Fernando needs more buffs



  • First of all I would like to thank Hi-Rez for actually noticing after so long that Fernando needed a buff on his shield but that was not enough.

    I will be talking about pick rates, possible buffs for him, and more.

    Let’s start with pick rates. Tell me people when has a Fernando ever been in your game? Maybe once twice or even multiple games in a row. Fernando is one of the least picked tanks no champions in paladins just because of how the way his play style, cool downs and just damage on with the character.

    Possible buffs I personally feel like would make him better is giving his base flamethrower a 30-50 damage increase and yes the damage is on 70 or so currently and it ticks even tho your target is out of LOS. This I feel would make him keep of with other tanks like Khan.

    Cool downs are a big factor for Fernando by having his recent change to his shield was a good start going from 15 -> 12 seconds but they could have made it 10 I mean he even has a timer on his shield while Khan does not which I thing should be switched or match Khan’s shield.

    Fernando also could have gotten a buff to his range of his flamethrower as well just to make him a bit more you effective.

    Finally talking about Fernando and Khan why does his shield not go away when he is a ranged character but Fernando an up in your face tank has a timer and less health on his shield.

    I’m not mad with the character I just feel like he is kinda ehh compared to Khan, Makoa and more. Anyway this is my opinion but If you agree cool if not tell me why you don’t feel like these or a specific change is good for the character! 🙂


  • Switch

    @AToxicMuffin said in Fernando needs more buffs:

    Possible buffs I personally feel like would make him better is giving his base flamethrower a 30-50 damage increase and yes the damage is on 70 or so currently and it ticks even tho your target is out of LOS.

    This is the only problem IMO, all cooldowns aren’t too long.


  • PC

    @a_a said in Fernando needs more buffs:

    @AToxicMuffin said in Fernando needs more buffs:

    Possible buffs I personally feel like would make him better is giving his base flamethrower a 30-50 damage increase and yes the damage is on 70 or so currently and it ticks even tho your target is out of LOS.

    This is the only problem IMO, all cooldowns aren’t too long.

    That is not true... Fernando’s Biggest problem is he is incredibly susceptible to interruptions/CC while his shield is up which in turn forces the shield down and pretty much makes him a sitting duck without a continuous stream of healing... later made useless by Cauterize.

    Frankly speaking, Fernandos damage is fine. He is especially lethal once you get him to cauterize 3 as he is able to keep that applied for quite a long time...

    The problem is, unless they allow his shield to be brought up at will like the other tanks or be CC immune during his shield, then he is just a lackluster Frontline. It’s bad enough as it is when the team starts goin wrecker and deleting his shields.... it’s even worse when the enemy team has a khan that can instantly force him to lower his shield and pretty much have the nando get utterly deleted by teamfire...


  • Switch

    @REDBelmont456

    Didn’t think about CC..


  • PC

    I kind of agree, though I think we need to be cautious about it. I personally like the idea of really getting at the issues with his pretty much mediocre at best talents.

    Straight up buffing Scorch is not an option (I think it needs a rework, maybe giving the Fireball a DoT). Buffing it straight up wouldn't make it consistent, but it would make it a lot more ridiculous potentially if Fireballs are lined up.

    Aegis DEFINITELY needs a buff. That talent is quite literally useless. Just get Towering Barrier on a Formidable build instead, it's better than running this $#!+ and you get really good healing from it early. I would suggest getting rid of the CDR (so it cooperates with Towering Barrier), and buffing the shield health to something along the lines of Makoa's ult health (which is 11k without Leviathan). It would be a nice big shield that could last and give him a point build option.

    Formidable IMO is sort of in need of a tweak. Now that Armor is a thing in Paladins, I think it's only fitting for him to have a talent that allows him to overheal into Armor when it procs. What I'm suggesting is to make it give Fernando X amount of Armor when it would proc (Maybe 1500 or something like that that lasts maybe 15 seconds) instead of what it does now. Less powerful early game, but more consistent into late.

    As for the rest of him, maybe buff his on-hit damage to 40 (from 35), and his ult might need some tweaking (as it's hard to consistently utilize effectively). Also slightly decrease base health to make him consistent with other tanks.


    To state them plainly and with numbers:

    Scorch- Current Effect Removed. Scorch now deals 5% max HP + 50 damage to targets over 1 second after hitting them with fireball. (5 tics of 1% max HP + 10).

    Aegis- No longer reduces the shield's cooldown, but the talent now increases his shield strength by 2500 and grants him immunity to slows and stuns.

    Formidable- Current Effect Removed. Formidable now grants Fernando 1500 Armor for 15 seconds after dropping below 45% health. Cooldown of 45 seconds. (By the way the 15 seconds of armor would count as part of the CD).

    Base Health- decreased from 4600 to 4500 (Don't worry, it means basically nothing. It just makes the class more consistent).

    Flamethrower- On-hit damage increased from 35 to 40.

    Formidable- Instead of working at 1500 health, invulnerability now works at 60% of any given ally's health (in other words, it's far more consistently useful for himself, but the effect would be nerfed a bit for squishy teammates).

    Just some ideas.

    EDIT:
    Scorch suggestion- Added 50 flat damage to the bonus. (+)


  • PC

    @a_a it makes sense if you think about the reason the top frontliners/off tanks are constantly picked in ranked, that reason being they’re the ONLY ones that have some kind of shield/damage mitigation that is unaffected by CC/Interrupts. Fernando on the other hand has neither of these and is stupid easy to blow up with team fire once the shield is taken out or forced down...



  • @Dusklicious
    How about that buffs:

    1. Fireball now applies afterburn 200 damage over 2s (similar to flamethrower). Applies after initial damage. That increases his dps a bit (30-. 60 dps, depending on Fireballer card level) at all ranges.
    2. Scorch talent: Fireball deals 20% more direct damage vs burning players.
    3. Shield CD is can be reduced down to 4s based on shield health left upon closing it. That should help a bit vs CCs, that close your shield
    4. Using Charge with open shield affects all enemies in shield width area.
    5. Aegis talent: Your shield has no duration. 50% damage taken by your shield returns to you as health.
    6. IDK about ultimate, I literally have no idea, how it might be enhanced. One QoL change though - make his ultimate more visible for allies. Say, add a symbol on top of HUD, like Furia's ulti has.


  • I main Fernando in Onslaught and Seige. Frankly, I don't believe Fernando needs to be buffed. Personally, I think we need to know how to utilize him better and we need teammates who know how to properly play the characters they've chosen to play.

    My personal opinion.


  • PC

    @Conrad_Max I don’t care how good of a nando you are... you will always be hard countered with a lot less effort from them mind you, by Ash, khan, makoa, Atalas, even touvald ffs because they all have a way to instantly disable or delay your only means of mitigating/reducing damage...

    This is coming from someone who’s best frontline back when the game first had a ranked mode was Fernando... He is just bad compared to the other frontlines with better tools to deal with CC so they’re not entirely helpless...

    As Fernando is now he is an off tank at best, and he is still far outclassed by Kahn and Ash...


  • PC

    @JoeTheMoonwalker said in Fernando needs more buffs:

    @Dusklicious
    How about that buffs:

    1. Fireball now applies afterburn 200 damage over 2s (similar to flamethrower). Applies after initial damage. That increases his dps a bit (30-. 60 dps, depending on Fireballer card level) at all ranges.
    2. Scorch talent: Fireball deals 20% more direct damage vs burning players.
    3. Shield CD is can be reduced down to 4s based on shield health left upon closing it. That should help a bit vs CCs, that close your shield
    4. Using Charge with open shield affects all enemies in shield width area.
    5. Aegis talent: Your shield has no duration. 50% damage taken by your shield returns to you as health.
    6. IDK about ultimate, I literally have no idea, how it might be enhanced. One QoL change though - make his ultimate more visible for allies. Say, add a symbol on top of HUD, like Furia's ulti has.
    1. Straight up buffing the fireball ability would be a pretty bad idea. Aggressive Nando would be a ways too good. I put my own suggestion for adding this specifically to the Scorch Talent, but it also is %max HP based. Though thinking about squishies, it would be of worryingly low strength vs non-tanks.
    2. That would be very hard to confirm, and may actually make the talent worse than it is now. Though the direct part does diversify his way of dealing damage.
    3. That sounds legit broken.
    4. I don't know why it doesn't do that already... 😕
    5. No maximum duration you mean? It already has that, though I'm assuming you mean you'd keep that. Interesting idea on the health return, but wouldn't that be heavily affected by Cauterize?
    6. I don't know why that isn't in the game already either.


  • @Dusklicious
    IDK about buffing Fireball directly being wrong. It might get Flanknando back, sure, but I'd doubt it. Fireball afterburn should be shared with Flame lance. That means Fireball won't do additional damage to enemies you attack with primary fire.
    I can explain my vision on Scorch, though. Current one has real impact only if you hit more, than two enemies at once, and that is fairly hard to do. If you go off tank, current Scorch loses it's usefulness completely, since you usually fight 1v1 or 2v2, therefore currently you have way too minor bonus from it. If you go full tank, why take Scorch at all? Also, I must point, that in fight your enemies are usually burning, because of your primary attack. Of course I just made up numbers from nothing, it might be better to have 30 or 35% bonus.

    About quicker shield recovery - I don't see, how is it broken? If you take damage on your shield, it's CD increases up to current 12s if it was destroyed. But if you close it with sime health left by yourself or by stun, it will have smaller CD. You must have full shield health (Shield unused) to have 4s CD. Therefore each thousand of shield health taken increases its CD by 1s.

    About new Aegis, yes, I meant to keep infinite duration. Health restoration would hardly affected by caut, since you are covered by your shield. You don't take damage - your shield does. After 1.5s you will receive full healing from the talent.



  • @REDBelmont456 said in Fernando needs more buffs:

    @Conrad_Max I don’t care how good of a nando you are... you will always be hard countered with a lot less effort from them mind you, by Ash, khan, makoa, Atalas, even touvald ffs because they all have a way to instantly disable or delay your only means of mitigating/reducing damage...

    This is coming from someone who’s best frontline back when the game first had a ranked mode was Fernando... He is just bad compared to the other frontlines with better tools to deal with CC so they’re not entirely helpless...

    As Fernando is now he is an off tank at best, and he is still far outclassed by Kahn and Ash...

    We don't play alone. We have a team who should be playing with us. That is how this game was conceived.


  • PC

    @Conrad_Max said in Fernando needs more buffs:

    @REDBelmont456 said in Fernando needs more buffs:

    @Conrad_Max I don’t care how good of a nando you are... you will always be hard countered with a lot less effort from them mind you, by Ash, khan, makoa, Atalas, even touvald ffs because they all have a way to instantly disable or delay your only means of mitigating/reducing damage...

    This is coming from someone who’s best frontline back when the game first had a ranked mode was Fernando... He is just bad compared to the other frontlines with better tools to deal with CC so they’re not entirely helpless...

    As Fernando is now he is an off tank at best, and he is still far outclassed by Kahn and Ash...

    We don't play alone. We have a team who should be playing with us. That is how this game was conceived.

    he can't even do his job right in a team when his ONLY means of protecting people is quite easily shut down by CC/interrupts... that's pretty much been my entire basis for my argument to give him some kind of CC resistance or immunity while using shield as it is just not good when compared to other Frontlines...



  • @REDBelmont456, if you have a good team, Fernando, and any other character, can be awesome.

    Look at this forum. Some people are constantly asking for buffs and nerfs for specific character yet almost always disagee with each other's requests. It's almost as if they believe that just one Champion will carry a match or that one will cause a team to lose. With some of these folks the idea of a team actually working together is meaningless. A good cohesive team will win most matches no matter how strong or weak a character is. It seems such players cannot understand a team's make up and would work for their kill count rather than completing the match's objectives. Heck, there are suggestion in the game telling us how we can play to win, but many players still do their own thing. It's as if consistant wins is decided by luck instead of skill.

    As I have stated my point, whether understood or not, I have nothing more to contribute to this conversation. Good luck.


  • PC

    @Conrad_Max said in Fernando needs more buffs:

    @REDBelmont456, if you have a good team Fernando, and any other character, can be awesome.

    Literally any character can be played well, that doesn't mean they're actually good characters in any way whatsoever. I still see people get good games in with Ruckus and Buck and they're the worst characters in the game right now.



  • @JoeTheMoonwalker said in Fernando needs more buffs:

    1. Scorch talent: Fireball deals 20% more direct damage vs burning players.
      alt text


  • Step 1: Reduce Hot Pursuit Move Speed duration from 3s to 2s.
    Step 2: Remove the internal CD from his card.

    BAM! He's fun again and I am back to onetricking him.



  • The one power that Fenando lost and power never regained, his Fireball %50 Cauterise...
    It was taken out of base kit in favour of mitigating it though cards alone...
    However as max Brand %80 caut was an overtoned value for base cauterise at round one... enough to deny powerful healing in a mere moment...

    This %50 cauterise was essential for Fernando to have more of an impact at range and in duels.
    Denying folk majority of healing while exposed and in the open.
    Allowing his Fireball to hinder self and support healing, thus allowing for easier flank dive pressure on ranged foes who are struggling to heal, providing suppressing damage and a damaging debuff that impacted enemy recovery time.

    I would like this to return some way or another.
    As soon as it was removed several patches ago and mitigated though the brand alone...
    I felt like Fenando lost his mid range, multi foe lane holding utility, as the majority of the burst damage it deals to the enemy team can just be healed up at a moments notice nowadays with the healing output of supports being the way they are.
    This just does not make sense for an ability with a CD that is pretty long without Incinerate.

    Many chacracters can just out poke Fernando with juggernaught healing factors, twice the dps or a hard control move, makes it almost impossible for Fernando to do anything unless cauterise is bought, making this item almost a forced pick inorder to play the game at all thanks to Fireball Caut Removal.

    Despite Fernando's great caut utility... his other damage utility is not really viable to counter enemy strategy other then healing.
    He is just strait up garbage against pocket shields and high mobility with pocket healing.
    He is average destroying deployables, his foe piercing attack is the big utility that can attack through cartain deployables.
    His weapon cannot do shite vs other shields as Fernando is made to dive them to continue caut.
    So if cauterise is his whole deal, why is it a forced buy and not added somehow in base kit in order to always have access to a base cauterise value and allow fernando to buy something other then be forced to take cauterise.



  • Hi-Rez didn't really know how to nerf in a healthy way. Look at Imani. Imani only need to decrease the rate of her ult charge, and maybe decrease the time of rooting by a slight bit. Instead, she got a super nerf to the point where no one plays her anymore.



  • Another issue is that Fireball has a huge base CD considering it is his only ranged ability.

    Which pretty much has forced incinerate to be in so many kits, just to have your initial poke and another fireball soon after for quality of life.

    Honestly the base CD should be brought down to 4s just to allow Fern to have consistant ranged poke, instead of incinerate 3 in almost every kit I see.

    If his 2s %50 Cauterise Fireball were allowed to return...
    Or if Fireball Counted as a weapon attack and applied hostile shop item effects of caut, wrecker and dozer...

    This would be some aid to restore Fernando's Offencive Power in combination with a buff to make fireball more reactive at base.


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