Anyone else disappointed with the balance changes?



  • @TTraw said in Anyone else disappointed with the balance changes?:

    @HeartQueen said in Anyone else disappointed with the balance changes?:

    Imani is tragic. Imagine thinking that a 1.5 second root on a champion with a 43% winrate is oppressive, but a champion with over a 50% winrate geets a 2.5 second stun. Who is in charge of balancing?

    I have to reply to this, because Imani changes aren't tragic. Imani is great on PTR. Her glide is so fast now since they fixed a glitch that made her Pyretic Momentum not work AND added 10% move speed at base. It's ~37.5% faster at Pyretic Momentum 5 than it is at live version if I can do math. It can work as a good escape tool now. And it's not like she didn't keep her firepower while getting an actual escape tool.

    I actually managed to unmount horse next to base and start flying to point faster tahn just riding it on most maps now with Pyretic Momentum 5 and Pilgrimage 2-3.

    Additional 1 second on Frost Fire glide feels just way too freaking good. It helps her with getting back to fight faster after ult, and makes her harder to catch. It's amazing.

    Ice Bolts feel so good too. You can actually aim with those properly since they don't swap sides randomly, and cornerpeeking is actually possible now. This is amazing.

    Fire stance no longer has AIR INACCURACY. I screamed when I saw this change. Not only it fixes the air-inaccuracy-on-ground bug, it also make her kit more synergistic. Fire stance never felt so good.

    Not to mention bulldozer and resilience nerfs, that make her abilities this much better. I think her dragon needs a nerf in HP because of this change.

    Stance switching is better too, you no longer are forced to spend any points into RMBs/Q cards to get value out of switching.

    For all of those changes, I can gladly exchange less root duration.

    I still think that Imani's LMB talents should be reworked, with Ice getting Splitting ice to base kit (nerfed ofc), because Ice primary fire feels on the weaker side compared to Fire,without a purpose, and Pyromania is just useless,but ignoring that, Imani's good now.

    What she truly needs now is some bugfixes. But Srixis already mentioned on the patch preview that they saw a post on reddit listing a lot of bugs (probably mine) and that they are working on them. I can't wait.


    I got Flanknando back, Imani feels great, Seris is amazing now. This patch feels so good for me, probably because they fixed all my mains, and I hope they will make more adjustments so that your favourite champions get better too.

    Also, I managed to outheal healers as freaking healing Skye now, it's so crazy to me. I wish they also helped flank Skye, tho. Maybe reduce hidden's duration but give her +60% move speed or sth.

    Few things in particular I didn't like, were Maeve buffs, Ash nerfs, and the fact they threw Cherish Furia into the bottom of the ocean. Barik's Tinkerin got way too hard nerfed, I understand they needed it but it's too much of a sledgehammer nerf, noone is going to use this talent and Bowling Ball. Evie's hp card is questionable too. I wonder if that will make her overpowered.

    Io's dog not getting HP nerf when bulldozer gets nerfed this hard is a huge mistake.

    Jenos is still Lumi bot, unfortunately. Dam it, I hate having him on my team cuz his heals suck, and on enemy team cuz of that ridiculous damage boost.

    Also I don't understand Nimble/Morale Boost/Reju nerfs, but rest of item changes are fine, including Caut. I like the fact that you will be able to get 4 items maxed now in your matches. I don't think I ever managed to do that. Veteran needs to be reworked tho.

    Imani's still pretty weak as far as her damage goes. That root was the only thing she had going for her.

    Skye isn't supposed to be a healer, Skye is a flank. People don't want to change Moji and Skye to support, but they want their support talents buffed? I don't mind meme culture in games as far as cosmetics (meme sprays, meme avatars, meme skins, etc.). I hate when meme culture affects game balance (support Skye and Moji because memes, Torvald bubble bot support because memes, etc.). People don't talk about this, but memelords ruin games in a subtle way.

    Jenos is pretty much what I knew would happen. Heals are being nerfed, tanks self sustain is being nerfed, but the damage remains as bursty as ever. Now the best support are Ying, Mal'Damba, Seris, Pip, Torvald, and Skye. Ying, Mal'Damba, and Seris provide a bunch of burst healing that's strong until at least Caut 2 comes to play. Torvald projects a shield, can burst heal his target for up to 375 per shield, can provide ammo regeneration, speed boost, and damage boost. Skye can heal for up to 537 per second with smoke screen, she can speed boost allies, she gives them extra reload speed, and ammo regeneration. Why play Skye as a flank when she's better as a healer, especially since her weak flanking capabilities were nerfed?
    The only use her debilitate talent has now is bursting Inara, Raum, Makoa, and Ash for that percent damage.



  • @HeartQueen said in Anyone else disappointed with the balance changes?:

    That root was the only thing she had going for her.

    I find it hard to believe. I always though it was the worst part of her kit (even before it's nerf). It's slow and countered by Resilience, and I barely managed to kill someone with it (mostly because her freaking ice bolts missed everytime cuz they decided to shoot left instead of right).

    I played a lot of Fire Imani over the course of past few months, and she is silently a monster. I feel it's another Strix situation, not op until pros try it. Mana Rift is just insane on this stance. 2k dmg burst every few seconds for literally free. After playing Fire stancing for so long I decided to play Ice Stance instead, and witnessed what it felt as moving from S tier character to a throw pick.

    I do think Ice Stance needs more buffs, and disagree with Frost Bomb nerf, but saying that Imani's root is the only good thing is false, it wasn't even half as good as her Fire Stance alone. And now she has great ult too, and actual escape option.

    I would say she will be fine.


  • PC

    Actually, in general, I'm not disappointed with the changes now that I go through them all again and play a few hours on the PTS. It's actually more balanced than it was before... Sure there's a good few outliers to this trend (Sha'Lin, Ash, Damba, Torv to name some of the most egregious of them, both ways), but in general it seems like the meta is actually a little bit healthier now. That isn't to say that 3.1 has its fair share of bad changes in the PTS, because oh does it, but for the most part... It's actually surprised me how much better the balancing seems overall.

    Also, they're definitely going to change the meta in ways we cannot even yet foresee, I can be sure about that.



  • I don't like the Fernando buffs. He should have gotten a burst buff with how weak he is, not simply a power shift. Also Maeve was already top flank but I understand they want the beloved cat girl to dominate everyone both gameplay-wise and skin-wise. The rest weren't great but not terrible either.



  • Imo the patch notes are like 50-50. Alot of the changes are good but there are so many changes which was rlly bad. Other than the shield nerfs, I want to list down why I dont like how they nerfed champs like Ying(her BASE healing got nerfed from 420 to 380 in pts), Furia, Raum, Skye and Strix.
    -Ying: Her base healing was bad anyways but they still nerfed it to 380 while they nerfed LE to 700 which is ok. The base healing needs to be buffed or reverted to 420 and maybe have LE nerfed more to compensate.
    -Furia: Her card rework to Light Forge is a bit much cuz it makes Cherish nearly terrible. They could buff the 25% additional heals to 35%-ish to make it nearly as good as Solar Blessing. I guess Cherish still works but it might need a buff in the future.
    -Raum: Raum is incredibly hard-countered by CC and his weapon had alot of falloff at range so the nerf to the base weapon and his card doesnt make sense cuz it was never strong and he is pretty much mid-tier.
    -Skye: She got a hard nerf without any buff to compensate. All of her cards with dmg and flanking capabilities got nerfed. Her strongest movement speed card Victory Rush got its duration nerfed by HALF(8s->4s). The illuminate nerf helps a bit but it still doesnt make up for the nerfs she got to her flank talents(Both flank talents including even Preparation is still good with the right builds but it all comes down to the player rlly). But I love her Smoke & Dagger change with the move speed and ammo regen benefit to allies. She can still have flanking capabilities with this talent and it might get a push in high tiers.
    -Strix: His pistol nerfs were rlly unnecessary. Although it was rlly strong it was pretty much the most balanced part of his kit. UU needs a bigger nerf tbh cuz the 2 shot combo is still busted. It should get outright nerfed to 250% or anything at all to give players a bit more time to sustain the burst with healing in loadouts or enough time for the support to focus heals on you.
    All the nerfs aside I dont like how they buffed Maeve when she's already the best flank in the game. These are just about all the changes I dont like about season 3. Most of the other changes like for example, the nerf to Atlas and the buff to Lian's Precision are pretty good. There are still alot of champs or cards that need to be adjusted like Vivian's "Nowhere to Hide" card. Its heavily busted and is only ever used at lvl 4-5 against Skye players and needs to be nerfed by half. Its only ever used against 1 champion and is really unhealthy for that situation.



  • This post is deleted!


  • @TTraw said in Anyone else disappointed with the balance changes?:

    @HeartQueen said in Anyone else disappointed with the balance changes?:

    That root was the only thing she had going for her.

    I find it hard to believe. I always though it was the worst part of her kit (even before it's nerf). It's slow and countered by Resilience, and I barely managed to kill someone with it (mostly because her freaking ice bolts missed everytime cuz they decided to shoot left instead of right).

    I played a lot of Fire Imani over the course of past few months, and she is silently a monster. I feel it's another Strix situation, not op until pros try it. Mana Rift is just insane on this stance. 2k dmg burst every few seconds for literally free. After playing Fire stancing for so long I decided to play Ice Stance instead, and witnessed what it felt as moving from S tier character to a throw pick.

    I do think Ice Stance needs more buffs, and disagree with Frost Bomb nerf, but saying that Imani's root is the only good thing is false, it wasn't even half as good as her Fire Stance alone. And now she has great ult too, and actual escape option.

    I would say she will be fine.

    Her root allowed you to get in free damage. Aside from the fireball, which you have to charge up, her ice damage isn't the best. Plus her attacks take time to travel. I don't think we need that 2 second root back, but at least give her something for that root that you took away. Vertical mobility with her frostfire glide, more damage for her ice stance, etc.


  • PC

    I'll say my opinion on the frontlines as a main. Maybe later I'll add the other classes.

    Shields are trash right now... off tank role got harf nerfed maybe not important anymore. I keep watching on pts double flank beating up off tank + damage dealer in the sidelanes so maybe thats the replacement.

    Atlas: got hard nerfed but still playable. Need to test him more but doesnt look like a priority pick anymore.

    Ash: ugh......not even the absurd dmg nerf is her main problem, she had the best shield in the game and her whole kit moved around it but shields are trash now. Looks like worst tank and that makes me sad because she is my most played tank.

    Barik: not a priority anymore, tinkerin was the reason he was so good along with his sustain because he was a point tank that unlike inara nando or term had good range. Maybe that playstyle is still playable with less damage but Im not a fan of non tinkerin builds even though they look better now. Have to test his architectonics build but on paper it doesnt look that good in long maps, barik is based on dealing damage and hold a zone but if the only one who receives your damage is enemy point tank then I doubt its worth.

    Fernando: he loses cdr in his fireball but gets his damage back, actually can work because his shield is not that important for him unlike ash one. He may have a good position in the meta and be one of the top tanks if off tank role is still alive.

    Inara: need more test but she didnt got hurt hard like most frontlines and she got a new talent that looks good in some maps. I believe shes better now than barik.

    Khan: almost as dead as ash, at least this guy shield is not the best part of his kit... Maybe Im overreacting with him and still be fine, dude has received several nerfs since release and still was fine.

    Makoa: even though some people for some reason thinks he got buffed he is in the same situation than atlas. Burst meta rekts him because his huge hitbox and now you are forced to pick pluck to deal damage meaning less hp. his shield is not a important part of his kit so people wont pick wrecker for him meaning that it can be useful sometimes. CC inmumity on ult is the thing that prevent him from being close to ash trash level.

    Terminus: looks like my boi term is back in some maps. After shield nerfs non shield tanks are higher in priority and he got some buffs. The bad part is his ult nerf, every tank cant survive it with ease now and inara laughs her ass on his dmg.
    He may be higher priority than barik but his 1v1 against non tanks is trash so I dont know.

    Need to test the other tanks.

    So yeah, not a fan of the changes.



  • @SNIper-poTAto said in Anyone else disappointed with the balance changes?:

    Imo the patch notes are like 50-50. Alot of the changes are good but there are so many changes which was rlly bad. Other than the shield nerfs, I want to list down why I dont like how they nerfed champs like Ying(her BASE healing got nerfed from 420 to 380 in pts), Furia, Raum, Skye and Strix.
    -Ying: Her base healing was bad anyways but they still nerfed it to 380 while they nerfed LE to 700 which is ok. The base healing needs to be buffed or reverted to 420 and maybe have LE nerfed more to compensate.
    -Furia: Her card rework to Light Forge is a bit much cuz it makes Cherish nearly terrible. They could buff the 25% additional heals to 35%-ish to make it nearly as good as Solar Blessing. I guess Cherish still works but it might need a buff in the future.

    None of the supports needed a nerf. Really, with the burst meta, we needed sustain to counter it. If Hi-Rez brought back all of the problematic metas and put it into one, this game would be balanced. Mobility meta, self sustain meta, and burst meta. Mobility meta is countered by CC (Torvald, Imani, Io, etc.) and burst damage (Lian, Cassie, and Bomb King). Self sustain meta and Burst meta would directly counter each other (burst heals countered by caut and burst damage, while burst damage is countered by self sustain and burst healing). Flanks would be able to counter the burst healing and the consistent damage (like Vivian and Viktor). Just nerf Caut and Resilience (as frustrating as it is to get stunned, crippled, and rooted, this would be a good counter, aside from flat burst, to counter mobility) to even it out, and nerf Willo's deadzone from 100% uncounterable caut, to 90% caut that's countered by rejuvenate and cards/talents (like it would be brought down to 60% while Earthen Guard is active for Inara). It may not work, but it's worth a shot.

    Ying actually needed a buff to her base kit and Resonance. Time to heal reduced from 1.6s-->1s. Focusing Lens in her base kit. Resonance illusion damage nerfed from 500-->400 per illusion, and the expired/destroyed, but not shattered, illusions heal for 400 per explosion. Third talent would be something to do with dimensional link or bringing lifelike back. Furia is getting destroyed with this patch. Furia's damage is tied to her healing. Larger cooldown means less healing, which means less damage. So now she gets subpar healing numbers, unless you go the now mandatory Solar Blessing, AND bad damage numbers.

    -Raum: Raum is incredibly hard-countered by CC and his weapon had alot of falloff at range so the nerf to the base weapon and his card doesnt make sense cuz it was never strong and he is pretty much mid-tier.

    The nerfs to Raum and Ash were pretty random. Like I don't remember them being that oppressive. Then again, the first week Raum got released, I played a bunch of Burn Monster Tyra (hehehe).

    -Skye: She got a hard nerf without any buff to compensate. All of her cards with dmg and flanking capabilities got nerfed. Her strongest movement speed card Victory Rush got its duration nerfed by HALF(8s->4s). The illuminate nerf helps a bit but it still doesnt make up for the nerfs she got to her flank talents(Both flank talents including even Preparation is still good with the right builds but it all comes down to the player rlly). But I love her Smoke & Dagger change with the move speed and ammo regen benefit to allies. She can still have flanking capabilities with this talent and it might get a push in high tiers.

    I actually dislike the Smoke and Dagger change. It made her a support instead of a flank. Meme culture lowkey ruins the balance of some games. Skye and Moji as supports because memelords. The only thing they needed to do with Skye was change Smoke and Dagger, nerf Debilitate, and change smoke screen to a movement ability (teleport or wall climb?). Instead Smoke and Dagger makes her more like a support, and her flank cards got nerfed. Basically, why play Skye as a flank when you can just play her as a support. The only thing you give up when playing Smoke and Dagger is the tank shred of Debilitate

    -Strix: His pistol nerfs were rlly unnecessary. Although it was rlly strong it was pretty much the most balanced part of his kit. UU needs a bigger nerf tbh cuz the 2 shot combo is still busted. It should get outright nerfed to 250% or anything at all to give players a bit more time to sustain the burst with healing in loadouts or enough time for the support to focus heals on you.

    Strix just need to be reworked to be similar to Grover, and UU damage nerfed in half. Like have has Sniper deal 1,000 body shot at close range and the normal 1200 body shot at long range (1,500-1,800 headshot). That way he's easier to deal with at close range, but not neutered for his long range engagements. His pistol didn't really need a nerf. The only thing that made his pistol annoying was the crackshot talent. Maybe lower the increased damage from 20% to 10% Replace Nocturnal with a reworked Ambush talent: your first sniper shot in stealth/coming out of stealth has an extra 15% bonus damage, but only for the sniper. Other than that, he's good. I don't want to nerf him too hard because Kinessa already has more damage and mobility. Strix is better at fighting off flankers and firing his shot faster than her. I want them both to be viable for different things.

    All the nerfs aside I dont like how they buffed Maeve when she's already the best flank in the game. These are just about all the changes I dont like about season 3. Most of the other changes like for example, the nerf to Atlas and the buff to Lian's Precision are pretty good. There are still alot of champs or cards that need to be adjusted like Vivian's "Nowhere to Hide" card. Its heavily busted and is only ever used at lvl 4-5 against Skye players and needs to be nerfed by half. Its only ever used against 1 champion and is really unhealthy for that situation.

    I agree. Maeve didn't need a buff, if anything she needs a nerf. I think they need to make her projectiles slower or give them damage falloff. Slower Projectiles make her more like Evie where it takes more skill to use (or damage falloff so she isn't a sniper). Cat Burglar's bonus damage needed to be nerfed to 15%, and Street Justice needs to be replaced with the artful dodger, but add that it also cleanses other things like burns, cauterize, poison, etc. This will make her more balanced and viable. A Flank that can cleanse effects and crowd control, self heal in her base kit, a lot of mobility, and damage reduction/self heal in cards. She would still be in a good spot. As of now though, the only thing saving Maeve from being truly busted is the fact that her ultimate sucks.



  • @OriginalEquinox They nerfed Strix and buffed Kinessa because Strix outclassed Kinessa. He could go invis in snipe battles and UU allowed him to melt flanks with little to no skill--while Kinessa could be melted in seconds, forcing her mains to always use reposition.



  • @Heartstrife I only play her with the headshot talent and have been able to survive GM duos looking for easy kills as well, her carbine feels weak because of the slower fire rate and bullet spread but if you land a few headshots it actually does quite a bit of damage to squishies, and they have no chance if you predict their movements with a few well placed mines and welcome them with a crispy headshot when they take a corner, fixing her teleporter bugs would make her more viable without any buffs even.

    Strix on the other hand absolutely needs his damage to be of any use in a match because without it he's just a free kill since his only defensive ability is hard countered by one item, if they nerfed or removed UU and reduced the headshot multiplier he would be a lot more balanced while staying relevant I think, his current buffs would just make him more noob friendly but he'll stay cancerous in the hands of someone who knows how to use him properly.


Log in to reply