Let's talk about mobility and TTK in paladins

  • Let's talk about mobility, that fun thing that 95% of pc players love!
    First of all, there is a difference between combat mobility ( all the abilities you use to confuse enemies or get above them, like evie's blink and shadow step) and tactical mobility (all the abilities you use to reach far/high spots quickly but aren't good in 1v1 combats, for example meave's prowl)... however most of the moviment abilities in paladins can be both tactical and combat (evie's soar, andro's dashes and meave's pounce for example).
    What's the problem with mobility in paladins?
    -it's too low in general
    -the amount of mobility that each class has isn't well balanced

    After all the post ob53 mobility nerfs people started complaining and asking for change reverts.
    Right now hirez and aoc's excuses are:
    -Hypermobility isn't healty for new players and the game
    -Games based on hypermobility aren't popular.

    The "hypermobility" excuse is not valid anymore.
    It could be valid 2 years ago when the characters were much harder to play and mobility in general was hard to counter...
    But right now the game is much easier and mobility is very ez to counter!
    Think about it:
    -Projectiles are now very fast
    -Most of the champions are hitscan
    -There is aim assist for console
    -There are A LOT of CC skills that make all the excapes useless.
    -there are autoaim and reveal abilties
    -hitboxes are HUGE
    -TTK is too low (and it must be fixed as well with mobility)
    Adding old mobility back won't cause any troubles!

    Some skills/talents/cards couldn't even be considered hypermobility but they still got removed and nerfed.
    Old buck's bounce house is an example.
    Bounce house was fair because buck's shotgun had the lowest dps in the game so his flanker potential was enclosed on really high sustain and mobility.
    Yes he had 3000 HP, self heals and two jumps but he used to deal 560 damage per shot and he had to be very close to the enemy to deal max damage.

    Tbh the only hypermobility talents and cards were old accelerant and old teleport.
    Old teleport deserved the nerf but old accelerant can be added back without problems, just reduce the self knockback from 50% to 40% and add some self damage like every other sticky jump from other games -_-
    With self damage people are forced to use poppy bomb smartly instead of spamming it and play aggro every time.
    Bk also has 3 talents all based on spamming burst and CC on backline, an aggro flanky playstyle with would be fun right? Drogoz and willo can do it.

    So adding back mobility would only improve the gameplay and make some charcaters fun again.
    It won't solve all the problems ofc, there is still the ttk issue but at least some players will come back and the game would be enjoyable again.

    Also.. there aren't games based on hypermobility lmao, how can a game being based only on 1 mechanic?
    Such a terrible excuse.
    There are games with very powerful moviment abilties but there are no titles where who has the best mobility wins, it's an FPS game not f****** need for speed XD
    There is hypermobility in tf2 and guess what?? That game is still alive after 12 years and it's still well balanced and fun.
    What's wrong with mobility when you can counter and balance it easly?
    The game has the potential to handle mobility, let paladins be like 2 years ago!

    I also want to talk about TTK (time to kill).
    Currently ttk is very low, not the same as COD or CS:GO ofc but very close to overwatch.
    What's wrong with low ttk??
    Is freaking annoying and not competitive for a game like paladins, where there are many factors that help the players to get kills.
    Adding mobility back won't solve everything, Paladins is just not designed for low TTK.
    Lower the ttk, the more ofter you die in unfair ways.
    I hear so many complains like "lian and cassie deal too much easy burst" , they're right!
    Lian can make powerful burst combos at every range , 1200 eminence + 400 aimbot + 400 aimbot + 400 weapon shot that instadelete every SQUISHY only by aiming 2 shots and pressing 2 buttons that gives you free 800 dmg. Is this fair??
    Cassie deals 680 damage at EVERY RANGE with a SEMIHITSCAN arrow that can be combined with a blast shot that melts every character that tries to flank her.
    She also has a talent that deletes a tank in 4 seconds at every range only by aiming four semihitscan HUGE HITBOXES arrows...
    Oh , don't forget that she also has a CC ability and a powerful ultimate, the only fair thing she has is her roll.
    Fun fact, basically all the characters now have this easy spammable burst that deletes every squishy in 1 sec (because HP got nerfed too)
    Oh right, we can also INCREASE the damage with damage amp skills and talents like FIELD STUDY, LUMINARY and HUNTING PARTY.
    Oh right, we also have all the anti-mobility mechanics I mentioned before:

    -CC skills like cripple, slow, knockback etc.
    -HUGE HITBOXES (lian ult, imani fireballs, ash burst cannon, cassie arrows and much more)

    • a lot of hitscan characters and fast projectiles blasters like drogoz, dredge and bk
    • AUTOAIM and REVEALS* that can't be countered

    IS IT FAIR TO HAVE LOW TTK when we have all theese non-sense easy mechanics?
    I want to deserve every kill and death, not kill and die because most of the champions have now a ton of damage and only 2200 HP.
    Don't ignore low ttk and low mobility, unnerf THEM!

    THIS IS A REPOST FROM THE OLD FORUMS, I don't know if I'm allowed to repost my old threads, I just want to keep alive two discussions on this new forum.
    If you moderators don't want tho, feel free to close them 🙂

  • Completely agree with you. You know how the game looks like at higher elo? You play characters like Cassie, Lian, Strix, BK, peak around corners and burst your enemies down. All flanks except Maeve and Evie are bad, cuz no range and no mobility, no diving potential. Speaking of Cassie, she has been the best damage dealer in the game, and that's for a long time, she can burst down any flank in a 1v1 (both on close and on long range). And yes, as you said, many people quit because of the stupid burst meta and low ttk. So bringing mobility back and nerfing TTK would surely bring old players back.

  • Banned

    I just wanna mention that aim assist on console isn't really a reliable arguement as aim assist is really bad.
    I'm a console players and yea, aim assist helps but it's about 99% actual person and skill and 1% aim assist

    I saw you mention aim assist and felt the need to mention how unreliable it is. Not arguing against or for your point, simply the aim asisst .

  • @Okamikai30 Tbh I've never played paladins on console so I based my "aim assist" point on other's people experience so ofc it can be wrong.
    From what I heard the meta on console is fully auto hitscan rifles with autoaim like talus, viktor, tyra or vivian right??

  • Banned

    @Driggydrug yea pretty much.
    If you wanna be "good" on console, that's what you go with. They're the easiest champions for console players to play, autoaim or otherwise.

  • Switch

    oh driddy's here too, hi.

    i wasnt playing this game back then so my input doesnt matter. But even though i play on console i would love to see more mobility and less burst get added to the game, because lets be honest, this burst meta shit isnt everyone's favorite

  • I think we must delete all damage buffs like tyras hunter mark. give flankers more mobility and less range at damage less damage overall, damagers need damage nerfs too. Tanks are fine except some damage nerfs needed example atlas, Give Supports more Hp more mobility or and self sustain but nerf healing some tanks need hp buffs or better shields

  • @V4nah31m said in Let's talk about mobility and TTK in paladins:

    I think we must delete all damage buffs like tyras hunter mark. give flankers more mobility and less range at damage less damage overall, damagers need damage nerfs too. Tanks are fine except some damage nerfs needed example atlas, Give Supports more Hp more mobility or and self sustain but nerf healing some tanks need hp buffs or better shields

    Yes, completely agree. Especially this Tyra Mark is completely stupid and braindead. There is zero counterplay to it, the entire enemy team knows where someone is AND gets 25% damage boost, that's completely insane. She has her marks up all the time. No idea what HiRez is doing all day but they gotta nerf this shit.

  • Yeah hunting party can be a pain to go against but it's her only viable talent above trash tier where everyone is using burn monster no matter the map or mode, but instead of nerfing that it should be reworked entirely imo.
    Maybe give her a speed aura that affects her and nearby allies or only have the damage amp if Tyra is actively firing at the target, that should make it a more active ability and easier to counter rather than a brain-dead press and forget bullseye that screams "shoot me"

  • I'd like to mention that aim assist is the worst thing to exist for console and that mobility back in the old days was way more better even on console (personal opinion)

  • Moderator

    @Pr0j3ct97 said in Let's talk about mobility and TTK in paladins:

    I'd like to mention that aim assist is the worst thing to exist for console and that mobility back in the old days was way more better even on console (personal opinion)

    Aim assist kills people more than it helps.

  • I was completely driven out of playing on console. The performance of the controller was poor and I have a better aiming experience in other games.

    The aim assist mechanic that reduces sensitivity when aiming near players threw of my snap aiming and traking a bit much that it made it difficult to follow an airborn target. Bare in mind this was awhile ago. Since then they have made adjustments I have yet to truely get a feel of, but I prefered to play with keyboard and mouse, even with console, and I would strongly recommend ingame information that informs players to trial using keyboard and mouse on some champs that are poor to play without it.

    Another point is that the ability to adjust sensitivity was janky. Three variable settings do not provide enough variation to modify sensitivity and should be altered to a slider.

    Even when playing with a mouse, the game limits you to playing with the three settings that the controler has, forcing the player to get a mouse with sensitivity adjustmenting features. Having to get a mouse with customizable dpi is also iffy as consoles may or may not support alternating dpi with a particular mouse brand.

    And before someone says "play with a controller" I will say no. The game is crossplay now, and keyboard and mouse is an arena shooter must have to play without as much limitations.

  • @AYYDIMITRI As someone who would pick a projectile champion over a Viktor or Talus anyday I can confirm that aim assist is only good when it's being used in a argument by a PC player, besides that it's trash and makes me question my skill level because I've missed kills I shouldn't have and gotten some as well. One such example is a TDM where I was Strix and a enemy Maeve managed to sneak up on me while I was busy trying to hit a Lex in the distance and the game violently dragged my crosshairs off the guy I was aiming at and locked onto the poor guy who spent god knows how long to sneak up on me.

    But using KB&M against controller users is as bad as hacking because of the massive advantage it gives you, I've once faced a level 8 Cassie who destroyed my whole team repeatedly with a level of accuracy not even players in masters or GM have shown.
    What Hirez needs to do is play something like Apex Legends on console and see how well their settings work, then try to implement that into Paladins, we deserve that much atleast.

  • Look, shooters since the 90s have been using KB&M for a good reason, the reactive aim is much better to work with, and pretty much deifine the meta of the game.

    If you compare it to hacking.... I simply will laugh... why bother using a controller in a shooter environment, its like a knife to a gun fight.

    Which is why I stated... there should be ingame advice that tells you to gravitate to using KB&M for a better game play experience.

    (Cause Grover & Evie on Controller were aids asf to play.)

    It should common logic to use them to play these sorts of games.
    Why add crossplay with PC if you are going be limited to controller...

    Also keyboards and a mouse are cheap asf to purchase, even cheaper then a controller so why not.

    The only issue is that the support for the controller and KB&M settings are pretty basic on console.

  • One time I tried to play an fps with a controller on my friend's ps4 and I couldn't aim at all , even after some sens adjustments -_-
    I had to use keyboard and mouse, it was much better than controller but idk why it felt weird.
    Moviments were strange, slow, lazy, I thought there was a delay between my mouse moviments and the game moviments... bruh.
    I will never play on console again, even with keyboard and mouse, I have a nintendo switch at home but I will never install an fps on it, I'll just keep playing pokemon xD.
    Btw I agree with @AYYDIMITRI , it is better to play with keyboard and mouse with certain characters, hirez should mention it on the tutorial. You can find a decent mouse even for 40€ , the keyboard doesn't matter , even a 10€ one is fine 🙂
    I repeat, the performance isn't the same of pc, but still better than controller for some characters.
    And crossplay imo is just crap and makes the balancement difficult for every platform.
    There are different metas for each platform, it is impossible to balance them.

  • PC

    @Driggydrug said in Let's talk about mobility and TTK in paladins:

    You can find a decent mouse even for 40€

    Even 10€ mouses are fine, I've had mine for two years and works like the first day

  • I played on PC with controller movement and a mouse to aim...
    It is clunky asf for the UI to process, often threw my abilities window off screen...
    But not being limited to 45 degree movement was perfect for AA Rukus back in the day.

  • Moderator

    @AYYDIMITRI Yes yes, PC master race. But you gotta realise that we console potatoes use a controller and don't want aim assist. What you said doesn't bring anything to the discussion, you're basically saying rambling facts that's been done to death by every PC elitist out there.

  • PC

    @CMS said in Let's talk about mobility and TTK in paladins:

    But you gotta realise that we console potatoes use a controller and don't want aim assist

    I think he meant that even on console you can play with m&k and that would help with the disadvantage. Also, isn't there an option in game that disables aim assist? I ask because I am not sure

  • @CMS the points that I have made are as followed.

    • Better variable sensitivity ajustment for controller.

    • Alternate sensitivity adjustment system for KB&M on console.

    • Advising use of KB&M on characters who perform poorly on Controller as platform / controller should not define the meta of the game.

    • UI is janky when using both controller and KB&M simultaniously.

    • On the point of aim assist, since it cannot be toggled on and off, it still effects KB&M the same making it annoying to play for projectile champions the same as controller and OP for hitscan on KB&M.

    These are my clearly stated issues that ought to be addressed other then the aim assist issue others have previously mentioned, I am making a statement here about other reasons that Driggy has not touched on.

    If players wish to play with only other controller users then a setting to limit a persons games to be only partied with controller users would be advised.

    Its not a matter of "PC master race" its a about being able to actually play and enjoy champions properly, no matter the platform. Stating that I am rambling pointless facts is a bit rude for a moderator.

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