough with the childlike champions:

    @taikonaut

    Maeve:The jacket Maeve wears was stolen from the Magistrate. Color schemes have nothing to do with the characters, it's irrelevent.

    Evie:Sounds like your grips with Evie are based on your own skill level with the Champion. Evie is difficult to play, but rewarding and fun to most players. Evie isn't awful to fight against if you know what you're doing.

    Cassie:Cassie is naive, Cassie lived in her village all her life, mostly due to the curse. She has no real world experience, all she knows is people from her village are leaving to fight the Magistrate and she decides to join, once the curse is lifted.

    Lian:Lian is meanspirited, it is in her nature. She paved her path with blood after all. It's Lian's character, it sticks to the Lore.

    Before you judge a Champion based on their sound pack or personality, you should read up on the available Lore. It's on the Wiki, and each Lore isn't very long. It will help you with your narrow-mindedness and allow the realm of Paladins to be a bit more clearer.

    "Color schemes have nothing to do with the characters, it's irrelevent." 😔 I have no idea where you got that notion.

    Evie it's true I'm not a great Evie player. That said, it's just not fun playing a short ranged champion. It requires a certain amount of energy that I don't have in me, and you get punished hard. The only champion I enjoy fighting a good Evie with is Strix or I guess Sha Lin, because those are the only champions that out DPS her. It's stupid how broken she is, with the ability to teleport everywhere all the time while everyone else is stuck on the ground. And again her character is so stupid. A spoiled, naughty, brat of a witch, with the color baby blue as her main significant visual feature. It'd be one thing if she was actually attractive, but she has the proportions of a 10 year old, so it's just a rotten character through and through. I like mobility like that in Quake or Urban Terror, where it lets you go fast but is easily predicted and countered by people who can aim well. Teleporting isn't that fun to fight. That said, only metaslaves play Evie because like I said she just isn't that fun, or an appealing character. Being restricted to slow moving rockets and having to ratchet your mobility up to 11 to accomplish anything is sort of like biking up a steep hill in 11th gear.

    Lian: not a charismatic character. Everything from her auto aim to her ult to her awful ugly voice is just annoying, stupid, and unlikeable. Cassie is a total babe who requires finesse to pull off. The only thing Lian's got going for her is being the only proper hitscan carry in the game, since Strix is a sniper. I love playing Lian for her gameplay, but her personality is awful, and like I said her abilities are just braindead and overpowered. They really could have done a better job on this character. I don't want to play an angry mean spoiled princess, it's just not a good look. If she was a nice spoiled princess, or a tyrannical military ruler, those are character designs that can appeal to your average gamer. Even if she was a tyrannical princess, that'd be pretty epic if executed with care. But she just seems to be in a sour mood, which isn't really appealing. I always feel embarrassed when using the default lian voice pack to VHS as it's one of the most offputting voicepacks in the game due to its attitude problem.

    Lore: not really relevant compared to the actual in game characteristics of the character.


  • Moderator

    Please refrain from making statements about the sexual behaviour of others or this thread will be Locked.



  • @TangAce said in Enough with the childlike champions:

    maeve is 19, she looks like a kid cause she's a tigron that's all

    Maeve doesn't look like a kid. It's a typical adult face. Small eyes, big nose, serious expression. She doesn't have big tits, but this alone doesn't make her look like a kid.

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  • Here are some images where we can compare Maeve to the typical adult female human, Cassie.

    alt text

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    It's pretty obvious she was designed to look like a child.



  • This topic is so unnecassary and pointless. This fellow is trying to push his politics and moral stuff. This forums and the game are not the place for that.

    Also the only child alike champion is Talus and he runs around half naked all the time. But no one goes like "Hey kid wear a shirt, you gonna catch cold." Why doesn't that bother you? Wouldn't you be sad if Talus catches cold? Where is your sensevity?



  • @jocasela said in Enough with the childlike champions:

    This topic is so unnecassary and pointless. This fellow is trying to push his politics and moral stuff. This forums and the game are not the place for that.

    Also the only child alike champion is Talus and he runs around half naked all the time. But no one goes like "Hey kid wear a shirt, you gonna catch cold." Why doesn't that bother you? Wouldn't you be sad if Talus catches cold? Where is your sensevity?

    Well, obviously I'm not confronted with sexualizations of Talus all the time. If Talus was deleted from the game I'd be 100% okay with it. He's a horrible character with awful gameplay that doesn't require much skill and is difficult to fight against. His personality is basically a beige little bull on two legs. If they made him a minotaur he'd be about 10x as interesting. But all that is a distraction. 99% of the people who play shooters are men and so obviously it's the sexualized little girls that are more of a problem. For what it's worth, I don't like the naked Koga or Fernando skins either.

    I'm not pushing politics and moral stuff. I'm pushing good game design. Playing with and and as children simply isn't cool. Super soldiers are cool. Minotaurs are cool. Beautiful women are cool. Weird little children are not cool.

    If you say Maeve isn't childlike, explain the images I just posted above your post comparing her to Cassie. She clearly has the size and proportions of an elementary schooler. It's quite unbelievable how you guys are incapable of seeing this.



  • @taikonaut

    Did you read when someone said she was Tigron? A race in the Paladins Realm. She isn't human, at least not fully. She's half-Tigron. Stop looking at the whole picture with conventional means and start looking at it with an open mind.


  • PC

    @taikonaut

    Where's the complaint about Willo?

    BTW, She is 3 years old. The developers have confirmed that this is adult-aged for faeries. How'd they confirm that?



  • @Rauyne said in Enough with the childlike champions:

    @taikonaut

    Did you read when someone said she was Tigron? A race in the Paladins Realm. She isn't human, at least not fully. She's half-Tigron. Stop looking at the whole picture with conventional means and start looking at it with an open mind.

    Yeah, but she looks like a human child.

    @DaddyOoker said in Enough with the childlike champions:

    @taikonaut

    Where's the complaint about Willo?

    BTW, She is 3 years old. The developers have confirmed that this is adult-aged for faeries. How'd they confirm that?

    Willo doesn't bother me (although I do wish she'd be deleted as she's an awful, annoying stick in the mud of a character) because she isn't very human. She looks a bit like an alien. I guess I'm so caught up on how bad Willo's design is that I can't be offended by her age. Also, even if she was 300 years old I don't see how she would look different, aside from being wrinkly. She's not even a human. IDK. Willo just doesn't bother me the way Maeve and Evie do, because Willo is just so overall terrible that I don't even consider her as a character, and she's also an ageless faerie not a prepubescent human child.



    • Fantasy Realm with its own set of races.
    • Artistic Design Choices leaning towards cartoon-ish proportions.
    • Characters were confirmed to be young adults.

    The arguments were presented to you multiple times, but if you still perceive the game characters with the mind of a child predator then that's your problem, not the problem of the playerbase or the developers.
    Yes, i have seen some gross imagery too, but you can't escape the reality of the game being popular and the human mind being weird and disturbing.



  • @taikonaut

    Most of your problems seem to be with the Champions themselves than their actual designs. Then again, as I've stated before you're being awfully narrow-minded and being stuck on "human perspectives" instead of the fantasy element.

    Maybe this game isn't for you, since you seem to have a lot of issues with it.



  • @Rakuda88 said in Enough with the childlike champions:

    • Fantasy Realm with its own set of races.
    • Artistic Design Choices leaning towards cartoon-ish proportions.
    • Characters were confirmed to be young adults.

    The arguments were presented to you multiple times, but if you still perceive the game characters with the mind of a child predator then that's your problem, not the problem of the playerbase or the developers.
    Yes, i have seen some gross imagery too, but you can't escape the reality of the game being popular and the human mind being weird and disturbing.

    @Rauyne said in Enough with the childlike champions:

    @taikonaut

    Most of your problems seem to be with the Champions themselves than their actual designs. Then again, as I've stated before you're being awfully narrow-minded and being stuck on "human perspectives" instead of the fantasy element.

    Maybe this game isn't for you, since you seem to have a lot of issues with it.

    You guys are both making the same point, which is that because HiRez has told us the characters are mature, they are mature, when in fact they actually are not physically mature, because they have the exact appearance of human children.

    alt text

    Here we can see Evie is not quite as childlike as I may have said. She seems to be almost as tall as Cassie. That said, she has a skinny body and a huge head which is exacerbated by her huge hair. So she gives off a very childlike silhouette. Additionally, her voice seems to be that of an adult or teenaged female doing a humorous impression of a very bratty child. I feel like a witch should be impressive, intimidating, and feminine. Also, her monochromatic color scheme with its prominent use of baby blue is very childish. So all that combines to explain why I feel she is a childlike champion. And then Maeve of course has the size and proportions of an elementary schooler.

    alt text

    For the purposes of giving this discussion a more positive direction, here's a witch I quickly found on google images that has no childlike appearance. I have to confess I was searching for more of a sinister, 19th century-style painting of a witch that would seem appropriate for a high fantasy setting, but I found myself confronted by a horde of ugly green-faced hags that looked quite absurd, so I settled with this image instead.


  • PC

    @taikonaut

    See that male on the right in the photo - that is a 30 year old man. Search "The 30-year-old who looks like a toddler"

    man.png



  • @DaddyOoker said in Enough with the childlike champions:

    @taikonaut

    See that male on the right in the photo - that is a 30 year old man. Search "The 30-year-old who looks like a toddler"

    man.png

    Well it is definitely true that there exist old people who look like young people, but like I said before that's not generally considered an attractive quality. You could also have champions with missing limbs in the game but I think, speaking honestly, most people would find it pretty distressing and distracting. I think most people would prefer healthy, attractive, 20-40 year old characters with maybe an occasional foray into younger or older characters. I have to say, Maeve wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue for me if she hadn't been highly meta since her inception. I find it quite amusing to see poorly played Maeves scurrying about like dumb animals, or mischievious cats, with that funny little running animation she does, so I think it would be appropriate to retain characters like Maeve as humorous joke characters, like Moji for example, that have no real impact on the game and are rarely seen at a higher level.

    All that said, I see no reason the game wouldn't be improved by simply turning Maeve into a normal adult human with a normal adult human body (and cat eyes, if that means she's a tigron or whatever) with attractive female qualities, much as I think Talus would be a much cooler champion if he was an adult male with a healthy, warlike form.

    We could even see an enhancement of Maeve's feline qualities, turning her into a sort of bestial animal like a Khajiit from Skyrim, with normal adult human proportions of course, in which case you wouldn't even need to sexualize her (as obviously a walking cat with boobs wouldn't have the same effect as a normal adult human with boobs) to make her interesting and eye grabbing. She could be like a dangerous felinoid rogue character, instead of a goofy little girl like she is now.

    alt text

    On the flip side of the gender divide, we have this Talus skin, which perfectly exemplifies the bad design decisions HiRez has often made with this game. It would be nice to have a game that takes itself seriously, with interesting characters that belong in a high fantasy setting like orcs and barbarians and warrior knights, without having a plague of joke skins like this to ruin the immersion or any semblance of a setting. Fortunately Talus is so off meta that you almost never see him. I mean you could say "but Taikonaut, skins like these make the game humorous and charming." I would just say to that, why not make the game epic and immersive instead? I mean would anyone really seriously miss this skin, character, or for instance the chicken-hat Strix skin?


  • PC

    @taikonaut

    I've seen missing limbs and alien looking stick morphs in game. Pretty comical really. I suggested they make the alien stick Evie a skin - be great for Halloween.

    I think people are more distressed by toxic behavior and disconnect problems more than anything regarding the looks or personality of a champion. I don't think it's fair to others that you want to change or remove champions that others may like and are perfectly happy with. Certainly not on the basis that you think they are children, childish, too much skin or other personal peeve.

    I also said you are entitled to your opinions. Just don't expect everyone to be on board with them. And now I'm done with this thread too.



  • @DaddyOoker said in Enough with the childlike champions:

    @taikonaut

    I've seen missing limbs and alien looking stick morphs in game. Pretty comical really. I suggested they make the alien stick Evie a skin - be great for Halloween.

    I think people are more distressed by toxic behavior and disconnect problems more than anything regarding the looks or personality of a champion. I don't think it's fair to others that you want to change or remove champions that others may like and are perfectly happy with. Certainly not on the basis that you think they are children, childish, too much skin or other personal peeve.

    I also said you are entitled to your opinions. Just don't expect everyone to be on board with them. And now I'm done with this thread too.

    IDK, I just feel if they wanted a bigger audience they could have done a much better job on this graphic design compartment. A game should have a visual that matches its gameplay. If you have goofy visuals full of children and trick or treat costumes, how could you possibly expect it to be taken seriously as a game or as an art project?



  • @taikonaut

    So you want something more realistic..something less Fantasy? Paladins is set in a fantasy world, their design choices have worked out for them for the most part. Not to mention skins are non-canon to the Lore and are visual overrides only, so skins shouldn't matter to the actual game other than to customization.



  • @Rauyne said in Enough with the childlike champions:

    @taikonaut

    So you want something more realistic..something less Fantasy? Paladins is set in a fantasy world, their design choices have worked out for them for the most part. Not to mention skins are non-canon to the Lore and are visual overrides only, so skins shouldn't matter to the actual game other than to customization.

    No, I like sci fi and fantasy, as it offers a lot more gameplay mechanics than grimdark realism does. Star Wars and LOTR are epic sci fi and fantasy series. But they can be ruined by characters like Jar Jar Binks, or the Hobbit's weird aesthetic and design choices (although the Hobbit was always a children's story).


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