Dusklicious' Tier List


  • PC

    I know I already post these on Guru, but since Guru may shut down at some point in the relatively near future, I feel like I could post it here instead and apply relevant updates. I will do it in the top/high/upmid/lowmid/low/bottom tier format, not unlike most tier lists made by high levels players for Smash Ultimate. There are a few changes to the list from the Guru version (that I will not update). Note that this list is based purely on personal opinion and my own experiences. Will go by role, but I'll put the full list at the end.

    (Version 3.1)

    Tanks:
    Top Tier: Torvald, Barik
    High Tier: Terminus, Raum
    Upper Mid: Fernando, Khan
    Lower Mid: Ruckus, Ash
    Low Tier: Makoa
    Bottom: Atlas

    NOTE: Tiering assumes Khan is using Vortex Grip.


    Damage:
    Top Tier: Bomb King
    High Tier: Drogoz, Vivian
    Upper Mid: Lian, Strix, Cassie, Viktor
    Lower Mid: Tyra, Imani, Kinessa
    Low Tier: Willo, Sha'Lin, Dredge
    Bottom: N/A

    NOTE: Tiberius would likely be High Tier, below Vivian with his current performance on live. PTS is probably close to top tier (PTS changes for Tiberius are actually a slight buff).


    Supports:
    Top Tier: N/A
    High Tier: Furia, Skye, Jenos
    Upper Mid: Mal'Damba, Ying
    Lower Mid: Grover, Io, Grohk
    Low Tier: Pip, Seris
    Bottom: N/A

    NOTE: Counting Skye as a support on this list, because she's primarily played that way, and also plays that way to most effect.


    Flanks:
    Top Tier: Zhin
    High Tier: Koga, Maeve
    Upper Mid: Androxus, Evie, Buck
    Lower Mid: Talus
    Low Tier: Moji
    Bottom: Lex

    NOTE: Lex is so bad he should be in a tier of his own. Q is useless, RMB is a noob bait ability at BEST, and extra credits are not useful right now with the increased access to items and the amount of 🧀 in the meta.


    WHOLE LIST:

    Top Tier: Zhin, Bomb King, Torvald, Barik
    High Tier: Koga, Furia, Terminus, Drogoz, Skye, Raum, Maeve, Vivian, Jenos
    Upper Mid: Androxus, Lian, Mal'Damba, Strix, Evie, Ying, Fernando, Khan, Cassie, Viktor, Buck
    Lower Mid: Tyra, Grover, Imani, Io, Inara, Grohk, Kinessa, Ruckus, Talus, Ash
    Low Tier: Willo, Pip, Makoa, Sha'Lin, Moji, Dredge, Seris
    Bottom: Atlas, Lex

    EDIT: Just realized I forgot to tier Damba. Note on him: his winrates are VERY deceptive. Problem is people either don't know how to Damba or just throw with him instead of playing him properly. Also forgot Inara...? What? ANyways, she's probably Lower Mid, above Grohk.



  • You're ranking Ying BELOW that shark bait Skye??

    Boy you better start making some adjustments before I merge this mirror with the face of that walking beard you like to main! 😤


  • PC

    @OriginalEquinox said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    You're ranking Ying BELOW that shark bait Skye??

    Boy you better start making some adjustments before I merge this mirror with the face of that walking beard you like to main! 😤

    Skye isn't shark bait, she's one of the best supports in the game... And she isn't even supposed to be able to do that! She consistently does high damage and high healing at the same time... Smoke and Dagger's effect combined with Healing Vapors 625/s healing is just busted.

    Also, I think Ying is a bit overrated by high levels, at least by Vex. Her main issue is that she has no CC, and is the only support in the game not to have at least a little of it. I will say they'd be in the same tier if Ying had CC, but she doesn't, and that is pretty crucial in a patch where CC abilities in general are really strong (because for some reason they decided to nerf Resilience, but not CC). It is true that most of the higher CC supports are lower down, but all of the high tier supports, except Skye (she's a support now, yep), have some form of CC. She is still a solid character (not looking that way next patch, though because they're nerfing her for no reason), but not really a high tier character.



  • @Dusklicious speaking of cc, would be neat if her illusions had a mini slow aura to them like Rukus and his emitter did back then


  • PC

    @OriginalEquinox said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    @Dusklicious speaking of cc, would be neat if her illusions had a mini slow aura to them like Rukus and his emitter did back then

    Ruckus needs that back too! He has no CC in his kit so he can't quite perform his own hit and run role like he needs to, so he can be viable instead of... usable, but not really viable.



  • @Dusklicious said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    Skye isn't shark bait, she's one of the best supports in the game... And she isn't even supposed to be able to do that! She consistently does high damage and high healing at the same time... Smoke and Dagger's effect combined with Healing Vapors 625/s healing is just busted.

    Skye has no direct heal which all other support have (and need to be viable). So if Tyra throws a firebomb where the smoke is Skye has no heal anymore. She is like Grohk with Totemic Ward just without the CC immunity.


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    @Dusklicious said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    Skye isn't shark bait, she's one of the best supports in the game... And she isn't even supposed to be able to do that! She consistently does high damage and high healing at the same time... Smoke and Dagger's effect combined with Healing Vapors 625/s healing is just busted.

    Skye has no direct heal which all other support have (and need to be viable). So if Tyra throws a firebomb where the smoke is Skye has no heal anymore. She is like Grohk with Totemic Ward just without the CC immunity.

    That is true, but there's a few differences between the two. First thing is that her smoke bomb has more utility than Grohk's totem does. It grants movement speed, and also invisibility while they're in it. Not to mention, there are 2 CDR cards for it, so after Tyra throws the fire bomb, Skye can have it back up again outside of the AoE in very little time at all (If the Tyra bombs the smoke right after Skye throws it and she has Quick Smoker III and Confound IV, she'd have an 8 second cooldown on it at that point assuming Bolts only hit one enemy). Grohk has no way of doing that.

    Not to mention that even with a heal build she still can deal a lot of damage (while Grohk can do decent damage with a heal build, it has nothing on what a heal Skye can do), and she can also flank the Tyra and pressure her if the tanks/DPS don't need healing right that moment, which Grohk can't do at all without ult, and still likely won't pull off with it after the enemy gets Caut 3, and it may be trouble outside of 1v1 after Caut 2.

    That isn't to mention that with the base healing plus Healing Vapors 5 (standard on every Heal Skye), the total comes out to a whopping 503/s healing in Smoke (not broken like 819 would be, but it's still quite a bit considering). Grohk can't do that much healing consistently, which compounds the fact his is on a longer cooldown.



  • @Dusklicious No skye doesnt heal 815/s, thats not true at all. She heals 625 HP over 2s which is a heal of 312.5/s then the extra 190/s is added up to 502.5 healing per second.


  • PC

    @SNIper-poTAto said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    @Dusklicious No skye doesnt heal 815/s, thats not true at all. She heals 625 HP over 2s which is a heal of 312.5/s then the extra 190/s is added up to 502.5 healing per second.

    Good point, but my point still stands that she still heals for a LOT for doing as much damage as she does at the same time (good heal per second, plus what is essentially only an 8 second cooldown on it, without accounting for Chronos, while it still heals for 6 whole seconds, which means only 2 seconds without any healing), and for having so much utility attached to that healing. It's not just the value of the heal that makes it strong in this case, it's the invisibility and the extra movement speed from Dissipate also. Both offer more utility than most any other support can on their heal.



  • I give @SNIper-poTAto and @Dusklicious upvotes for debating with facts and numbers.



  • @Dusklicious Smoke and dagger doesnt grant invisibility either, to allies but only to skye herself, allies only get loadout card benefits along with the 190/s heal atleast thats how it was when i played against a skye with this talent. But yea i agree her healing is a bit much considering she can flank/damage and heal at the same time if u can play her well.
    Anyways whats your reasoning for placing dredge in the low tier category? I personally think hes lower mid at best cuz all the people i know who actually play him do insanely well in high ranks.


  • PC

    @SNIper-poTAto Still though, there's plenty of utility in the ability itself, and a lot of damage/healing for one champion. Does the damage of a DPS and the healing of a Support.

    Dredge? He's flank bait. There's little for a Dredge to do against most flanks if the person playing them is competent. Evie is a potential exception, yes, but probably the only one. Plus almost any character can do well in Ranked. I've even seen Seris and Moji do well in a few games.



  • @Dusklicious
    Grohk has 5 second CD reduce for his totem on ghost walk. With Chronos II he has an 8 seconds CD on his totem. Totemic ward has 30% heal boost so it's 546 per second (without healing rain). I never see Skye as main healer so it's hard to judge, but the concept is not convincing. It may work in some matches (like trotem Grohk) but it's not reliable.


  • PC

    By the way, here's my list visualized (this list also has Tiberius in it):

    3.1 Tier List.png



  • @Dusklicious said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    By the way, here's my list visualized (this list also has Tiberius in it):

    It unfortunately is already outdated. Torvald is probably dead now. Barik's self-heal also.


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    @Dusklicious said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    By the way, here's my list visualized (this list also has Tiberius in it):

    It unfortunately is already outdated. Torvald is probably dead now. Barik's self-heal also.

    And unfortunately I can't play so I can make a new one, because the game is pretty much unplayable...

    Have a PTS tier list here though.



  • @Dusklicious Koga still high tier? Thought he dropped to Upper Mid.


  • PC

    @Demigod said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    @Dusklicious Koga still high tier? Thought he dropped to Upper Mid.

    On my PTS list, he's actually lower mid. The list where he's high is for 3.1.

    Hopefully here in a few days I can get my 3.2 list up.


  • PC

    Here is my current WIP tier list for 3.2 after playing for only about a couple of days:

    Screenshot_2020-03-07 Paladins (All 44 champions) Tier List Maker - TierLists com.png

    NOTE: A few lower placements have shifted up as a result of adding a median mid tier.



  • @Dusklicious Pip bad (funny since he used to be median mid before the catalyst nerfs)

    Koga better than Zhin? Hmm.

    Fact that BK and Maeve are top tier signifies the fact Furia is the best support right now (BK and Maeve LOVEEEEEEESSSS Inflame)

    I honestly thought Barik was OP purely cuz of Double Time, but I trust your judgement for the dwarf... so.... Kay.


  • PC

    @Demigod said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    @Dusklicious Pip bad (funny since he used to be median mid before the catalyst nerfs)

    Koga better than Zhin? Hmm.

    Fact that BK and Maeve are top tier signifies the fact Furia is the best support right now (BK and Maeve LOVEEEEEEESSSS Inflame)

    I honestly thought Barik was OP purely cuz of Double Time, but I trust your judgement for the dwarf... so.... Kay.

    Pip is pretty bad. I would say that Pip's been bad for a pretty long while, at least as a support. The new Acrobat's Trick only helped a little, and not nearly enough to make him viable, at least as a healer. As a blaster, he's just outclassed by BK, Drogoz, and even Evie.

    Koga is still pretty f***ing strong actually. I've played with a few and they've been doing pretty solidly. Zhin on the other hand is looking just OK IMHO. But only time will tell on that one.

    Not necessarily. Furia's Cherish nerf is starting to make Blessing as good if not better of an option than Cherish is, which neither of them will get good healing off of the beams. Damba's buff is honestly making him the best support atm at least I think.

    No, there's more to it than that. Double Time was a bit of a crutch, that allowed him to be more of a top tier. Now, although a decent ways worse, he's still a very strong champion with very solid sustain, a bit too good of uptime on turrets, and the best tank honestly. Just no crutch in the form of Double Time anymore.


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