Seris needs help [S3 Suggestions]



  • Tl;dr reasoning: Seris UP buff pls.
    Longer reasoning at the end.
    In blue text are changes that are in my opinion very important.


    Talents


    Mortal Reach

    Agony


    Base kit


    Restore Soul (RMB)

    Convergence (Ultimate)


    Cards


    Dark Sight

    Ebon Dynamo

    Bane

    Dark Whisper

    Essence Rip

    • OLD: Rend Soul heals you for {8|8}% more.
    • NEW: Gain {6|6}% increased healing while activating Rend Soul.

    Nether Siphon

    • OLD: Heal for {50|50} Health every second while in Shadow Travel.
    • NEW: Activating Shadow Travel heals you for {50|50} Health every second over 4s.

    Wickedness

    • OLD: Reduce the Cooldown of Rend Soul by {0.5|0.5}s.
    • NEW: Each Soul Charge you detonate reduces cooldown of Rend Soul by {0.1|0.1}s.

    Dusk Walker

    • OLD: Reduce the Cooldown of Shadow Travel by {0.6|0.6}s.
    • NEW: Gain {25|25}% increased Jump Height while in Shadow Travel.

    Longer reasoning:

    Never have I ever in 550 h of playing Seris considered her to be underpowered. But this patch, she received changes that harmed her more than helped.

    The Bad:

    • Biggest heal nerf in class (about 30%) which forces everyone to use Mortal Reach. Ying's healing was on the same level as Seris before yet they nerfed it by only 100 every 2.5s. How's that fair?
    • Bane reworked to uselessness
    • Dark Whisper being nerfed for anything above lvl 2. Maxing this card gives old value of 65%, down from 100%, which is kind of a joke
    • Ult stealthnerf: if enemy touches any obstacle during pull, he stops going towards the orb. Good luck pushing someone from highground now.
    • Nimble nerf, her most important item.

    The good

    • Soul Forge is no longer a must pick, but does it matter if your cards were nerfed to values even lower than when you were able to get back in the times when it was a must have anyway?
    • Veil changes were nice at lvls 0,1,2 but nerfs at lvl 4-5.
    • Caut nerfs help Rend Soul slightly, although they don't recompensate for heal nerf at all

    And rest of the changes literally doesn't do anything to her, because they're painfully mediocre.

    I understand that she is a "bridge" healer that is supposed to introduce players to the game, but that doesn't mean she has to be much worse than every other support in the game. This is honestly a new concept of her that I am kind of tired of hearing it already, some time ago she was good meta pick and world didn't collapse.

    Considering that her winrate dropped and her pickrate is now lower, here are my changes to her.

    My idea: to make Agony meta, because it is her hardest talent to use, rewards play making, great mindreading and timing, as well as risks your selfsustain. Buffing it would increase Seris' skill ceilling and pickrate at higher ranks. Lower tiers could still use Mortal Reach to keep Seris the support introducing them to the whole role. We would create another Cherish - Solar Blessing situation, where higher tiers replace higher healing with utility, but also in case of Agony and Mortal Reach - with higher skill ceiling.

    To do that, I:

    • removed bonus 0.5s from MR, instead I buffed single target healing. Mortal Reach still will heal for 2400 per cast as it does now, only burstier, allowing Seris to have more time to shot. It also buffs healing output of SC and, more importantly, Agony
    • made Agony stun happen earlier at cost of its duration so that stuns actually happen at highers tiers without overpowering this talent at low tiers. Good players can benefit from the shorter stun anyway
    • made her ult less countered by resilience to make it more consistent with other utls and help Agony

    My 2nd issue with Seris is that she only has 5-6 good cards (see: my Seris guide)
    Rest feels so unimpactful it doesn't matter which one you pick. There are multiple cards that do the same, yet there's always 1 better than the other. She has:

    • 3x Ammo cards,
    • 2x Shadow Travel CD reduction,
    • 3xMove Speed cards,
    • 3xSelfsustain cards.

    And there's always 1 winner in each of them. Why? Her kit can offer so much card potential, and with few fixes her cards could all be used.
    Reasoning for each card:

    • Dark Sight: Seris doesn't need 3 ammo cards, thus we leave Spirit Leech because it encourages people to heal their allies. Its effect is replaced with something that would synergize with her kit extremely well. I feel like card with its effect is exactly what Seris lacks in her kit and it should exist, even if not as this card.
    • Ebon Dynamo: Orb Speed card is another one that I felt would make Seris actually viable. Both Soul Charge Stack and Orb Speed are the only cards that I think MUST happen in order for Seris to be truly viable
    • Bane: Reworked from great to trash. Just revert it and add a nerf to it to readjust the caut changes.
    • Dusk Walker: This card is bad, because Fade To Black is just 100x better. Just rework it into something different. I suggested jump height to make it very map specific, but can be anything else really.
    • Wickedness: This card is very weak for support Seris. This idea would make Chronos interesting choice for Seris, and open new resets builds.
    • Essence Rip: Wouldn't be trash if it actually countered Cauterize, simple.
    • Nether Siphon: Noobtrap cards that makes people stay in F for too long. Just make its effect last 4s no matter how long you stay in Shadow Travel.
    • Dark Whisper: Nerfed too much. Umbral Gait gives same % but way more often...

    Thoughts?



  • Things I like

    • increased projectile speed, soul charges reduce the cooldown of restore soul, soul charges reduce the cooldown of rend soul, the soul collector affecting the revenant card, and agony only requiring 3 charges.

    Things I don't like/care for

    • the heal duration, agony's stun time reduction, soul charges last longer, jump height increased in shadow travel, and gain increased healing while activating rend soul.

    Seris needs a lot of buffs. People don't want to complicate her kit, so people are having a hard time figuring out how to balance. Her ult detonating in mid-air is stupid because it's another step to have to do. Seris needs added buffs that are easy for newer players to take advantage of, while making her viable in higher tiers of play. For once, she needs cc in her base kit. A 15% slow based on how many charges she detonates. She slow for up to 60% if she rend souls with all charges. She needs to be able to use rend soul while healing. This is what keeps Seris out of higher ranks because she can't heal and attack at the same time. This will allow her to do so. She needs more projectile speed, and I like cards where detonating soul charges reduces cooldowns. This allows her to play into a more hybrid style of play.

    I didn't like all of your suggestions though. Gain more healing while activating rend soul is useless, unless you're in a double support comp. Why would you need jump height in shadow travel as opposed to just a flat cooldown? And I hate the increased duration because Seris can't do anything while she's healing. If she could at least use rend soul while healing, I would be all for it.



  • @HeartQueen said in Seris Suggestions [Season 3]:

    Gain more healing while activating rend soul is useless, unless you're in a double support comp.

    This isn't "get more heals from other players". This is "increased healing" like Koga's Trigger happy, as in, your Rend Soul will heal you for 30% like it does now, but also counters caut by 30% (it doesn't do that right now), while also increasing healing you receive from other support.

    Why would you need jump height in shadow travel as opposed to just a flat cooldown?

    Because Seris already has a card that reduces her F CD: Fade To Black, it does its effect 99999 times better because it procs multiple times and has higher CD reduction. Multiple cards that do the same thing are always problematic, because one will always be better than other, but buffing the weaker to reach similar power will make using both cards absolutely broken.

    Dusk Walker needs a completely new effect, and I thought about giving her card that increases her F duration, but that would make stalling with her absolute nightmare, also would make bad Serises stay too long in Shadow Travel. So I've been thinking about a different effect. I figured Jump height would work well because you would have a situational card that works decently on maps like Serpent Beach, Stone Keep, etc. Seris also misses "fun" cards, and I think being able to create a funny loadout that focuses on you jumping 125% higher, is kind of fun.

    And I hate the increased duration because Seris can't do anything while she's healing. If she could at least use rend soul while healing, I would be all for it.

    And I hated it when I had to switch from picking Soul Collector 99% of the time to picking Mortal Reach 99% because of how low her base healing is right now. This bonus 0.5s duration (that is, by the way, simply moved from Mortal Reach) would help both Agony and Soul Collector be picked more often.

    soul charges last longer,

    Is a card that I always wanted to happen because of how synergestic her kit would be with it. It would also help Agony talent which on its own is just garbage, but giving Seris more time to stack additional charge on enemy would be just godsend for this Talent at higher tiers.

    One thing I agree, that we should not overcomplicate her kit because she is supposed to be newbie friendly (such as the ult detonating in midair). But with that in mind, I have a question: Why is in your view adding slow whose % is based on number of changes added on top of complicated ability whose description takes so much space, is not an "overcomplicating kit"? Even Agony feels simplier to use than this, having constantly look at number of stacks enemy team possesses at all times and then assess the slow value that will give and then readjust your pace according to all those factors feels like it would raise her skillfloor at basekit just way too much.

    Like, isn't it just easier to make Agony actually usable for more clearance in what her abilties are supposed to do?


  • PC

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  • @TTraw That Dusk Walker... FLANK SERIS!

    I like it... XD

    In general, that is really good because it might give Seris a third viable talent, and on top of that, I like the increased projectile speed as well... I like most of em tbh...

    Asian Seris players are nothing but healbots and it bores me because people think Soul Collector is damage Seris. This might change the SEA style a bit.



  • @Demigod Sea style is like we captured the object, me, as solo tank rushed forwald for push them as close to their base as possible for defend our point and mates flamed me (!!!) coz why I'm not sitting on the point. No comment. I don't think it's realy matters what they think about things, I'm sorry 😄
    Especially about Seris. She is almost always used as a healbot even in EU. Ppl think it's her only viable playstyle, but it isn't true on low and mid level of playing Paladins. Anyways Soul Collector can be good for a healer too. And Agony also can be great with team 🙂

    The stack reuirement reducing on Agony could be good for make it better in general. I don't think it needs any stun duration reducing. And the Soul Orb speed buffer card would be great too 👑



  • @KicsitCsicska said in Seris Suggestions [Season 3]:

    Ppl think it's her only viable playstyle,

    It is, all thanks to this patch. I tried using Soul Collector, and while its bonuses are great, her base kit just doesn't heal enough. So I ended up using Mortal Reach unless I got another support backing me up. Which is a shame because last patch I've been using Soul Collector exclusively unless it was Bazaar and Timber Mill due to range, all matches with amazing results. I was ready to readjust my guide saying how SC is the best out of 3, but then season 3 happened.

    I must admit how disappointed I was to see the way they handled support heal nerfs. I expected them to simply remove most healing talents, most of them barely change the way you play those champions anyway, so as to let supports have more freedom of choice, instead they nerfed base kits and made healing talents even more of an requirement lol.


    Also, on topic of Seris, are we not going to talk how she only has like 4 good cards?

    Her only good cards are Umbral Gait, Blood Pact, Spirit Leech and Veil. Rest could be thrown into garbage bin and Seris would perform on the same level as she is now.

    Arguably, Fade To Black is the only card left that affects match in any way. But I just don't need it that much, and the rest of the cards are just fillers that don't matter. I have like 6 different loadouts testing what could be the 5th good card and nothing really clicks....



  • @TTraw said in Seris needs help [S3 Suggestions]:

    Also, on topic of Seris, are we not going to talk how she only has like 4 good cards?

    Her only good cards are Umbral Gait, Blood Pact, Spirit Leech and Veil.

    I absolutly agree with it! I also use mostly these four cards.
    My suggestion is nerf these cards for make her kit more balanced and buff her base kit for balance:

    Blood Pact: {70|70}->{50|50}
    Spirit Leech: {2|2} Ammo for each HALF second -> {3|3} Ammo per activating Restor Soul
    Umbral Gait: {8|8}%->{6|6}%
    Veil: {10|10}%->{8|8}%

    Increase her healing from 1500 to 1600 (edited)
    Increase the damage of Soul Orb: 210->230
    Her heal nerf was harder than any other supporters', and most of the Seris players has ridiculously low total damage. This is why these kind of buffs make sense.

    I also agree with your card changing suggestions about Ebon Dynamo, Essence Rip and Revenant! Seris doesn't need any more base ammo. If you need you can use Dark Site. The speed bonus for Soul Orbs could make her viable on higher elo too. Essence Rip is useless against cauterize what is a permanent tool in the enemies' item kit. Soul Collector Seris doesn't realy feel 50 HP while she already has 2860. Renevant should be as good for SC as with the other talents.
    And agree about Agony should work with 3 charges. Seris often dies before she could hit 4 Soul Orbs.

    Bane makes no sense on high level coz of the speed cap. I suggest to remove it and extend the duration from 3s to 4s.



  • A good Frontline and Damage help. Even a second Support could be good. No buffs required.


  • PC

    @Conrad_Max said in Seris needs help [S3 Suggestions]:

    A good Frontline and Damage help. Even second Support could be good. No buffs required.

    They help every support. That's kind of a moot point. Plus, it's totally ignoring the idea of if the other team has a support that's actually good like a Furia but also has a good FL/Damage.



  • @Conrad_Max yeah, no. As Dusk said, this can apply to every support, except other supports are better.

    Although I must admit, Soul Collector can work pretty decently in a double offsupport comp. But for a character who was designed just to heal a ton, requiring second support to work speaks for itself. She just got overnerfed compared to other support, that's all. By how much?

    Well, Personally, I dropped a whooping 9% winrate this patch on Seris, despite consistently orbitting around 60% since forever. So I think it was quite a nerf. To a character that didn't need one.



  • @TTraw Hey, you could answer to my last comment here xD
    Anyways I don't feel her bad, coz those 4 cards are still OP. I just put 14 point onto them. Here are the results:
    1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg
    I didn't play more as Seris this season.



  • @KicsitCsicska I think the buffs you proposed don't recompensate for all nerfs you give to her best cards. Even wjth those she doesn't perform well. As healer anyway.

    Also she heals for 1000/s , not 1500/s, that would be ridiculous.



  • Increasing Seris main hand orb speed by 40% would be broken as fuck.... She could spam out anyone any where and her orbs go through everything....

    People would be running this card and deft hands 3 and just spraying shit everywhere...



  • @TTraw sorry, I thought to 1600heal / Restore Soul.
    I usggested 7.5% heal buff and 9% dmg buff. I think it could be decent.
    My suggestion is for balance her kit, not for buff her. I think she is on a good spot right now, as my matches show too, but she is forced to use those 4 cards. This is what I suggested to solve 🙂



  • @shadowchess said in Seris needs help [S3 Suggestions]:

    Increasing Seris main hand orb speed by 40% would be broken as fuck.... She could spam out anyone any where and her orbs go through everything....

    People would be running this card and deft hands 3 and just spraying shit everywhere...

    Deft Hands for Seris xDDDD
    She has 14 orbs, just 1s reload time and Spirit Leech lvl2 gives her infinite ammo 😄



  • @shadowchess Would 6/6 feel more reasonable? I think it's hard to decide by %, because Seris orbs are so slow it's difficult to imagine the difference.

    @KicsitCsicska I think she is garbage this patch. Idk how to explain this. It just she heals same as supports with utility but she has none. She is in weird spot right now. As I said, I can't seem to carry anymore, dropping 9% in winrate.


  • PC

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  • @DaddyOoker I just figured you would only max it for DPSeris. I don't think you could go higher than 3lvls when healing. God forbid DPSeris would be viable, right? But maybe 8|8 is too much...



  • I agree with KicsitCsicska, Seris is not good in this patch.... But to be honest she was never really picked at higher level play.... Because of that exact lack of utility...

    She could over perform in lower tier matches where people dont focus fire as a team....
    Her Orbs are slow because they dont stop on hit unless they hit a shield...

    Over all her shooting mechanic is not fun to use....

    They should probably add the stun to her base kit for rend soul...
    Then add a new legendary that does something with Shadow Travel

    Shadowtravel now applies to team mates in a 5 unit radius of Seris
    Shadowtravel places enemies in shadow travel instead of Seris

    I dont really have enough play time to rework her kit...
    But i hope they do something to make her more fun and not just add more healing.


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