Let's talk about mobility and TTK in paladins

  • Moderator

    @Pr0j3ct97 said in Let's talk about mobility and TTK in paladins:

    I'd like to mention that aim assist is the worst thing to exist for console and that mobility back in the old days was way more better even on console (personal opinion)

    Aim assist kills people more than it helps.

  • I was completely driven out of playing on console. The performance of the controller was poor and I have a better aiming experience in other games.

    The aim assist mechanic that reduces sensitivity when aiming near players threw of my snap aiming and traking a bit much that it made it difficult to follow an airborn target. Bare in mind this was awhile ago. Since then they have made adjustments I have yet to truely get a feel of, but I prefered to play with keyboard and mouse, even with console, and I would strongly recommend ingame information that informs players to trial using keyboard and mouse on some champs that are poor to play without it.

    Another point is that the ability to adjust sensitivity was janky. Three variable settings do not provide enough variation to modify sensitivity and should be altered to a slider.

    Even when playing with a mouse, the game limits you to playing with the three settings that the controler has, forcing the player to get a mouse with sensitivity adjustmenting features. Having to get a mouse with customizable dpi is also iffy as consoles may or may not support alternating dpi with a particular mouse brand.

    And before someone says "play with a controller" I will say no. The game is crossplay now, and keyboard and mouse is an arena shooter must have to play without as much limitations.

  • @AYYDIMITRI As someone who would pick a projectile champion over a Viktor or Talus anyday I can confirm that aim assist is only good when it's being used in a argument by a PC player, besides that it's trash and makes me question my skill level because I've missed kills I shouldn't have and gotten some as well. One such example is a TDM where I was Strix and a enemy Maeve managed to sneak up on me while I was busy trying to hit a Lex in the distance and the game violently dragged my crosshairs off the guy I was aiming at and locked onto the poor guy who spent god knows how long to sneak up on me.

    But using KB&M against controller users is as bad as hacking because of the massive advantage it gives you, I've once faced a level 8 Cassie who destroyed my whole team repeatedly with a level of accuracy not even players in masters or GM have shown.
    What Hirez needs to do is play something like Apex Legends on console and see how well their settings work, then try to implement that into Paladins, we deserve that much atleast.

  • Look, shooters since the 90s have been using KB&M for a good reason, the reactive aim is much better to work with, and pretty much deifine the meta of the game.

    If you compare it to hacking.... I simply will laugh... why bother using a controller in a shooter environment, its like a knife to a gun fight.

    Which is why I stated... there should be ingame advice that tells you to gravitate to using KB&M for a better game play experience.

    (Cause Grover & Evie on Controller were aids asf to play.)

    It should common logic to use them to play these sorts of games.
    Why add crossplay with PC if you are going be limited to controller...

    Also keyboards and a mouse are cheap asf to purchase, even cheaper then a controller so why not.

    The only issue is that the support for the controller and KB&M settings are pretty basic on console.

  • One time I tried to play an fps with a controller on my friend's ps4 and I couldn't aim at all , even after some sens adjustments -_-
    I had to use keyboard and mouse, it was much better than controller but idk why it felt weird.
    Moviments were strange, slow, lazy, I thought there was a delay between my mouse moviments and the game moviments... bruh.
    I will never play on console again, even with keyboard and mouse, I have a nintendo switch at home but I will never install an fps on it, I'll just keep playing pokemon xD.
    Btw I agree with @AYYDIMITRI , it is better to play with keyboard and mouse with certain characters, hirez should mention it on the tutorial. You can find a decent mouse even for 40€ , the keyboard doesn't matter , even a 10€ one is fine 🙂
    I repeat, the performance isn't the same of pc, but still better than controller for some characters.
    And crossplay imo is just crap and makes the balancement difficult for every platform.
    There are different metas for each platform, it is impossible to balance them.

  • PC

    @Driggydrug said in Let's talk about mobility and TTK in paladins:

    You can find a decent mouse even for 40€

    Even 10€ mouses are fine, I've had mine for two years and works like the first day

  • I played on PC with controller movement and a mouse to aim...
    It is clunky asf for the UI to process, often threw my abilities window off screen...
    But not being limited to 45 degree movement was perfect for AA Rukus back in the day.

  • Moderator

    @AYYDIMITRI Yes yes, PC master race. But you gotta realise that we console potatoes use a controller and don't want aim assist. What you said doesn't bring anything to the discussion, you're basically saying rambling facts that's been done to death by every PC elitist out there.

  • PC

    @CMS said in Let's talk about mobility and TTK in paladins:

    But you gotta realise that we console potatoes use a controller and don't want aim assist

    I think he meant that even on console you can play with m&k and that would help with the disadvantage. Also, isn't there an option in game that disables aim assist? I ask because I am not sure

  • @CMS the points that I have made are as followed.

    • Better variable sensitivity ajustment for controller.

    • Alternate sensitivity adjustment system for KB&M on console.

    • Advising use of KB&M on characters who perform poorly on Controller as platform / controller should not define the meta of the game.

    • UI is janky when using both controller and KB&M simultaniously.

    • On the point of aim assist, since it cannot be toggled on and off, it still effects KB&M the same making it annoying to play for projectile champions the same as controller and OP for hitscan on KB&M.

    These are my clearly stated issues that ought to be addressed other then the aim assist issue others have previously mentioned, I am making a statement here about other reasons that Driggy has not touched on.

    If players wish to play with only other controller users then a setting to limit a persons games to be only partied with controller users would be advised.

    Its not a matter of "PC master race" its a about being able to actually play and enjoy champions properly, no matter the platform. Stating that I am rambling pointless facts is a bit rude for a moderator.

    "Top 10 rappers eminem was afraid to diss" xddd

    ok no

  • Moderator

    It just came across as quite rude in my opinion. Having spent the best part of my time gaming being told we're lesser for not using KBM, you'd be more than likely to understand how reading this can see this way, and I get a lot of people telling me the same. (In terms of being stricken down for using a controller. This is why I never go to the Reddit Discord.)

    But I wholeheartedly agree. If we could have more customisation to our controls, remove aim assist, stop the jankiness of small movement.

    As for the UI mix, it's awful. Currently on PS4, you have to go in and out of the messaging box a few times for it to register, and pressing return a few times too.

    Another weird thing for PS4 is that you can't actually use a keyboard and mouse unless you're playing bots.

    But this is less of the point. If we can get these well rounded options for controllers going, we'd be at a better point for mobility to make a return. At the moment, it's in a really bad spot, since aiming really feels like it's on 2 axis, instead of freedom to aim where you like.

    In the Discord Q&A, we clearly asked a few times about aim assist being removed too. The first 2 responses we got were something about Gyro which made no sense, then changing settings in gyro, and then the third one, we got shut down, saying they're never going to remove aim assist or give us the option, which really hurt.

  • @AYYDIMITRI You're not getting the point here mate, people who prefer KB&M have PC and people who prefer controller have consoles. Using controller on PC is possible as well afaik but you're putting yourself at a disadvantage there but it's your choice where as using KB&M on console FPS games is giving yourself a unfair advantage against players using the controller on the platform it was made for hence the comparison to a hacker.

    We don't exactly like the Paladins experience on console either but the way to fix it is to work on improving the aim settings, not to use PC accessories

  • PC

    @CMS said in Let's talk about mobility and TTK in paladins:

    we got shut down, saying they're never going to remove aim assist or give us the option, which really hurt.

    How about making a survey asking console players if they want aim assist to be removed or to have an option to disable it? Maybe if many people answer em decides to reconsider it

  • @OriginalEquinox
    I understand your point clearly.
    But you are failing to understand mine here.

    This game is created and balenced on PC with the performace of the KB&M control system, and should be advised to be played as such.

    If you want to play on controller with only others who use a controller, then that is something that should be toggleable in settings or detected and locked in when you que for a game, putting you in a lobby with controller users, no matter the platform.

    The platform should not define the Meta of the game and the power if its champs by limiting the control system.

    People who would like to play the game at the level of PC play should not have to fork out to purchase a PC when their console runs the game just as well.

    This is not some stint over performance advantage.
    I want to expand the PC playerbase by allowing consoles the option to connect with PC players and perform just well without the frustrations from the limited settings.

  • Moderator

    @marantzz said in Let's talk about mobility and TTK in paladins:

    @CMS said in Let's talk about mobility and TTK in paladins:

    we got shut down, saying they're never going to remove aim assist or give us the option, which really hurt.

    How about making a survey asking console players if they want aim assist to be removed or to have an option to disable it? Maybe if many people answer em decides to reconsider it

    We'd have to get some of the bigger PCL players involved and such. I can certainly try to get the ball rolling, but unless bigger players come in to help, I doubt it would help. I'm welcome to any other ideas.

    As for now, if you'd like to make a new thread about this, please feel free; this is going off-topic now.

  • This post is deleted!

  • I agree with u about the mobility , flanks mobility should be buffed .
    But TTK iin the game is okey
    Cassie big game can be ez countered by open the shields now from tanks it's just 4 seconds or waste its time , the wrong when tanks stand in her face m instead of playing properly ..
    Beside her impulse damage make her burst champions , BUT doesn't mean burst champion = bad , u can counter the cassie high damage by taking hitscan shield she can also do a burst damage with EXACTION and it's lowrated for now
    The thing is we don't want burst meta , but we don't mind some burst champions , simply some champions are different on the another , u shouldn't have all champions just like each other
    Cassie arrows is not hitscan
    Lian burst dmg in one seconds is aint true . because there is drop damage over distance for grace and the normal damage and u cant gurantee that u do 1200 dmg it's usually 950-1050 besside if u rush directly in their face as u do in shooting range (enemy's face ) u will die insta and all ur damage goes for nothing .
    Cassie ultimate is annoying and it should be nerfed from 8 seconds to 6 seconds.

    The real problem in this game are the talents make champion 0 skill\healers aimbot \full aimbot champions(not lian)

    Willo her normal attack is completely aimbot the blast radius soo big and so stupid ( sorry for saying stupid but it's really aimbot and i dont have any word to describe it but this ).
    Bomb king all his normal attack with royal subject talent don't required any skill it's semi aimbot
    Ash explosion radius is so big also , u hit random hits and they be counted.
    Lian has 2 aimbot abilities ( valor 8 sec CD) , Grace (5 CD) i don't like have 2 aimbot abilities in one champion BUT 400 dmg with cooldown is not a problem for me the wrong is when all the normal shoot of the champion is aimbot or semi aimbot.

    Let's talk about healers champions problem ...

    1- Furia

    1- her normal attack semi aimbot
    2-all her heals by Kindle soul is aimbot
    3-if she press f she can do 600 damage aimbot

    2- Seris

    All her heal is aimbot and she heal around the player which she picked to heal by aimbot skill!!! it worse than just normal aimbot even when she underpower but she don't required the skill the real problem is about the skill requirement.

    3- Jenos

    1-all his heals are aimbot even through the walls (no skill requirement)
    2-his grip ( Void grip ) is aimbot skill u don't need to aim on the target.

    His axe hit is semi aimbot IT'S TOO LARGE.

    i'm in Masters\Grandmasters tier and people get to Masters and Grandmasters by playing on those champions only when they playing on the other champions even when it's lian they throw they even can't play lian .
    Even if the Match making is bad , how we supposed to know if it's bad or good if people has full aimbot champions to be boosted to the highest tier ?!

    Always and always and always there are op champion and under power champions no matter u try that's how those games work and personally i don't mind that to happen , the problem is when u have FULL aimbot champions like Willo or BK with royal Subject .
    Because at the end when the came based on skill , even if ur enemies have op champion u can outplay them and win if u are the best!

  • @Archenvu All healers heal by aimbot except Damba.

  • @Archenvu just like you said, there is too much easy damage and that's why TTK shouldn't get too low. I'm ok with low ttk only if the game is made for it and most importantly, ONLY IF HIGH DAMAGE IS HARD TO LAND.
    I'm ok with dealing 1200 burst in 1 sec, but the skill gap then should be really high.
    I remember evie, drogoz, kinessa... back in the day theese champs were the only ones that could deal more than 1000 damage per shot, and all of them were really hard to aim and play as well.
    Paladins isn't really made for rushing people and kill them in 2 shots, paladins is a team based shooter, born in 2016 when maps were much bigger and fights longer.
    In order to kill a tank, you should need team work, not press 2/3 buttons at the same time and melt them, like cassie, strix and lian do.
    Now I don't want estremelly long ttk, with 7000 HP fernando like 3 years ago, but ffs, unnerf squishies and some tank's HP, and get rid of exaggerated EASY burst.

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