Who needs a buff and who needs a nerf in PTS?


  • PC

    I think that this may be a bit of a controversial post in some regards, but I really think its necessary for me to log who I think is too strong and too weak in current PTS. Of course, I'll give a general idea of what makes them too strong/too weak, though if I went further, understand this would be an essay length post. Also this is from the perspective of a PC player using Steam. Anyways:

    (Nerf) Damba: GOURD. HEALS. ARE. DISGUSTING. They need to be nerfed WAY down. I mean 600 healing per second is absurd, especially with the nerfed caut.
    (Nerf) Maeve: Her burst is too confirmable and consistent, and she has way too good of sustained damage for a flank. Why they buffed her in PTS is beyond me.
    (Nerf) Lian: Pretty much same story as Maeve, except Lian's a damage. Nerf Eminince builds, and the Presence CDR card. Like EVERYONE's asked for HOW long?
    (Nerf) Torvald: I mean they did indirectly nerf him in the recent update of the PTS, but Thanks, Grandpa is too strong, and some of his shield cards are too good also.
    (Nerf) Strix: Okay, they already nerfed him.. But... IT. WASN'T. ENOUGH. his Talon Rifle still two-shots most of the champions in the game.
    (Nerf) Ying: They did nerf her deployable heals, which is good, but her illusions are too strong with current Dozer. Buff Dozer and she'll be fine.
    (Nerf) Barik: He seems like he has a little too much sustain on PTS. Though Dozer and Wrecker buffs are enough to fix that issue.

    (Buff) Khan: He is pretty much useless on PTS. They totally gutted him... He needs some of his DPS back, and he really needs a buff to Battle Shout and his shield.
    (Buff) Sha'Lin: What were they thinking with this rework? They nerfed his DPS (and DIDN'T actually buff his mobility) massively... Give some back.
    (Buff) Ash: She has a similar story to Khan. She got gutted... Most of her changes need to be reverted. But nerf her Flak AoE. THAT'S the ONLY nerf she maybe needed.
    (Buff) Grohk: He's sucked for so long, and they did nothing to fix that in PTS. Ghost Walk is almost useless, his heals still suck...
    (Buff) Tyra: Make her more than a worse Vivian with tank shred. She actually got nerfed, and I have no idea why. She's not even any good on Live...
    (Buff) Lex: All the other flanks got buffed, but Lex and Talus got excluded... Make his Q more than a wasted ability slot, make his talents better... Something.
    (Buff) Willo: Honestly, it pains me to say this, but Willo is worse in most ways over other blasters. She needs more damage, she's bad on PTS...

    EDIT: Removed a couple of buff suggestions for the sake of even-ness.



  • They updated the PTS, and made some changes that you requested.

    • Barik's sustain with the new card that heals per turret shot has been nerfed. Though his shield got buffed.
    • Khan and Ash have better shields.

    As for the other stuff;

    • It's too soon for Torvald to be considered strong, and it's nice to be able to actually play him at all since wrecker no longer completely invalidates his entire existence.
    • Ying is fine. The only reason her heals are better are because everyone else's heals were nerfed by comparison.
    • As with Ying, Damba is only strong because everyone else got their heals nerfed.
    • For Strix, I agree that he needs a nerf. His pistol nerf is fine, but his Talon Rifle also needs a nerf, maybe nerf it with 100 or so less damage just so that Strix isn't nearly as toxic to deal with.
    • I don't like Lian at all, but I'm not sure if she needs a nerf.
    • Maeve is weird. I don't know about her.
    • Tyra doesn't need anything. Cauterize was nerfed which itself makes her stronger now, as she can rely more on her lifesteal.
    • Sha Lin is in a better spot before with the new abilities. Before, using Planted was basically a suicide button unless you were as far away from the fight as possible. And his mobility never needed a buff to begin with considering how he already has a massive leap that makes him invisible.
    • Grohk's heals are fine, if you know how to use them. In fact, Grohk himself is good with certain loadouts, but people don't really understand how to effectively heal with him. That being said; as a Grohk main myself, I agree that his base Ghost Walk is absolutely terrible and definitely needs a buff to its base duration.
    • Lex is fine. Leave him be. He doesn't need to be any more annoying than he already is. The only thing I would change about him is to allow him to choose his Retribution target rather than having it be completely random, and make it so that there is a cooldown for hunting an enemy after they die, preventing them from being hunted again for a time.
    • Willo does not need more damage. If she gets more damage, she will be a burst carry. Maybe she needs a touch more health or maybe a mobility boost but more damage on Willo would be terrible to deal with.


  • Willo needs something done to seedling that allows it to be somewhat useful other then momentary damage zoning, and positioning punishment, which her inhand attack does well, and her anti heal field can provide. Seedling to me is the only iffy thing in her kit that could be worked on to do the same role, but better in a different way. Deployable cluster of proximity mines, larger aoe and poison damage over time over unconfirmable burst, something to trigger on direct hits.... anything to improve the damage consistancy of that would be my bet.

    Ash needs a bit of work.. but I can go on a rant about that later, in short, she needs her HP dialed back in order to add a bit more pressure to her attack, probably with burning or something, some form of lesser battering ram in base kit, and small cripple to her knockback abilities to make it cancel out active movement abilities.

    Fernando making the base Fireball CD longer in order to support Scorch is odd... Ruckus gets 3 missiles he gets to use with primary fire. Without scorch, fireball is not much of a dps boost and the power creep of ranged damage vs the chips at Fernando's durablity leaves him zoned back on the open maps. Just do a 1v1 between rukus and fernando and you will see what I mean, he is just not able to fight it at high tiers and is at best just a meat shield to get in the way.
    Fernando needed less Fireball CD to give him sustainable ranged bruising.
    Due to Fernando's weapon being a tragic choice for wrecker and dozer, his Fireball ought to sustain the ability to transfer weapon attack effects like caut, wrecker and dozer... otherwise low dps tanks are going to be annoyed by the new high hp deployables with no way to kill them at range.

    Koa... ult HP and ult lockout with active shield jank needs to be solved... they should could allow leviathan to enable you to cast shell shield during ult while swinging anchor in order to block damage and RIP AND TEAR THROUGH A CORRIDOR.... to make it more worthwhile now that the sheild can't be canceled with shield piercing CC due to CC immunity.

    Buck... idk... I still feel like net shot's ensnare needs to cripple inorder to make it less counterable by champs with instant cleanse and high mobility, and make it a viable team utility pick. Honestly I just want Bucks ult to be like a maeve reset... but the total bro chad version... reloads all ammo, resets jump and recovery.

    Inara, earthen guard removes the self slow of weapon for duration.... reduce midair inaccuracy with staff... reduce additional healing from all sources, enable passive regeneration. Cc immunity on earthen guard by default (if you are going to have khans ult have a range of like what 180 units at base (like 4 dashes) then inara and torv need Cc immunity at base to go against it.)

    Grover, minimum damage 450 max damage 900, remove mid air inaccuracy.
    Cripple time increased to 1.5s.

    Khan.
    Shield always regenerates even while active, just at lesser values.
    Storm Bolter... average out the fire rate differance between normal and storm of bullets, remove talent, reduce damage at range. Give an average of 580 - 680 dps in close quarters.
    Battle shout... cleanses CC for 1s on self and allies, high CDs require high potential impact.
    Ult duration reduced to 4s. Range reduced to 40 units so you need to be in close proximity to the foe for it to trigger.. Return aim assisted ult, but severly reduced range... so khan has to linger closer to the frontlines of combat in order to have that impact. (the longer the distance, the longer the player lockout. At near max range it is almost an additional full second of lockout time, and you can die while being pulled from that distance.)
    Firing Line talent returned place of storm of bullets, Battle Shout amps damage of effected targets by %15 for 3s and gives them a bit of healing over time to extend the ally elim window to reset your abilities with elimCDR and farm ult. For moments of greater suppression damage, less overall self damage but greater ally sustain and self recovery, to create this hybrid tank support that can muscle support his allies to victory if they throw more damage then they can eat.
    A card to gain a personal shield on hitting a target with command grab.
    A card to increase the distance of command grab, to counter the Ult range nerf idea.
    A larger and safer shield talent that covers his head and is slightly larger in size and HP on top of improving the shield regeneration.

    Just a few thoughts about some brawler characters... we could be here all day about ranting about this.



  • This wasn't on your list but I personally think Pip needs some love after they nerfed his dps playstyle even further and the fact that his cards were nerfed. (the new cd one is great though)


  • PC

    @FarceDawn said in Who needs a buff and who needs a nerf in PTS?:

    This wasn't on your list but I personally think Pip needs some love after they nerfed his dps playstyle even further and the fact that his cards were nerfed. (the new cd one is great though)

    Honestly, he actually got buffed, overall. Healing with him feels a lot better now... The reworked Acrobat's Trick is such a godsend for Mega Pot builds, and I think it might be a buff that effects Combat Medic as well, have to see if it works if you use it to heal.

    The DPS playstyle isn't the only playstyle that exists...


  • PC

    @Vampragon43 said in Who needs a buff and who needs a nerf in PTS?:

    They updated the PTS, and made some changes that you requested.

    • Barik's sustain with the new card that heals per turret shot has been nerfed. Though his shield got buffed.
    • Khan and Ash have better shields.

    As for the other stuff;

    • It's too soon for Torvald to be considered strong, and it's nice to be able to actually play him at all since wrecker no longer completely invalidates his entire existence.
    • Ying is fine. The only reason her heals are better are because everyone else's heals were nerfed by comparison.
    • As with Ying, Damba is only strong because everyone else got their heals nerfed.
    • For Strix, I agree that he needs a nerf. His pistol nerf is fine, but his Talon Rifle also needs a nerf, maybe nerf it with 100 or so less damage just so that Strix isn't nearly as toxic to deal with.
    • I don't like Lian at all, but I'm not sure if she needs a nerf.
    • Maeve is weird. I don't know about her.
    • Tyra doesn't need anything. Cauterize was nerfed which itself makes her stronger now, as she can rely more on her lifesteal.
    • Sha Lin is in a better spot before with the new abilities. Before, using Planted was basically a suicide button unless you were as far away from the fight as possible. And his mobility never needed a buff to begin with considering how he already has a massive leap that makes him invisible.
    • Grohk's heals are fine, if you know how to use them. In fact, Grohk himself is good with certain loadouts, but people don't really understand how to effectively heal with him. That being said; as a Grohk main myself, I agree that his base Ghost Walk is absolutely terrible and definitely needs a buff to its base duration.
    • Lex is fine. Leave him be. He doesn't need to be any more annoying than he already is. The only thing I would change about him is to allow him to choose his Retribution target rather than having it be completely random, and make it so that there is a cooldown for hunting an enemy after they die, preventing them from being hunted again for a time.
    • Willo does not need more damage. If she gets more damage, she will be a burst carry. Maybe she needs a touch more health or maybe a mobility boost but more damage on Willo would be terrible to deal with.

    This was done way after the update actually. The Ash shield buff made zero difference, and neither did Khan's. Barik did get worthwhile nerfs, but his sustain is STILL too good.

    I don't think it's in any way too soon to say hes broken. New Wrecker makes using him as a shield bot as good, if not even better than it was with old Field Study.

    Ying is probably one of the less egregious examples, but I disagree. Her illusions are a little too hard to deal with on PTS, and it makes her healing the second best in the class.

    What are you even on to say that's the only reason Damba's strong? Do you even know the damned numbers on his healing? 600 PER F***ING SECOND. NO SUPPORT HAS EVER HAD THAT KIND OF HEALING EXCEPT FURIA. And THAT WAS BEFORE CAUT NERFS. After, well, the talent Furia used to achieve that became pretty much useless.

    Lian definitely needs a nerf on PTS. They actually buffed her. She is even on the strong side in live but on PTS she's surely an S+ character.

    Maeve is busted on PTS. New Predation is ridiculous, and this was on a character that was already in need of a little nerfing to begin with.

    Tyra needs a LOT. The Caut nerfs don't really help her out enough, compared to pretty much making every talent that isn't named Burn Monster into an utter joke. And her DPS was nerfed as well, which NOBODY asked for.

    Lol no. You could cancel old Planted, so not really a suicide button. It dealt actual damage, which his replacement doesn't. His mobility definitely did need a buff. 15 second cooldown on Withdraw was stupid long, even if his Wanderlust card made up for it, to a degree. But now yes Withdraw got buffed, but they gutted Wanderlust so they debateably NERFED his mobility. And the little bit of CC is not enough.

    Tell that to pretty much everyone who's played with Heal Grohk's that consistently underheal other supports. They'd probably laugh. And the Caut nerfs helped him less than literally every other support in the game. His issue isn't Caut's effectiveness, it's his heals just generally sucking compared to every other support.

    Lex is definitely not fine the way he is on PTS. Every other flanker got something, but Lex who was already mediocre to begin with didn't. Literally the only thing that made Lex work was the rework to Death Hastens. Before that, he was pretty much the worst character in the game. And after he was kind of good, until it got nerfed a bit. Now he's the only flank except Talus that got no buffs on PTS, and Talus even got an indirect buff from the Caut nerf, so, really it only leaves Lex in that boat.

    Willo definitely needs more damage on PTS. On live she's not too bad, but since she pretty much got nothing (actually, she got nerfed if anything) and most champions got buffed in PTS, she needs something now.

    Honestly reading some of this made me even wonder if you've actually played PTS, looked at the numbers, or really anything before you decided to post this critique that makes it sound like you don't know what you're talking about. I've been playing it pretty much exclusively over the live version since it originally came out.



  • @Dusklicious I’m not saying only that playstyle exists I normally heal with pip anyway. All I’m saying is that people who use that talent are getting their favorite playstyle nerfed repeatedly layering nerfs onto a playstyle is never fun
    I also mentioned that i love his new cd card for potion. The recent caut change in pts also helps him since 2s versus 1.5 secs means a lot for burst healers like pip.


  • PC

    • Moji: I don't understand the Moji DR buffs yet the damage output remains the same. The Moji's mains will be coming out of the wood work.

    • Tyra: I'm a bit peeved they messed with my Tyra. A 12% primary weapon damage nerf in return for 18% less damage falloff and more ammo? Nerfed the base firebomb too. Also with the Nimble nerf I'm likely going to need L2 to get enough movement speed where I'm usually good with L1 now. I know there are speed cards but I would have to sacrifice other needed cards and those speed cards don't even work full time.

    IMO, Tyra should have the highest movement speed of all the damages. Willo's movement speed is the same as Tyra's - 375 - Why? Willo has Flutter where Tyra has no mobility ability. Vivian also has the same base speed and a shield for protection.

    How about:

    • Add a second nade charge to the base kit and replace Mercy Kill with a new talent. Even though I use this talent the most I'm willing to give it up for 2 charges.
    • Increase her movement speed to 385
    • Edit: After comparing PTS with production the DPS should be reverted on top of my other two suggestions.

  • PC

    Bomb King: Countdown card buffed. Fallout card changed to: Increase Grumpy Bomb’s Stun duration by {0.1|0.1}s

    Grumpy stuns for 2s at base. Add the new Fallout card change and you can get 2.5s - not all the BK's have figured this out yet but they will.

    Now consider the resilience nerf [30/60/90] --> [20/40/60]

    Including the new Fallout change with max points, pre resilience nerf, you would have been able to knock that down to .25s with L3 resilience. As it is on PTS right now - you are stuck with a full 1s stun. As luck would have it that's what I went up against in my first PTS match. Let me tell you it's not fun.

    My suggestion is either of the following:

    • Change resilience to [25/50/75] - 2.5s against new L3 resilience would be .625s
    • Nerf BK's Grumpy stun to 1.20s - 1.70s against current L3 resilience would be .68s

    Since there are a lot of other CCs I expect numerous complaints with many champions will arise so maybe just go with the [25/50/75] resilience and be done with it.



  • @Dusklicious said in Who needs a buff and who needs a nerf in PTS?:

    I think that this may be a bit of a controversial post in some regards, but I really think its necessary for me to log who I think is too strong and too weak in current PTS. Of course, I'll give a general idea of what makes them too strong/too weak, though if I went further, understand this would be an essay length post. Also this is from the perspective of a PC player using Steam. Anyways:

    (Nerf) Damba: GOURD. HEALS. ARE. DISGUSTING. They need to be nerfed WAY down. I mean 600 healing per second is absurd, especially with the nerfed caut.
    (Nerf) Maeve: Her burst is too confirmable and consistent, and she has way too good of sustained damage for a flank. Why they buffed her in PTS is beyond me.
    (Nerf) Lian: Pretty much same story as Maeve, except Lian's a damage. Nerf Eminince builds, and the Presence CDR card. Like EVERYONE's asked for HOW long?
    (Nerf) Torvald: I mean they did indirectly nerf him in the recent update of the PTS, but Thanks, Grandpa is too strong, and some of his shield cards are too good also.
    (Nerf) Strix: Okay, they already nerfed him.. But... IT. WASN'T. ENOUGH. his Talon Rifle still two-shots most of the champions in the game.
    (Nerf) Ying: They did nerf her deployable heals, which is good, but her illusions are too strong with current Dozer. Buff Dozer and she'll be fine.
    (Nerf) Barik: He seems like he has a little too much sustain on PTS. Though Dozer and Wrecker buffs are enough to fix that issue.

    Damba's heals didn't need a buff. He already healed well enough if you knew what you were doing. They just wanted to make him more noob friendly.

    Maeve Lian and Strix are victims of Hi-Rez dancing around the issue. They do this with other characters. Instead of changing what needs to be changed, they'll find another problem. Strix just needs UU cut in half and the Grover treatment (1000/1500 damage up close and 1200/1800 damage at range). Maeve just needs a Cat Burglar nerf and to have the artful dodger (but also cleanses all status effects). It's easy to balance these 2, no idea why they won't. Lian is a bit harder. Her only utility is burst, nothing else. If you take away her burst, she'll have nothing. The best thing they can do is take away the damage of grace and make it a strict movement ability, buff her base damage to 450 per shot, give Valor a knockback or stun (and buff her damage to 500), and take away the 4 second cooldown from her eminence).

    Torvald is hard to balance unless they change his kit. He's too team reliant. If he gives barely anything to his teammates, why pick him? If he gives too much to his teammates, then he's broken. Make him less reliant on his team and tone down his synergy. Damage buff, speed buffing, and shielding is okay. Though they should be minor bonuses, not a major part of his kit. Kind of like Khan's ability to heal his allies is a minor bonus, not the main part.

    Ying needs a buff to her base heals, and a nerf to Life Exchange. Barik needs Tinkering back, but just nerf it to a flat 500.

    (Buff) Khan: He is pretty much useless on PTS. They totally gutted him... He needs some of his DPS back, and he really needs a buff to Battle Shout and his shield.
    (Buff) Sha'Lin: What were they thinking with this rework? They nerfed his DPS (and DIDN'T actually buff his mobility) massively... Give some back.
    (Buff) Ash: She has a similar story to Khan. She got gutted... Most of her changes need to be reverted. But nerf her Flak AoE. THAT'S the ONLY nerf she maybe needed.

    Ash was a random nerf. No one really complained about her. It just seemed random. Khan just needed his storm of bullets nerfed, not his dps. His base dps actually sucks to be honest. Maybe his self heal nerfed to 750 for the caut nerfs. Sha'Lin just hasn't been right for a while.

    (Buff) Grohk: He's sucked for so long, and they did nothing to fix that in PTS. Ghost Walk is almost useless, his heals still suck...
    (Buff) Tyra: Make her more than a worse Vivian with tank shred. She actually got nerfed, and I have no idea why. She's not even any good on Live...
    (Buff) Lex: All the other flanks got buffed, but Lex and Talus got excluded... Make his Q more than a wasted ability slot, make his talents better... Something.
    (Buff) Willo: Honestly, it pains me to say this, but Willo is worse in most ways over other blasters. She needs more damage, she's bad on PTS...

    EDIT: Removed a couple of buff suggestions for the sake of even-ness.

    Grohk needs a nerfed Spirit's Domain in his base kit and to bring Wraith back. Tyra was a tank shredder, but she was easy to deal with. Bad poke compared to other damages and a sitting duck to flanks. Lex is just a pseudo damage now. We can thank PC gamers for this. Willo just needed a nerf to her deadzone (90% caut, and countered by card loadouts and rejuvenate). That's it.


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