Need help to be a frontline



  • Depends on what you mean by frontline dude...

    Do you want to be an offtank, or a point tank?

    I can't say much for point tanks, you gotta wait for Dusklicious for that, I think he's more qualified to give advice, but as for offtanks... I gotta say that you play like a flanker and dive to the backline, while trying to bully their damage dealers, or healers. You'd be like a flank, but with high health, and slightly lesser damage output (of course, Khan, Nando, and Ash have significant constant damage output if played properly)

    As for the question... How do I not die as an offtank? Be careful when Diving. You're not as mobile as a flank, but you are tankier... use that to your advantage



  • Team Positioning is key.
    Half the time allies fail to respect you positioning, those who do call you a god.

    You are the engine that allows your allies to do things.
    And pressure foes to stop doing things to your allies.

    Do not do things if your allies are not going to profit off them.

    You are pretty much playing the big bruiser wingman of your team, you have to make them love you, you have to be that glorious bastard who can save them from utter obiteration, or give them the window to do so.

    You have to think about the tactical positioning of shields, denying the lines of sight of foes, utility damage and denial of abilities through primary attack damage or CC.

    Holding a choke point or corridor, and denying your foes from advancing in any shape or form.

    All your damage is secondary, so you must focus and prioritize your targets by recognising the value of the target, the viability of damage utilities, and the ability to decide what is more viable, fighting them, or denying them of their potential ability to deal damage, either by blocking their line of sight, or by making them waste their time fighting and trying to drop you, allowing your team to make pressure in other areas.

    Main Tanks are trying to maintain line of sight denial to the enemy on the roads and road chokes, all the while they are trying to be a hard to take down target unless caught by CC or are just physically outgunned. Thus they have to know what is going to disrupt their ability to hold the line and adapt accordingly.

    Offtanks vary in role depending on class, general off tanks are the ones who are active in trying to take a foothold in area the enemy need to prioritise to take the objective, trying lead a raid into the enemy backline to gain that foothold, or setting up shop in their own backline to deny the enemy to deny of taking a flanker route.

    Hybrid Tanks have support and CC abilities to provide team support while standing in the middle ground, their position often dictates what angle the team can be agressive, while their CC denies the abilities of other frontlines who over extend and other champions at a bad moment.

    Most importantly, learn to stay alive.
    YOU DIE ON YOUR OWN TERMS.
    SUICIDE, SO BE IT.
    TANKS DIE WITH A FURY.
    Eventually you will learn the moments of a good advance, you will storm into the weakened enemy and shatter their foothold, you will know when to boulder throw yourself into the most exposed fracture in the enemy backlines only to crush them against the advace of your team.



  • @InfectedMazuken said in Need help to be a frontline:

    So if anyone can give tips I would be glad!

    Don't play Torvald. He just got nerfed and he is no fun and in 1on1 he is the weakest tank. I'd recommend Terminus or Barik. You need a good deck, so watch a how-to-play-this-champ video of KamiVS or Jayflare, they usually explain which card to pick why.


  • PC

    @InfectedMazuken said in Need help to be a frontline:

    If anyone can give tips I would be glad!

    Don't play Torvald. He's legit trash.

    I would say two good tanks to start out with would be Ash and Barik.

    I would say Inara, but she's really badly countered by Tyra (worse than most tanks), though she can deal with Skye's Debilitate fine enough. Though she is really easy to play on a fundamental level and I find that she works quite well at lower skill levels where people don't know quite how to deal with her. If you do decide to play Inara, really the only way she should ever be played is a Mother's Grace build, focused on DR and blocking CC.

    For Ash, she's probably among the easiest frontlines for somebody to transition to as she has a lot of CC, her hitboxes are forgiving, and Battering Ram builds just don't really require much in the way of skill to really utilize. I'd suggest going for a Battering Ram build if you're new to her and play her as an off-tank (she can be ran as a point tank with Fortress Breaker, but it requires a different build that plays a lot differently, and it's not as easy to make work).

    As for Barik, of course I'd be the one to recommend him as he is my main and I do have a guide for him in my sig. I would suggest going for a Tinkerin build assuming that you mainly play damage champions, though Architectonics playstyles are surprisingly good if you can get good enough with the champion and your game sense is enough on point to make good use of turrets. Both playstyles are definitely more point-focused.


  • PC

    @Dusklicious

    inara isn't countered by tyra, barik is tho, the cripple will hurt barik while inara has mother grace

    ash is the best starter tank but inara is quite simple too

    barik needs better cd management and aiming


  • PC

    @TangAce said in Need help to be a frontline:

    @Dusklicious

    inara isn't countered by tyra, barik is tho, the cripple will hurt barik while inara has mother grace

    ash is the best starter tank but inara is quite simple too

    barik needs better cd management and aiming

    "Inara isn't countered by Tyra" Until you get stuck in a Fire Bomb, then even with the DR from Mother's Grace you're going to get shredded while you're in it. I haven't played a lot of Inara, but I do know especially with BM the Fire Bomb damage is ridiculous even through the DR.

    On Barik that's true to an extent. But really aim is only a real requirement for Tinkerin builds. As for CD management, it's pretty important yes but it is something that can be learned and also something that can be made a heck of a lot easier with OMT. Some people starting out also run Chronos, which even is total $#!+ because of how much it costs... That will end up making the people who run it lose out on so much Caut/Rejuv. But it does help some in the department of cooldown management for those that aren't really good with it.


  • PC

    @Dusklicious

    inara avoid cripple and has dr...what can you ask more?
    anyway the fire bomb is so easy to avoid...

    [edited by mod]

    inara is easy to play compared to other tanks, she require no positioning, no aiming, her cd management is fairly easy, she's really forgiving thanks to dr and cc immune, no better tank to start with, ash is also fairly easy


  • PC

    @TangAce

    Bronze enemies? When I get a Tyra Burn Monster enemy they wait until my Earthern Guard is on CD. Drogoz waits until I've used the wall, etc.

    Inara is easy enough but that wall. Inara walls have blocked my ults and kill shots so many times. (I admit to having done this to my teammates as well) The wall blocks everyone's view and nobody can shoot thru it. I much prefer shields that don't have those issues.

    @InfectedMazuken Be nice if the OP would give another front line that he's having issues with and what those issues are instead of our rambling.


  • PC

    @DaddyOoker
    uh, truly, tyra is so easy to deal with, he's having trouble with tyra, so he's surely playing at gold or below, which means tyra players won't have brains, and above gold you won't see any tyra cause she's way too easy to kill, as I said, fire bomb is easy to avoid, maybe you'll die once or twice to it in 15min...it's not much and it's maybe

    it's pretty simple to outplay people...and to learn tanks, inara and ash are the best options, he's learning, meaning he will also learn when and where to put wall
    then I hope he'll learn in casual...

    and I prefer an inara not doing much but simply being on point and even if she fails wall...it'll be better than a barik rushing mid and dying without doing anything useful cause he can't hit anything nor survive due to 0 cd management, barik also needs better positioning than inara, inara can be healed while under caut, something any other tank can't, if the player don't know how to clear caut properly then as barik he'll die all the time
    inara doesn't care and ash has her wonderful failproof dash

    ash and inara are truly forgiving and easier to play
    doesn't mean barik is hard, and it doesn't imply he will do better as nara than as barik, he's looking to learn tanks, inara is better than barik for learning purpose, cause she's forgiving and simplier to play
    it's like zhin is more forgiving and easier to play than other flanks, he's pretty good to learn flanking

    again he's not asking what tank is best against tyra (it'll still be inara against burn monster, simply cause cc kills barik) he's asking for advices to learn tank, objectively, inara is a better start than barik, same as ash is better to start with than khan

    regardless, one can do more as inara than as barik if one doesn't know how to play, simply cause inara can be played like a bot rushing point and it'll do the job (I've seen gms play like that and it does work lmao)


  • Moderator

    We can give advice and debate without making attacks at each other. Please stop. You know who you are.



  • Inara is good at holding the line, but it is easy for everyone maintain their space from her unless they are unable to.
    Inara should only die if her team is on the backfoot.
    Other tanks can provide better team synergy in terms of player defense with shields, but a good inara will be denying the area a foe can move.
    But then again there is Dimitri playing offtank Inara with Tremmors.
    And that is a wild ride of mobility and environment control that outmanuvers every other tank at the expense of an exposed playerbody, forcing inara to play as a hybrid lockdown and sniper character with a Massive HP pool, armour and healing synergy, while always having cover or denying your foes from your position.



  • There are two types of tanks, well, three really... The first one is the point tank. The second is the off tank. The third one is Torvald.

    Point Tank

    Who are the point tanks? Inara, Barik, and Terminus. I think Hi-Rez/EvilMojo is trying to turn Fernando into one, but we'll see. Ash CAN be a point tank if you build her right, but she's the weakest choice since she's the jack of all trades and master of none. Point tanks basically get on the point and become a damage sponge.

    Inara: She has the most health in the game, which makes her a great point tank. Mother's Grace is her best point tank talent since it reduces damage by an extra 20% while using Earthen Guard and grants cc immunity. Cards to use with this talent are: Geomancer at 5, Sacred Ground at 4, Standing Stones at 3, and the last 2 are filler, though I use Rolling Stones at 2 and Steadfast at 1. Geomancer at 5 reduces the cooldown of Earthen Guard by 2.5 seconds , which is the premier skill for this talent. Sacred Ground gives 20% damage reduction, when you stand in Warder's Field, at level 4. Standing Stones reduces the cooldown of Warder's Field by 3 seconds. Rolling Stones at 2 means that eliminations reduce active cooldowns by 16%, and Steadfast at 1 gives me 150 extra health. Treacherous Ground is good for countering extremely mobile flanks, excluding Evie and Maeve, though I personally don't use it much. I still use the same cards, just different values. Obviously, Standing Stones has more value than Geomancer here. Never use tremors, EVER!!!

    Barik: I use 2 talents, tinkering and architectonics. Architectonics is great against mobile flanks like Evie and Maeve, and it's my favorite talent. More healing due to the turret cool downs, plus more area control. Only problem is that Barik's primary weapon is very close range with this talent. Cards for this talent are: Bowling Ball 4, Failsafe 3, One Man's Treasure 2, Healing Station 3, and Field Deploy 3. Bowling Ball and Failsafe are connected. Bowling Ball means that rocket boots gives you a 1,200 shield, and Failsafe means that dropping below 30 of your health resets the cooldown of rocket boots. So when you take a lot of damage or about to take a lot of damage, use rocket boots, then when you get below 30% of your health, rocket boots again for more shielding. Healing Station at 3 means your turrets heals you for 135 health per second. One Man's Treasure at 2 means that eliminations reduce active cool downs by 20%. Field Deploy means you reduce the deploy time of your turrets by 1.8 seconds. Tinkering is great against people that can easily destroy your turrets, plus it's great for zoning. With this talent, your primary weapon deals flat damage up to mid range. Bowling Ball and Failsafe are at their same value for this talent, One Man's Treasure is at 3 here, Healing Station at 4 here (180 health per second now), and Brave and Bold is added here (gain 150 health).

    Terminus: ??? I don't play him. Sorry.

    Ash: Fortress Breaker for her main tank talent. My build for this is Siege Engine 4, War Machine 3, Heavy Metal 3, Castle Forged 2, and Indomitable 3. Siege Engine means that hitting an enemy with Kinetic Burst reduces the cooldown of my shield. It goes with Castle Forged 2, which reduces the cooldown of Kinetic Burst by 1 second. War Machine 3 means eliminations reduce cooldowns by 30%. Heavy Metal and Indomitable give me extra sustain with 450 extra health and 30% lifesteal.

    That's it for the point tanks.



  • Off Tanks

    Off tanks are the rest, excluding Torvald. I really only play Ash and Khan, I used to do Fernando and Ruckus before their nerfs.

    Ash: the talent for her being an off tank is battering ram. The cards I use are: Percussion at 4, Gate Crasher at 2, War Machine at 4, Indomitable at 3, and Castle Forged at 2. Percussion increased the knockback of Kinetic Burst by 32%, which is great on maps where you can blast people off, hehehe. Gate Crasher at 2 reduces the cooldown of Shoulde Bash by 2.4 seconds, and War Machine at 4 reduces all cooldowns by 40% when you get an elimination. Another loadout, for when it's on a stage where you can't knock enemies off, I use the cards: War Machine at 4, Gate Crasher at 4, Castle forged at 2, Vanguard at 2, and Indomitable at 3. Gate Crasher at 4 now puts Shoulder Bash at a 4.8 second reduced cooldown, and you gain 16% damage reduction for 2 seconds after using Shoulder Bash (so haven 2 and blast shields 2 at the start).

    Khan: I personally use vortex grip for the utility of it. Cards are: Hulking Strength at 5, Never Surrender at 2, Lifetaker at 4, Close and Personal at 3, and Platemail at 1. Hulking Strength at 5 reduces the cooldown of commander's grab by 3 seconds, Never Surrender at 2 reduces the cooldown of battle shout by 2 seconds, lifetaker reduces active cooldowns by 32% when you get an elimination, close and personal gives you 24% damage reduction for 2 seconds when hitting an enemy with commander's grab, and Platemail is a filler card that gives me 150 extra health.

    With them, you generally want to go into the enemy's backline, or patrol flank routes. Point tanks are generally by the point, and healer, to soak up damage and help with point fights. Off tanks are going into backlines or intercepting flanks on the flank route.



  • @InfectedMazuken said in Need help to be a frontline:

    I think the title says it but to be more specific, I just feel like frontliners are more bullet sponges than actually doing damage these days. Mostly I get bursted down easily by Skye's right click and their debilitate talent along with Tyra and burn monster or just her fire bomb in general. Then there is Maeve with street justice that just deletes tanks. Just today I played Torvald and I couldn't even solo a viktor one vs one in DM.

    I would like some tips to play a frontline, because I feel like the knowledge I have accumulated all these years isn't helping. So if anyone can give tips I would be glad!

    Skye is countered hard by Barik and Khan. Barik just has too much sustain and self healing for her, Khan can stun her with vortex grip and deal a lot of damage with storm of bullets.

    Tyra is bad for a lot of tanks to deal with since she's damage, she's suppose to counter them.

    Maeve is countered hard by Torvald and Barik, because Barik's turrets track all movement, no matter how fast. Barik is great against Maeve and Evie for that reason alone. Self heal with Barik can deny Maeve her Street Justice, but only if a damage isn't shredding your health. Torvald counters Maeve and Evie because his nullify completely stops their movement.



  • They are not damage sponges, it depends who you pick, fernando is a unfinished useless character and the easiest to farm ult from, tanks like khan can just grab you and you're a free kill, drop you and you're stunned for a VERY long time (free kill again) it also stops ult so you're shooting with tyra even if its ult, he'll tank the hits merely walking up to you use this normal ability and it will shut you up

    BUGS GALORE this game still has alot of damn bugs, take ASH as an example, you'll get occasions where she'll be dying then suddenly she loses NO hp, she's got so low hp you can sneeze and kill her and bam you can empty an entire clip as krohk and she doesn't die, there you go, one free OP tank

    In paladins you can get ONE nimble tile and you can practically use terminus and just walk with your fellow tanks directly into the fight and bully and spawn camp anyone you want, if you're dying alot by skye its because its the nature of QP where you a team that refuses to help you, apart from that tanks in paladins are the most OP characters ever



  • @Dusklicious said in Need help to be a frontline:

    "Inara isn't countered by Tyra" Until you get stuck in a Fire Bomb, then even with the DR from Mother's Grace you're going to get shredded while you're in it. I haven't played a lot of Inara, but I do know especially with BM the Fire Bomb damage is ridiculous even through the DR.

    Pick Nimble. I've played vs Inara players who blocked my fire bomb with the wall, but one has to be really fast for that I guess and needs a good eye.


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Need help to be a frontline:

    @Dusklicious said in Need help to be a frontline:

    "Inara isn't countered by Tyra" Until you get stuck in a Fire Bomb, then even with the DR from Mother's Grace you're going to get shredded while you're in it. I haven't played a lot of Inara, but I do know especially with BM the Fire Bomb damage is ridiculous even through the DR.

    Pick Nimble. I've played vs Inara players who blocked my fire bomb with the wall, but one has to be really fast for that I guess and needs a good eye.

    It helps, sure, but it also takes up an item slot that could be used for something else, like Chronos (which is actually a fairly good item on Inara btw, as most Inara builds really want Earthen Guard up as often as possible). Blocking Bomb is probably not all that difficult, though it also takes up a wall, and makes it harder for your team to push further up.



  • @Dusklicious said in Need help to be a frontline:

    It helps, sure, but it also takes up an item slot that could be used for something else, like Chronos (which is actually a fairly good item on Inara btw, as most Inara builds really want Earthen Guard up as often as possible). Blocking Bomb is probably not all that difficult, though it also takes up a wall, and makes it harder for your team to push further up.

    Well, if you could counter Tyra without using skills or items the char would probably be useless. 🙂


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