Main healers Grohk and Pip could use a hand [Suggestions]



  • @TTraw said in Main healers Grohk and Pip could use a hand [Suggestions]:

    Grohk and Pip are fantastic damage dealers, but when they take the role of a main healer, they struggle a lot

    Disagree.
    As someone who use Grohk as main solo healer I think Totemic ward is one of the best area healing and currently only Luna is a little lower. His anti-CC is a perfect counter for many CC heavy composition (Ash, Torv, Seris, Damba, BK and other).
    The main problem with Grohk is he doesn't go well with flanks (and Drogoz), as many flank mains just dive into the back line and expect Grohk to be able to snipe heal like Damba/Ying. As flanks and Drogoz are the most popular champions to begin with, hence the prejudice. In any case, Grohk synergies well with Frontlines and some damage champions notably Tyra.
    I don't use Spirit domain as I think its less of the other two combined, less damage/sec and no Anti-CC totem

    Mega Potion Pip is an amazing solo healer (look up Jusey1's Pip thread) and a great Pip healer can burst a 1 HP frontline back to full health within seconds.
    The problem is, Pip is high ceiling. Why play a high ceiling character when you just need 1 click to heal for other characters like Seris or Jenos, player with low level Seris/Jenos would be doing more healing than a low level Pip, as it takes tens of hours of practice to nail the sweet aim of across the field healing flask.



  • @Gao-Shun said in Main healers Grohk and Pip could use a hand [Suggestions]:

    Disagree.
    As someone who use Grohk as main solo healer I think Totemic ward is one of the best area healing and currently only Luna is a little lower. His anti-CC is a perfect counter for many CC heavy composition (Ash, Torv, Seris, Damba, BK and other).
    The main problem with Grohk is he doesn't go well with flanks (and Drogoz), as many flank mains just dive into the back line and expect Grohk to be able to snipe heal like Damba/Ying. As flanks and Drogoz are the most popular champions to begin with, hence the prejudice. In any case, Grohk synergies well with Frontlines and some damage champions notably Tyra.
    I don't use Spirit domain as I think its less of the other two combined, less damage/sec and no Anti-CC totem

    I play a decent amount of Totemic Ward lately, and I think it's rather good. It can counter a lot of ults and abilities. As you can read in the thread there's very little buffs to it. I only gave it more health via card as I find it too counterable by AoE champions. And slowing shock pulse, but it was more directed to Spirits Domain.

    You don't use Spirit Domain and you better continue to do so if they don't buff it, it's very bad. It's like Io heal only it gives you combat mode everytime you heal and is more aim dependant. This is "Main healer grohk" I want to buff. Totemward is situational, but fine. But when situations don't align I would prefer to use Spirits Domain as general purpose healer rather than relly on totem whose lifespan is completely dependent on enemy team.

    @Gao-Shun said in Main healers Grohk and Pip could use a hand [Suggestions]:

    Mega Potion Pip is an amazing solo healer (look up Jusey1's Pip thread) and a great Pip healer can burst a 1 HP frontline back to full health within seconds.
    The problem is, Pip is high ceiling. Why play a high ceiling character when you just need 1 click to heal for other characters like Seris or Jenos, player with low level Seris/Jenos would be doing more healing than a low level Pip, as it takes tens of hours of practice to nail the sweet aim of across the field healing flask.

    Mega potion is not an "amazing" solo healer. It's a "I am on par with other healers when my team is stationary and has a lot of tanks" healer. Megapotion pip has too much downtime on his heals and that is a fact. Suggested changes move his healing from 2400 to 2100, but gives him 2 seconds earlier time before he can heal again without reload card. I think this is exactly what he needs, the big burst that Megapotion is known for is still here, but now he can heal his squishies without feeling as guilty.

    I am kind of disappointed that every single game I play with pip and grohk is with them as damage dealers. In fact, I don't remember if I played with healing grohk and pip on my/enemy team since the steelforged update. Except when I am playing them, of course. That should tell something about their power as main supports.

    Wholeheartly disaggree with "high skill ceilling". Mal Damba is played a lot, and is harder than hitting Pip's healing potion, especially since it's rather huge when using his range card maxed. It's not that they are hard, they are weaker than other supports.


  • PC

    Such a good post. Another hard one to see Hi-Rez ignoring.


  • Moderator

    Combat Medic is already being buffed to 750 next patch, so we should see how that plays before suggesting more changes.



  • Seeing How shooting your weapon puts you in combat and not hitting the enemy, i see No way of implementing that mechanic. I agree with the other changes tho, but like @Peinzius Said i would wait with changing combat medic and see How it performs



  • @TTraw said in Main healers Grohk and Pip could use a hand [Suggestions]:

    Wholeheartly disaggree with "high skill ceilling". Mal Damba is played a lot, and is harder than hitting Pip's healing potion, especially since it's rather huge when using his range card maxed. It's not that they are hard, they are weaker than other supports.

    Well, Pip's winrate with Megapotion is higher than Damba's winrate even on 3000+ skill (Grandmaster). So Damba's "skill ceiling" obviously is higher. He is only good at pro play.



  • Probably I'm happy about Ghrok's Shock Pulse slow has been removed. It had low cd and many bonuches even without the talent, so you were be slowed all the time, even behind cover. It was a pain to go against, even more frustrationg than dmg bonus.

    I agree about Mealstorm shouldn't be as better than the other talents as now, but I think it's main problem is the number of bounches. The current talent lower the cd and also add bounch bonus, so you will have 4-5 time more bonuches. It casues that the Shock Pulse cards are only good with Maelstorm and thras with the other talents. So it's just lower the variety of the viable loadouts. So I suggest to remove all of the Shock Pulse frequency buffs on Maelstorm and rather add a dmg bonus to it: e.g. 100. And reduce the base cooldown of Shock Pulse from 6s to 4s. So the Shock Pulse based cards will be better with the other talents too but won't be too good with Maelstorm.

    A cooldown decreasing on Healing Potion would be OP combinated by the basicly good Reload card. Maybe if its bonus would be concern to his selfheal as well (so it would garant 100% heal bonus, not just for the allies) it would be more viable.



  • @TTraw CM is gonna be 750 next patch, the suggestions are nice tho

    pep in the step is like 6%/lvl for 2 seconds now , still needs buff since card dependant champ



  • @Zeebuoy Yeah, this thread was made before they announced the CM buffs. I probably should readjust this thread to fit with upcoming changes.

    I personally still don't think pip CM will be any good as main healer, his issues with off-combat regen still persist, and it still deals self damage....



  • @TTraw true, keep the self knockback tho, not the self dmg


  • PC

    @Zeebuoy said in Main healers Grohk and Pip could use a hand [Suggestions]:

    @TTraw true, keep the self knockback tho, not the self dmg

    Yeah, the self-knockback actually would have its uses without the self-damage. Main thing is that it could be used to dodge stuff.



  • @TTraw said in Main healers Grohk and Pip could use a hand [Suggestions]:

    @Gao-Shun said in Main healers Grohk and Pip could use a hand [Suggestions]:

    Disagree.
    As someone who use Grohk as main solo healer I think Totemic ward is one of the best area healing and currently only Luna is a little lower. His anti-CC is a perfect counter for many CC heavy composition (Ash, Torv, Seris, Damba, BK and other).
    The main problem with Grohk is he doesn't go well with flanks (and Drogoz), as many flank mains just dive into the back line and expect Grohk to be able to snipe heal like Damba/Ying. As flanks and Drogoz are the most popular champions to begin with, hence the prejudice. In any case, Grohk synergies well with Frontlines and some damage champions notably Tyra.
    I don't use Spirit domain as I think its less of the other two combined, less damage/sec and no Anti-CC totem

    I play a decent amount of Totemic Ward lately, and I think it's rather good. It can counter a lot of ults and abilities. As you can read in the thread there's very little buffs to it. I only gave it more health via card as I find it too counterable by AoE champions. And slowing shock pulse, but it was more directed to Spirits Domain.

    You don't use Spirit Domain and you better continue to do so if they don't buff it, it's very bad. It's like Io heal only it gives you combat mode everytime you heal and is more aim dependant. This is "Main healer grohk" I want to buff. Totemward is situational, but fine. But when situations don't align I would prefer to use Spirits Domain as general purpose healer rather than relly on totem whose lifespan is completely dependent on enemy team.

    @Gao-Shun said in Main healers Grohk and Pip could use a hand [Suggestions]:

    Mega Potion Pip is an amazing solo healer (look up Jusey1's Pip thread) and a great Pip healer can burst a 1 HP frontline back to full health within seconds.
    The problem is, Pip is high ceiling. Why play a high ceiling character when you just need 1 click to heal for other characters like Seris or Jenos, player with low level Seris/Jenos would be doing more healing than a low level Pip, as it takes tens of hours of practice to nail the sweet aim of across the field healing flask.

    Mega potion is not an "amazing" solo healer. It's a "I am on par with other healers when my team is stationary and has a lot of tanks" healer. Megapotion pip has too much downtime on his heals and that is a fact. Suggested changes move his healing from 2400 to 2100, but gives him 2 seconds earlier time before he can heal again without reload card. I think this is exactly what he needs, the big burst that Megapotion is known for is still here, but now he can heal his squishies without feeling as guilty.

    I am kind of disappointed that every single game I play with pip and grohk is with them as damage dealers. In fact, I don't remember if I played with healing grohk and pip on my/enemy team since the steelforged update. Except when I am playing them, of course. That should tell something about their power as main supports.

    Wholeheartly disaggree with "high skill ceilling". Mal Damba is played a lot, and is harder than hitting Pip's healing potion, especially since it's rather huge when using his range card maxed. It's not that they are hard, they are weaker than other supports.

    **i'm a healing grohk, i even choose the ability to heal for 900 every game i play, and this idiotic idea of making his primary weapon overheating is stupid, even with cards to buff up his weapon to add ammo and to speed up ammo regeneration i'm tapping the gun to spare ammo, i eventually run out if i'm surrounded and need to use more ammo to heal and attack to stay alive. when it overheats I no longer can heal and protect myself (attack), it overheats so badly i had androxus who uses a pistol reload faster then me, seriously a dps that can headshot me and kill me immediately is reloading faster why?. Whos the genius to cripple the healer this badly? if this was REAL war that would make me a medic and that would be like taking away the medics medical equipment WHILST paladin healers do less dmg then overwatch

    ALSO there's no point even thinking of buffs when you can't even fix him period, i mean there are situations where i'm spamming the totem pole to heal and it won't F-ing come out, sometimes its so glitchy/picky on where it can be put. Seriously?? sometimes i'm like FINE YOU STUPID GAME!! JUST PUT IT ON THE GROUND INFRONT OF ME (flat surface) and it still won't deploy and i die

    **


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