The Least Needed for Balanced Enough Items


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    Note that I'm doing the very least that I think it may require to have a relatively balanced item shop.


    NERFS-

    Cauterize- Healing reduction decreased from (25/25)% to (20/20)%. Healing reduction duration decreased from 1.5 seconds to 1 second. (Yeah it needs this, even if healing numbers would have to go down a bit with it).

    Master Riding- Cost increased from (200/200) Credits to (250/250) Credits. (Less access to the MR 🧀)


    MIXED-

    Nimble- Movement speed bonus increased from (7/7)% to (8/8)%. Cost increased from (150/150) to (200/200) Credits. (Nimble's effectiveness in current play is not in the amount of MS it gives you, but in how absurdly cheap it is).


    BUFFS-

    Kill to Heal- Cost decreased from (200/200) Credits to (150/150) Credits. (More accessible is always good, right? Also, Caut nerf is an indirect buff to this)

    Rejuvenate- Healing boost increased from (5/5)% to (8/8)%. Cost increased from (150/150) Credits to (200/200) Credits. (This does come out to a fairly small, but noticeable buff. Overbuffing it could make tanks a bit too strong.)

    Life Rip- Cost decreased from (200/200) Credits to (150/150) Credits. (Same as KtH)

    Veteran- Out of Combat Healing increased from (5/5)% maximum health to (10/10)% maximum health. (It's a big buff to a garbage item? 🤷 Really would want to rework this one, it's horrendously designed.)


    As for Deft Hands, well, can’t really do much that’s minimalistic. The card’s current design can never be balanced... shrugs Also, can’t do what I really want to do with Vet, that would be making it a self-healing equivalent of Rejuvenate, unless we wanted to rework the entire item. And as to why I don't mention Resilience, it’s unlisted because the only way to nerf it effectively is to nerf CC durations. They’re out of control. I mean seriously Vortex Grip makes Khan's grab a 2 second stun on it... That's only one of many examples... BK is the biggest offender on this one because of just how many CC abilities he has (3...) that are all at least a bit too strong, but there's a few other champions (that are for the most part not supports, Seris ult actually has the opposite problem as it's the only CC ult that doesn't cap at 50% reduction, instead capping at Resilience's cap of 60%) that have this issue.

    This is in the wrong subforum by the way


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    @Dusklicious You want to buff healing with these changes right? I think Cauterize is ok with it’s state RN, it needs no nerf



  • @Dusklicious Caut nerf would break the entire game. Caut 3 60% minus rejuve 15% so 45% caut that can fall off so quickly that slow fireing champs have to be 100% accuracy on there shots. Miss one shot and a huge window to heal...


  • PC

    @Shadowpuppy said in The Least Needed for Balanced Enough Items:

    @Dusklicious Caut nerf would break the entire game. Caut 3 60% minus rejuve 15% so 45% caut that can fall off so quickly that slow fireing champs have to be 100% accuracy on there shots. Miss one shot and a huge window to heal...

    I really don't see the need for constant uptime on Cauterize. Cauterize in and of itself is a very strong item when it can be constantly applied nonstop with no window for any healing to come through. That isn't to mention that you're looking at it as if only one person is applying the caut, when normally 3 or 4 in any given team have it. The uptime is part of why it's such a problem at the moment. Sure it's one of the few healing reduction mechanics in the game, but I really don't think it's healthy to leave the item the must pick it has been.

    The 45% would actually be 36% with full Rejuv. But right now really only tanks buy Rejuvenate and even they don't always go for it over other options because of how weak it is right now. If we want to go by your math here, the old Caut could be left at 60% after full old Rejuv as well, so in that case it literally made no difference between the current and new items with full Rejuv. The healing is identical for max Caut applied to a target with max Rejuv, but it ends up being LESS after the healing value nerfs. That's why healers aren't in a good state right now, because they're healing tanks for much less than they used to.

    @DambaKing Yes, because all of them are in a weak state right now. Rejuv isn't bad necessarily but the rest of them really aren't that great.



  • @Dusklicious It pretty frequent that i see over 100k healing in matches with 4 people running caut 3 so i dont really see the issue with caut in its current state.



  • I dont get the caut changes, its supposed to lower the time to kill of champs, not to counter healers.

    The only rework needed for an item would be veteran for me, I have some ideas in mind, like:

    • respawn 10-30% faster
    • gain 1,5-4,5% of your maximum health per second (passive)
    • reduce the time to go out of combat by 0,5-1,5s


  • @Carlolrac555 I would like Veteran reworked to 500 1000 1500 health to dismount a horse.


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    @Shadowpuppy Yes it’s good for flankers and tanks


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    @Carlolrac555 said in The Least Needed for Balanced Enough Items:

    I dont get the caut changes, its supposed to lower the time to kill of champs, not to counter healers.

    The only rework needed for an item would be veteran for me, I have some ideas in mind, like:

    • respawn 10-30% faster
    • gain 1,5-4,5% of your maximum health per second (passive)
    • reduce the time to go out of combat by 0,5-1,5s

    A lot of those sound like... really bad ideas.

    My idea for what it should do is something like increasing self-healing received by (12/12)%.

    @Shadowpuppy said in The Least Needed for Balanced Enough Items:

    @Dusklicious It pretty frequent that i see over 100k healing in matches with 4 people running caut 3 so i dont really see the issue with caut in its current state.

    The fact that 4 people are running caut 3 in the first place is an issue. Nevertheless, a good supp will get that much healing regardless in a decent length match. 100k really isn't all that high as far as healing is concerned in a normal length Siege match.



  • @Dusklicious Ngl, Im really happy with the current state of balance and items, except for veteran, u said that my ideas were terrible, well then explain why they would


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    @Carlolrac555 said in The Least Needed for Balanced Enough Items:

    @Dusklicious Ngl, Im really happy with the current state of balance and items, except for veteran, u said that my ideas were terrible, well then explain why they would

    Aight.

    • Respawn timer decreases would more than likely be either useless or broken, depending on the meta.

    • Second idea straight up breaks tanks, especially Raum. You realize how much healing, how consistently that would be on tanks?

    • That sounds like it won't really do much for anyone except maybe flanks. Reducing the timer for OoC is really only going to put it in the Caut window when you get up to rank 2-3.



  • @Dusklicious said in The Least Needed for Balanced Enough Items:

    t window when

    The numbers arent exactly on point, this is just a quick value I gave them,
    respawning faster can mean a lot since there would be more chance to contest, a team being staggered would be less of a problem and it could turn a 4v5 back faster into a 5v5, making more fights to both teams, this is however potentially broken, but with the right numbers it could make great sense rather than getting more healing OoC

    Again, the passive healing is just a number and would help out every kind of champion, but the healing isnt enough to heal someone up in 5s, rather just make them 'revive' quicker to get OoC (less healing needed from OoC).

    It's probably indeed an item best suitable for flankers, but this could help out healers and long range damagers as well. Not every item is suitable for every class as well, like rejuvenate for healers, bulldozer being only viable against some champions etc.

    These might not be the best ideas for everyone, but I feel like EM needs to be more creative with their reworks as they might turn out to be really helpful and fun.



  • @Carlolrac555 Messing with respawn timers should not happen. I personally dont want to see Androxus with master riding and lower respawn timers diving my healer over and over using the item shop to negate all the negatives of being killed from playing stupid.

    Out of combat healing is already a really strong mechanic, we do not need to make it OP....

    They should just change it to something entirely different. I still like the horse health idea so players can make it to point for touch easier.

    I think they should make it base that players cannot be dismounted 3 seconds from leaving spawn. I am all for zoning but its pretty crappy when a team is camping your spawn door and you cant even get out of it without taking 75% of your health.



  • I'm not sure if I misunderstood something or you want to reduce Cauterize to 60% at max and increase Rejuvenate to 24% at max, so people would heal by 64% of the base healing when both items are at level 3 (100-60=40; 40+24=64).
    If that's correct, I say "Nope".


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