Item Suggestions


  • PC

    Since @KicsitCsicska made their own post about items here, I had a thought to make my own list of suggestions, which seemed to end up meaning a couple of scraps (with replacements), a couple of reworks, and buffs in general to every item that isn't Cauterize (even with the Season 3 nerfs to the item, Caut is still far too popular and for good reason).


    #anchor(Removals)

    %(#f70a16)[Deft Hands] (Buff Damba, Buck, Pip, and Dredge reload speed by 20% to compensate), %(#0a0ef7)[Illuminate] (Invisibility Rework)


    #anchor(Introductions)

    %(#f70a16)[Buster]- Whenever you deal (400/300/200) damage to a target, deal additional damage to the target equal 1% of the target's maximum health in damage, up to a cap of 75 bonus damage. Cost of (300/600/900) credits. (Triggers once per second after firing)*
    %(#0a0ef7)[Resolve]- After being in-combat for 1 second, gain (6/12/18)% damage reduction until out of combat. Cost of (300/600/900) Credits.


    #anchor(Reworks)

    %(#12cf08)[Veteran]- Increase self-healing received -including through lifesteal- by (8/16/24)%, up to a cap of (100/200/300) per individual use or per second if a persistent effect. Costs (150/300/450) credits.
    %(#12cf08)[Kill to Heal]- Heal for (100/250/400) plus 5% of your maximum health after getting an elimination, up to a cap of (300/500/700) total healing. Costs (200/400/600) credits.
    %(#000000)[Invisibility-] Now whenever an invisible unit moves, they show a (somewhat faint) outline of their character model until they stop moving (Can be seen easier up close than farther away).


    #anchor(Buffs)

    %(#12cf08)[Rejuvenate] Increased healing from outside sources from (5/10/15)% to (8/16/24)%.
    %(#12cf08)[Life Rip]- Decreased cost from (200/400/600) to (150/300/450).
    %(#c7f209)[Nimble]- Increased movement speed increase from (7/14/21)% to (8/16/24)%.
    %(#c7f209)[Morale Boost]- Decreased cost from (250/500/750) to (200/400/600).
    %(#c7f209)[Chronos]- Cooldown reduction increased from (10/20/30)% to (12/24/36)%.
    %(#c7f209)[Master Riding]- Cost decreased from (200/400/600) to (150/300/450)
    %(#f70a16)[Wrecker] Increased damage increase to shields from (20/40/60)% to (25/50/75)%.
    %(#f70a16)[Bulldozer]- Increased damage increase to deployables from (20/40/60)% to (25/50/75)%.
    %(#0a0ef7)[Resilience]- Increased CC Reduction from (20/40/60)% to (25/50/75)%.
    %(#0a0ef7)[Blast Shields and Haven]- Increased reduction for blast and direct damage respectively from (7/14/21)% to (8/16/24)%.

    COMMENTS:

    • Deft Hands on most characters is an item they will have no reason to ever buy, and you can't even buy it on several characters without reloads. It's about time it got removed, and characters that use it just get a flat reload buff to compensate.

    • Iluminate needed to be removed. It is a very problematic item, because it forces invisibility to be an overpowered mechanic by its sheer existence (This item's existence therefore forced Strix's invisibility to be MILES better than it should be, as a particularly egregious example), and forces an item buy on DPS characters who could otherwise buy another item that befits their character choice.

    • Introducing, Buster. Buster is a tool that allows for high DPS characters to consistently go through a tank's health bar with relative ease. This item effectively punishes tanks who lack the positioning skill necessary to play tank properly. It has a 75 cap now because if it didn't, Raum would be pretty much dead, even with the several buffs throughout here that definitely impact him.

    • Introducing, Resolve. Resolve is a sort of counter-action to Buster that allows aggressive tanks to stay in the fight for longer by giving them a sizeable amount of damage reduction that's applied after spending 1 second in combat, that lasts until they go out of combat. This item effectively allows a tank to easier take bursts of damage. This counter-action actually needed to be NERFED a little bit from the original concept I had in mind because of the release Raum, because he could really use this item to seriously high potential.

    • Veteran is a badly designed item, that is pretty much a self-contradiction. Who do you use this on? Flanks? They won't get a lot of healing from it. Tanks? They'd have to spend less time in combat to utilize it, plus Rejuvenate exists. Now here's another problem that I feel needs addressing at the same time. Self-healing in this game, is a total joke with Cauterize. Cauterize pretty much makes it not even worth the effort in most cases to go that route. That's where this rework comes in. It fixes both aforementioned issues, by turning it into, essentially, the self-healing equivalent of Rejuvenate.

    • Kill to Heal may not be as riddled with problems as Veteran, but it's an item more than worth mentioning. The item pretty much is a sustain item built purely with squishy supports or DPS champions in mind, and well, screw tanks right? Who cares about the character who's actually meant specifically to be able to take more damage than the rest of the team? I do. So, here's my ode to fellow tank mains. A Kill to Heal, that also works for tanks. Mind you, it needed a cap because it would be BROKEN on cough cough RAUM and the like. But especially Raum, he'd literally never die with rank 3 of this. And (300/500/700) felt appropriate. Exactly 100 more healing than the current flat amount. This item did get nerfed, actually quite little though, for squishy characters. But that's the price they pay.

    • Introducing, an Invisibility mechanic that promotes awareness! Now enemies that are invisible will show a brief outline of themselves while they're moving. So if you pay close attention you will know EXACTLY where the invisible enemy is! It also benefits snipers (Kinessa particularly) as they can now see this outline at their range, which makes it less aggravating and more "well, it's my fault for acting like a blind idiot" when you die to an invisible enemy flanking you. It also won't feel too bad for the person using it either, because it will actually take skill to use properly. And if they do, they are rewarded by being harder to detect by the other team. Also, you now have to actually kite while you're invisible. Take that, Strix.

    • As for the buffs, I pretty much already went over those. All of the items in the game right now, even with 3.1 PTS Update 4's Cauterize in mind, are still inferior to the aforementioned Caut, and all SUBSTANTIALLY less popular. I think they should all getting buffs, across the board, to compensate for this.


  • PC

    @Dusklicious said in Item Suggestions:

    #anchor(Removals)

    %(#f70a16)[Deft Hands] (Buff Damba, Buck, Pip, and Dredge reload speed by 20% to compensate), %(#0a0ef7)[Illuminate] (Invisibility Rework)

    Removing deft hands isn't necessary IMO, but it's fine.
    I was about to get mad because you suggested to remove illuminate but after I read the rework ☺

    #anchor(Introductions)

    %(#f70a16)[Buster]- Whenever you deal (400/300/200) damage to a target, deal additional damage to the target equal 1% of the target's maximum health in damage, up to a cap of 75 bonus damage. Cost of (300/600/900) credits.
    %(#0a0ef7)[Resolve]- After being in-combat for 1 second, gain (6/12/18)% damage reduction until out of combat. Cost of (300/600/900) Credits.

    I liked buster.
    Resolve Is useless IMO, When someone damages you when you are out of combat you'll return to combat again, I mean It's only damage reduction for the first shot only.

    #anchor(Reworks)

    %(#12cf08)[Veteran]- Increase self-healing received -including through lifesteal- by (6/12/18)%. Costs (150/300/450) credits.
    %(#12cf08)[Kill to Heal]- Heal for (100/250/400) plus 5% of your maximum health after getting an elimination, up to a cap of (300/500/700) total healing. Costs (200/400/600) credits.
    %(#000000)[Invisibility-] Now whenever an invisible unit moves, they show a (somewhat faint) outline of their character model until they stop moving (Can be seen easier up close than farther away)
    #anchor(Buffs)

    The first two is good.
    I am pleased with the invisibility rework

    %(#12cf08)[Rejuvenate] Increased healing from outside sources from (5/10/15)% to (8/16/24)%.
    %(#12cf08)[Life Rip]- Decreased cost from (200/400/600) to (150/300/450).
    %(#c7f209)[Nimble]- Increased movement speed increase from (7/14/21)% to (8/16/24)%.
    %(#c7f209)[Morale Boost]- Decreased cost from (250/500/750) to (200/400/600).
    %(#c7f209)[Chronos]- Cooldown reduction increased from (10/20/30)% to (12/24/36)%.
    %(#c7f209)[Master Riding]- Cost decreased from (200/400/600) to (150/300/450)
    %(#f70a16)[Wrecker] Increased damage increase to shields from (20/40/60)% to (25/50/75)%.
    %(#f70a16)[Bulldozer]- Increased damage increase to deployables from (20/40/60)% to (25/50/75)%.
    %(#0a0ef7)[Resilience]- Increased CC Reduction from (20/40/60)% to (25/50/75)%.
    %(#0a0ef7)[Blast Shields and Haven]- Increased reduction for blast and direct damage respectively from (7/14/21)% to (8/16/24)%.

    All is good, but chronos is fine right now, it doesn't need a buff.

    %(#00f224)[It's a good suggestions overall]


  • PC

    @DambaKing said in Item Suggestions:

    @Dusklicious said in Item Suggestions:

    #anchor(Removals)

    %(#f70a16)[Deft Hands] (Buff Damba, Buck, Pip, and Dredge reload speed by 20% to compensate), %(#0a0ef7)[Illuminate] (Invisibility Rework)

    Removing deft hands isn't necessary IMO, but it's fine.
    I was about to get mad because you suggested to remove illuminate but after I read the rework ☺

    #anchor(Introductions)

    %(#f70a16)[Buster]- Whenever you deal (400/300/200) damage to a target, deal additional damage to the target equal 1% of the target's maximum health in damage, up to a cap of 75 bonus damage. Cost of (300/600/900) credits.
    %(#0a0ef7)[Resolve]- After being in-combat for 1 second, gain (6/12/18)% damage reduction until out of combat. Cost of (300/600/900) Credits.

    I liked buster.
    Resolve Is useless IMO, When someone damages you when you are out of combat you'll return to combat again, I mean It's only damage reduction for the first shot only.

    #anchor(Reworks)

    %(#12cf08)[Veteran]- Increase self-healing received -including through lifesteal- by (6/12/18)%. Costs (150/300/450) credits.
    %(#12cf08)[Kill to Heal]- Heal for (100/250/400) plus 5% of your maximum health after getting an elimination, up to a cap of (300/500/700) total healing. Costs (200/400/600) credits.
    %(#000000)[Invisibility-] Now whenever an invisible unit moves, they show a (somewhat faint) outline of their character model until they stop moving (Can be seen easier up close than farther away)
    #anchor(Buffs)

    The first two is good.
    I am pleased with the invisibility rework

    %(#12cf08)[Rejuvenate] Increased healing from outside sources from (5/10/15)% to (8/16/24)%.
    %(#12cf08)[Life Rip]- Decreased cost from (200/400/600) to (150/300/450).
    %(#c7f209)[Nimble]- Increased movement speed increase from (7/14/21)% to (8/16/24)%.
    %(#c7f209)[Morale Boost]- Decreased cost from (250/500/750) to (200/400/600).
    %(#c7f209)[Chronos]- Cooldown reduction increased from (10/20/30)% to (12/24/36)%.
    %(#c7f209)[Master Riding]- Cost decreased from (200/400/600) to (150/300/450)
    %(#f70a16)[Wrecker] Increased damage increase to shields from (20/40/60)% to (25/50/75)%.
    %(#f70a16)[Bulldozer]- Increased damage increase to deployables from (20/40/60)% to (25/50/75)%.
    %(#0a0ef7)[Resilience]- Increased CC Reduction from (20/40/60)% to (25/50/75)%.
    %(#0a0ef7)[Blast Shields and Haven]- Increased reduction for blast and direct damage respectively from (7/14/21)% to (8/16/24)%.

    All is good, but chronos is fine right now, it doesn't need a buff.

    %(#00f224)[It's a good suggestions overall]

    Removing Deft Hands isn't necessary, but the item doesn't really serve a purpose on anyone but the four characters that would get reload buffs in exchange.

    In the end, the mechanic added to invisibility probably will be a decent nerf to it, especially at higher levels of play.

    I'm not sure if you know how the Out-of-Combat mechanic works. To be considered "Out of Combat" somebody would have to stop taking damage, or using any ability that counts as an in-hand weapon attack for 5 seconds. In other words, the buff would last a whole 5 seconds after you'd stop taking damage in the fight itself, and when you take damage again, it would refresh. Honestly, I'm worried it might actually be overpowered, especially on aggressive tanks like Fernando and Raum.

    The Chronos buff is more to offset the effects that the other buffs may have. Characters based around their in-hand weapons in general would get buffed more than ability characters would with these changes, primarily because of Buster, but also because of the Veteran rework and Life Rip buff.


  • PC

    @Dusklicious said in Item Suggestions:

    I'm not sure if you know how the Out-of-Combat mechanic works. To be considered "Out of Combat" somebody would have to stop taking damage, or using any ability that counts as an in-hand weapon attack for 5 seconds. In other words, the buff would last a whole 5 seconds after you'd stop taking damage in the fight itself, and when you take damage again, it would refresh. Honestly, I'm worried it might actually be overpowered, especially on aggressive tanks like Fernando and Raum.

    I know how it works, I mean when someone shoots while you are out of combat, this effect will be canceled..


  • PC

    @DambaKing said in Item Suggestions:

    @Dusklicious said in Item Suggestions:

    I'm not sure if you know how the Out-of-Combat mechanic works. To be considered "Out of Combat" somebody would have to stop taking damage, or using any ability that counts as an in-hand weapon attack for 5 seconds. In other words, the buff would last a whole 5 seconds after you'd stop taking damage in the fight itself, and when you take damage again, it would refresh. Honestly, I'm worried it might actually be overpowered, especially on aggressive tanks like Fernando and Raum.

    I know how it works, I mean when someone shoots while you are out of combat, this effect will be canceled...

    What? The item specifically says it doesn't work when someone is out of combat... It only works when they've been in it....

    It depends if they hit you again at least 1 second after that. If they do, then the affect will apply at that point. If it didn't have a delay it could pretty much be used on everyone and it would be pretty much just better than Haven and Blast in every possible way.


  • PC

    This post is deleted!


  • @Dusklicious I accidentally pressed downvote, hang on let me fix it XD

    Edit: one thing I dont like... items that affect damage output..



  • With all the DR that exists.
    I would like to see an Armor Piercing item dynamic that uses a debuff to reduce DR for a small time (like caut) in order to reduce a targets standing power from strong DR dynamics.


  • PC

    @Dusklicious

    A few things.

    Deft Hands: Reload speed is a form of DPS control. I prefer forcing them to spend credits to get it over giving it to them for free.

    Buster: Explain this a little more. Is this per hit or 1 second or...

    Resolve: Currenty we have two shields to cover two damage types. This DR covers both damage types? This might make the other shields obsolete. (Yes, I noticed the 1 second)

    Veteran: Say you get 200 heal from a self heal, 18% is only an additional 36. Seems low value to occupy a slot. Maybe higher %s?

    Kill to Heal: Maybe instead of that have it heal as currently but add that it resists caut as the level is increased - Caut reduction would be KTH level-1. Just a thought.

    Invisibility rework: Skye's stealth would be useless. If she moves her position is known and she has no mobility.

    Rejuvenate: With the S3 supports nerf - probably... But it might be early to decide. You played the PTS a lot more than I did.

    Life Rip: Player can get L2 from the start. Is this intended? Not sure I like that idea.

    Nimble: OK

    Morale Boost: OK

    Chronos: Have to think on this one. For example: IO gains no healing benefit from this while all the other supports do. Some champions might need adjustments - Lian for example.

    Master Riding: Same as Life Rip - L2 from the start. Situational to be sure...

    Wrecker: OK.

    Bulldozer: OK.

    Resilience: Absolutely YES.

    Blast Shields & Haven: With Resolve then these might become obsolete. Without Resolve then OK.

    Edit: With all these new lower costs should there be a fifth item slot?


  • PC

    @DaddyOoker said in Item Suggestions:

    @Dusklicious

    A few things.

    Deft Hands: Reload speed is a form of DPS control. I prefer forcing them to spend credits to get it over giving it to them for free.

    Buster: Explain this a little more. Is this per hit or 1 second or...

    Resolve: Currenty we have two shields to cover two damage types. This DR covers both damage types? This might make the other shields obsolete

    Veteran: Say you get 200 heal from a self heal, 18% is only an additional 36. Seems low value to occupy a slot. Maybe higher %s?

    Kill to Heal: Maybe instead of that have it heal as currently but add that it resists caut as the level is increased - Caut reduction would be KTH level-1. Just a thought.

    Invisibility rework: Skye's stealth would be useless. If she moves her position is known and she has no mobility.

    Rejuvenate: With the S3 supports nerf - probably... But it might be early to decide. You played the PTS a lot more than I did.

    Life Rip: Player can get L2 from the start. Is this intended? Not sure I like that idea.

    Nimble: OK

    Morale Boost: OK

    Chronos: Have to think on this one. For example: IO gains no healing benefit from this while all the other supports do. Some champions might need adjustments - Lian for example.

    Master Riding: Same as Life Rip - L2 from the start. Situational to be sure...

    Wrecker: OK.

    Bulldozer: OK.

    Resilience: Absolutely YES.

    Blast Shields & Haven: With Resolve then these might become obsolete. Without Resolve then OK.

    And who uses it remotely effectively? crickets That's what I thought.

    For Buster, I think I might make its effect trigger once per second (after firing). I agree the way I really explained the effect is kind of vague.

    I fail to see how the Invis rework would kill stealth. It would make it not as strong, especially at high level, but it still requires the awareness to see the outline.

    ... Which is why it has a lower percent than Blast or Haven, and I also buffed both of those effects. Only thing is, the effect is pretty much useless on squishies, unlike Blast or Haven, because they'll die before they even get the DR.

    I'm not sure where I stand on this one. Yes, that 36 does seem a bit low, but at the same time, this would apply to Khan's Battle Shout, Seris' Right Click, and even on Fernando's Formidable.

    That totally misses the point of what this version is meant to achieve (a more versatile Green item option), plus that would be a massive buff to squishies that really isn't necessary.

    I mean EM already said they're pretty much doing this (though 7% per rank instead of 8% per rank) and pretty much everyone who's played PTS has been saying it was WAY too weak in the PTS state.

    Well, in PTS you could get Nimble 2 early, Bulldozer 2, Rejuvenate 2 just as early... Plus Life Rip is pretty much a joke of an item outside of niche uses.

    I could see that. But Lian never takes Chronos anyways, and doesn't have a reason to so that's really a bad example. What makes that even worse of an example is just how strong she is on Live and the fact she's even better on PTS.

    I doubt anyone will get MR2 at the start. Plus it would serve as a decent flank buff as they could get MR and Cauterize rank 1 early. It would also make it more accessible to aggressive tanks.

    I'm considering maybe also giving them a cost reduction (to 250 per rank), but I doubt that buffing them more is remotely necessary. Blast and Haven are significantly better on squishy champions that won't get nearly as much benefit from the bonuses from Resolve (although it could be cleverly exploited to make those bonuses occur, it wouldn't be advantageous). Plus, these serve to give you more DR to deal with a specific type of damage.


  • PC

    @Dusklicious

    I've used deft hands on occassion - not first thing though. It can help. Many Dambas max out deft hands ASAP. How will he get the same effect? Snake Pit maxes at 25%.

    Resolve: Thinking of it from an Inara or Raum persepctive. They can easily take the 1 second of damage and then get resistance to both types of damage for half the credits of the other shields.

    Stealth: Maybe I confused outline with a wall hack. Is the outline visible thru walls? If not I suppose it could be OK.

    Veteran: You could cap the heal benefit to account for the high self heals like Khan.

    Chronos: Lian could use Chronos to guarantee a low CD if she misses. It was just an example. There are many champions that would benefit from CD reduction.

    Nimble, Bulldozer, Rejuvenate, Wrecker are all weak on the PTS.

    Life Rip: Will already be better than currently with the Caut Nerf. All forms of self sustain gets a buff.

    MR: As a flanker I would definitely consider MR2 from the start.

    I had added an edit to my post. With the reduced costs and the very real possibility of maxing out all 4 slots (which I did in my first PTS match) what about adding a fifth slot?


  • PC

    @DaddyOoker said in Item Suggestions:

    @Dusklicious

    I've used deft hands on occassion - not first thing though. It can help. Many Dambas max out deft hands ASAP. How will he get the same effect? Snake Pit maxes at 25%.

    Resolve: Thinking of it from an Inara or Raum persepctive. They can easily take the 1 second of damage and then get resistance to both types of damage for half the credits of the other shields.

    Stealth: Maybe I confused outline with a wall hack. Is the outline visible thru walls? If not I suppose it could be OK.

    Veteran: You could cap the heal benefit to account for the high self heals like Khan.

    Chronos: Lian could use Chronos to guarantee a low CD if she misses. It was just an example. There are many champions that would benefit from CD reduction.

    Nimble, Bulldozer, Rejuvenate, Wrecker are all weak on the PTS.

    Life Rip: Will already be better than currently with the Caut Nerf. All forms of self sustain gets a buff.

    MR: As a flanker I would definitely consider MR2 from the start.

    I had added an edit to my post. With the reduced costs and the very real possibility of maxing out all 4 slots (which I did in my first PTS match) what about adding a fifth slot?

    I honestly think they shouldn't have reworked Snake Pit, but at the same time that 20% buff will make it viable to buy other items instead of focusing on Deft.

    Honestly, I actually have nerfed it because of Raum specifically. He could really use this item way better than other characters, considering his soul armor mechanic encourages him to stay in combat.

    No it wouldn't be. It wouldn't be visible through any kind of obstruction like that. An Inara on the same team could theoretically make this mechanic negligible to a minor degree for the Skye/Strix depending on the map.

    Could do that for Veteran. Could cap the addition to something around (100/200/300) bonus on a single application and per second.

    Lian doesn't need Chronos right now. She can literally reset all of her cooldowns after an elimination with the right loadout, which is what makes her so strong to begin with. Her burst has so little downtime. But even then she could THEORETICALLY abuse Chronos to make that burst even more consistent than it is already.

    Well, Life Rip isn't all that strong on PTS either honestly. Though it's less egregious of an example than some. Although it is true that it gets a buff from that change, at the same time, how much are you really going to get off of it in its current state?

    I can see it, but not entirely. It sounds more like it would be a cheese strategy instead of an actually effective one.


  • PC

    @Dusklicious

    Deft: Well yeah, you took the item away. Damba will no longer be able to stun to death. Ha, I forgot about the Snake Pit change - It's even worse than I thought.

    MR: I was in a Bazaar match and the enemy Viktor maxes out MR ASAP.. I'm like where the F did he come from? We barely get out of the gate and he's on us. Trust me, it can be effective.



  • I pretty much liked all of your changes to items except the one you made to invisibility. I liked it at first but now that I think about it Im against it atleast for now. I see alot of problems with the new mechanic like when EM made their last balance changes to stealth, they made it so that hitting shots at them would show dmg numbers while invisible. If they have good awareness they can track you down much easily unless that change to dmg numbers gets reverted. Skye as a flank was meant to counter Kinessa but with this change She will just become one of Skye's possible counters even if the stealth change EM made gets reverted especially with the mobility Kinessa has(and she may see u long range with scope) while Skye doesnt have any of that or enough speed to compensate. It will also make her Preparation talent useless. Maybe make it so that her stealth in smoke bomb cant be seen in any way while moving. Sha lin ultimate is going to be gutted with this change since you have to move frequently to make use of it and dont forget dealing dmg pops numbers on stealthed players. The champs may need a buff on top of all this.
    About stealth in general, people never complained about it really, they mostly complained about illuminate being too strong against it. If the change goes live Skye would need a heavy speed buff in her base kit with stealth. For Sha Lin, a champ I dont play, I would suggest making his stealth during his ultimate specifically completely ignore your changes but make it so that he is revealed when charging his bow instead of while firing if illuminate is removed. The invisibility changes feel like it will bring more harm than good imo but if you can convince me the change to invisibility is good then ill vote for it. The other item changes are pretty good to me.