Death & Position - how to achieve better position and improve your game play
Shadowpuppy last edited by Shadowpuppy
Corner peeking is the most basic of survival tips and should be part of every engagement!
Corner Peeking: The act of stepping out from cover, shooting and stepping back before taking damage…
Right Hand Advantage: Your weapon is in your right hand… You do not have to step out as far to fire from a left side peek position as you do from a right-side position…
Peeking is critical for all champs and even more so for Front Lines… The least amount of damage a tank receives allows the healer to heal other team members more often leading to better performance from your damage and flanks. Peeking is an effective way to get out of cauterize and still maintain cauterize on the enemy front line. Nimble makes successful peeking much easier. Nimble is also the direct counter to snipers…
Vision is critical! Players fail to use the best tool they have. Players fail to see easy recognized threats because they are looking at loadouts or not paying attention to critical information that is given freely. There are sight lines on each map that extend deep into enemy territory. Riding paths that allow you to observe those lines will provide a great deal of information on the enemy team’s location and destination. Knowing where the enemy team is located is the start of not being killed by them. This point leads into extrapolation.
Extrapolation is using the above knowledge of what you know to guess what you do not know. If you see 4 people cross a sight line, then you know that there is one person on the team that is alone. If you can see mid and you watched the other 4 crossing into right, you can assume that the loner is left side flank.
The unseen can tell you just as much as the seen. If I observe a known lane and I see no one that tells me that we may have a 5-man flank going on on the other side of the map. Many people make the mistake of thinking I see no one I am going to go run this flank route because it is free. Flanking is only good if you can get it done before you team dies. Running a flank route while your team engages in a V is not a good idea unless you have master riding and can get behind quickly.
I cannot give you every example as this would be 500 pages long of examples but, the point is to actively think about what you do not know during the match. The more and more you guess right, the more impact it will have on making smart decisions during the match
Movement is critical! It both puts you in position to kill as well as positions to stay alive. The faster you can rotate to attack or defend the easier it is to use the above knowledge to take up superior position. I can not state how much nimble and dash distance increase cards can affect the performance of a champion if you understand where and how to achieve a positional advantage.
Dodging is the corner stone of 1v1, and erratic movement is important. It is very hard to practice erratic as practice turns into patterns. I use patterns of movements to create a play list of sorts. These forms are all patterns of movement I practice and then use what ever one comes to mind during a 1v1.
Left Right Left Left Right
Left Left Pause Left
Right Right Left Right Right
Pause is strong in higher ELO play. Low level players will just aim right at you all the time, so pause is going to get you nailed. High level players are used to players trying to dodge everything so pause can add a new element they are not used to.
This can really work well against Snipers and Shalin or other slow firing champs. This idea is powerful in that it takes longer to change direction that it does to move from still. Once again nimble makes this better in every way.
Sound is not hard to master. Listen and understand that your movement gives away just as much as it betrays the enemy’s location. Skills make sounds and Androxus and Evie are prime examples of skills that make everyone look. Do not give away your location by using loud skills in the middle of your flank route.
Stopping to listen can really help you figure out where someone is. If your low health and hiding do not walk or move. You can rotate your view to look around in silence but if your shuffling around your feet people will hear and seek you out.
Misdirection is exactly what it sounds like. It requires that you think about what the enemy is thinking. If you run by a door and you know they saw you, you can extrapolate where they think you are going to pop up. If they guess right, they are going to blast your face off.
Running by a door with the intention of being seen to pause and then enter that door is a good example of misdirection. I wanted them to see me and my hope is that they will move to intercept at a location I have no intention of going to. Misdirection is part of vision. If you are looking down field when passing windows and doors and sight lines you can see people. Those people can see you. Just knowing that much can make the choice of where to pop out easier.
You can use this to waste peoples time. Misdirection can win a match though you will never get praise for it. People will never be able to tell that you where able to pull Tyra off point by misdirection rather than out right engagement.
The more deadly you are the more you can use misdirection to help your team. If you a noob Imani then no one cares where you are going. If your wreking the entire team with Talus then they are hunting you and when they see you, they are diving to kill you in a place you are not even going. This is a good way to get value for your team once you are being hard focused
Position is something you will hear allot about… It is all about position, you where out of position and if you ask people what is a good position is? They give you High Ground or Stay with your team answers with no idea why. Position is complicated to explain but here goes.
Position is not a place on the map!!! There are places that tend to be better aka High Ground or around your team but neither of these out right is a good position. Position is an idea more so than a place. Good and Bad is relative to not only your location but that location as opposed to the enemy location. Since everyone is constantly moving there can never be a static good or bad location on the map.
Keys Elements to good position
• Approach Vectors
It is improbable that you will achieve good position without some knowledge of the location of the enemy team. If you do not know the location of the enemy, then it is likely you are already in a bad position. Vision as described above is critical to position, without it you are just guessing. Vision is key and leads to a basic rule that the more of the map you can see the better the position. Therefore, you hear people call out high ground as a good position. Around your team as well as its more likely that 4 eyes will spot and call out threats before they sneak up on you. Seeing threats and maneuvering to a place of advantage is what position is all about. Speed increases your ability to do this effectively. The faster you ID a threat and start to move to counter it the more successful you will be at countering what the enemy team is trying to accomplish.
Number of approach vectors and cover are the other main element to position. The docks on Fish Market have 1 approach vector great sight lines making it very easy to defend however the cover sucks so while it has aces in the hole on approach vectors and sight it totally blows for position due to its lack of cover. High Ground tends to have limited approach vectors as well as good cover and good site lines and therefore it is called out as good position even if people do not know why.
Knowledge is part of position. Knowing the enemy team’s location is critical in creating a good positional advantage in warfare. The same works in reverse. If the entire enemy team knows your location, then the advantage is diminished as they are going to fight from angles that nullify that advantage. Aka they are going to play in sight lines that Strix cannot see from her location. Just because you have a solid location that meets all the requirements discussed above does not mean you should stay there. Once you have made good use of a position you should be looking to relocate so the enemy team must relearn your new position. Simply put, move around when no one is watching you.
Skills and cool downs change what is good and bad about a location. Using the rules above you can make decisions based on achieving something above. Pushing forward with tank to an exposed area gives you more vision at the cost of increased approach vectors and reduced cover. You are gaining vison at the cost of the other two in order to see and dismount as many people as possible. Your skills can make a bad position a temporarily good position. Having a shield to pop for cover or a movement skill to dash back to cover is your though process about if you should be pushing out in the open for some purpose. Pushing out past cover your movement skill can recover from or that you can effectively retreat from is what is considered over extending.
So, there are defensive positions and offensive positions and those are directly related to everything discussed above. Typically, the more cover equals less vision. Lots of cover is a defensive position lots of vision is offensive. Avenues of approach is defensive but can be offensive if you know what your pushing people into on the exit points of that position.
Last topic is not Shooting. Positional value is based on Vision, Approach Vectors, and Cover. Knowledge of that position also has value. The value is hard to quantify but it does exist. If the enemy team is unaware of your position and its value is high based on the above criteria you should not just start shooting at the first thing you see.
Waiting till you can get maximum value out of your position can turn an entire point fight around. Its hard to not shoot when there is a fight right in front of you and picking the correct time to hold off a little longer can be challenging to learn. Not shooting can cause a team to push into a location that the otherwise would not have pushed into.
I have won allot of matches with patience waiting for the enemy team to over extend or push a little to hard. This is typically a damage or flank that holds off on attacking to give the impression of weakness. This does not work with tanks as they take a long time to get damage out so waiting around in the shadows as a tank is not a good idea.
Tyra however can come in and delete 3 half health people in seconds. This comes with time played and understanding how good the position you have is as in relation to your team and the enemy.
UPDATE 1 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I discussed approach vectors as how they apply to positional advantage however, I did not discuss how champs like Androxus and Evie have unlimited approach vectors to any high ground, therefore the high ground positional advantage is diminished. It can even be a positional disadvantage to stand on high ground with champs that can access it so easily. High ground is great in the reduced approach vectors make it much easier to guess where the threats are coming from but, it also makes it much harder for your team mates to come to your aid.
High ground is a known position of advantage so it also comes with the negative that the other team is going to assume that someone will be taking up position and as we discussed knowledge of a position diminishes the power of that position. Once again everything in position i based on what the two teams are doing.
Example Frog Island, if you are standing behind the wall next to the window, you have ok vision with two approach vectors and excellent cover. This is a good position if no one has pushed either approach vector. Most people know that you can not just allow people to camp up there unchecked or you lose the game so it is likely that you will be defending one of those approach vectors and if you can defend it then you will maintain that position and likely do well on the point fight.
EVIE totally blows up every thing i just said about this position. Defending either of those approach vectors has nothing to do with holding this position. As a mater of fact its not even possible to maintain this position at all with Evie on the board. As soon as she blinks in and shoots once, does not matter if she hits you or not, now that she knows where you are, you have 3 seconds to move or she is going to blink in shoot you soar shoot you again and either kill you or blink away. Trying to stand there will achieve nothing for your point fight as your just going to be looking every where but point. Standing there with Evie on the map is almost worthless.
This is a key thought process of what champions change in a good an bad position. Moving the the main lanes is going to keep Evie from standing in that ideal blink range... So even though its normally not a better position as you will take more fire with less options it is required that you hold a view of that area to prevent Evie from hanging out in her ideal place of backline attack. She is still going to blink on you but that is going to be an area where your team can all see her and focus fire her.
This still follows the same three principals.... You are giving up Cover and Approach Vectors for more vision of a key area a champ requires to perform at a high level. This also highights the inverse of approach vectors.
At the window you have 2 approach vectors and 3 escape vectors. You can rotate left, rotate right, or drop down. This is a good example of a position that has excellent escape. Rotating left or right reduces you down to one escape vector... The key element that i am presenting is that.
Rules on good position can change based on the skills of the champs on the other team
Understanding what all the champions can do is a key element in understanding positional advantage
Willo ult is a good example of turning a good position into a bad one with the click of a button. We all know you need to get in doors. But if your playing around Willo you should be thinking about this when you are setting up your starting position. How much effort and fire am i going to need to get in doors if she ults? Willow used her ult at the end of the round i can take this position that i excellent and not worry about her ult counting my position.
Demigod last edited by
@TangAce I know you're not that active anymore, but please put this onto the guide list.
One hell of a guide! Thanks man!
I guess I should have read and replied to that earlier lmao but I wasn't active at all at that time
overall really good guide
a bit too complicated on some stuff (mostly positioning)
positioning is fairly simple
look for a position that gives you an advantage (highgrounds are important af) while being in range for your team to be able to help if needed, having covers, somewhere you can retreat safely and easily to if needed, be in range and vision of your support or have a nearby place where you can be healed while staying clear of caut
but most important, your position must be suitable to your champion, and to the situation (like a zoning position isn't the same as a point fight position)
other really important thing, is relative position to your team (aka don't put 2 tanks on the point it's useless)
kinda, I think these points sum it up nicely
about sound I don't quite agree, you should be able to always hear what you gotta hear, no matter if you move or whatever, also don't play with music would be a great advice, when you play you gotta be able to know where the enemy is and what they are doing even if you don't see them
it's something that most new players I watch playing are unaware of and it's really easy to tell, and not as easy to master and use as you think imo
also you don't have to always have vision on the enemy, that's very wrong, often you will want to be at a corner waiting to ambush or whatever, or when zoning in some maps you want to be hidden until you can dismount
you could also mention that you can have better vision by emoting
Shadowpuppy last edited by
@TangAce I agree with some of this, though I'm not sure hiding in a corner is much of a position and more of a tactic. You have no vision and if no one comes around that corner you have done nothing for the entire time you are standing there. Now if you know that someone is coming then that could change this thought into a positional advantage, but that requires that knowledge of where the other team is before making that decision. Most of your knowledge of the enemy comes from vision.
Its easy to miss allot of what you see in your battle rhythm, you probably notice things that you do not even think about when fighting. Like a kinessa aiming at some spot and you already know the flank of over there. Thats part of vision that most people do not even think about.
let's say you are zoning in some specific map with mediocre zoning positions, sometimes you wanna be at a corner, dismount then go away, corner doesn't have to be close to the person you are dismounting, but by restricting your own vision you restrict enemy vision as well
most of my knowledge comes from sound actually, or from the strategies enemy team is using
exemple when you are zoning it's super easy to know where the enemy will go
or during the initial fight, by looking at enemy composition you can know which side everyone is going to go and what they will try to do
it's easy to miss things yes, but that's bad awareness, you should be aware of everything at any time, and that comes with playtime
there will still be things you can't know, like enemy cooldowns if you don't see or hear em, or enemy health and stuff, that's the thing your teammates tell you when you play in a team, so vision becomes even less important at this point