Dusklicious' Tier List


  • PC

    @Demigod said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    @Dusklicious Koga still high tier? Thought he dropped to Upper Mid.

    On my PTS list, he's actually lower mid. The list where he's high is for 3.1.

    Hopefully here in a few days I can get my 3.2 list up.


  • PC

    Here is my current WIP tier list for 3.2 after playing for only about a couple of days:

    Screenshot_2020-03-07 Paladins (All 44 champions) Tier List Maker - TierLists com.png

    NOTE: A few lower placements have shifted up as a result of adding a median mid tier.



  • @Dusklicious Pip bad (funny since he used to be median mid before the catalyst nerfs)

    Koga better than Zhin? Hmm.

    Fact that BK and Maeve are top tier signifies the fact Furia is the best support right now (BK and Maeve LOVEEEEEEESSSS Inflame)

    I honestly thought Barik was OP purely cuz of Double Time, but I trust your judgement for the dwarf... so.... Kay.


  • PC

    @Demigod said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    @Dusklicious Pip bad (funny since he used to be median mid before the catalyst nerfs)

    Koga better than Zhin? Hmm.

    Fact that BK and Maeve are top tier signifies the fact Furia is the best support right now (BK and Maeve LOVEEEEEEESSSS Inflame)

    I honestly thought Barik was OP purely cuz of Double Time, but I trust your judgement for the dwarf... so.... Kay.

    Pip is pretty bad. I would say that Pip's been bad for a pretty long while, at least as a support. The new Acrobat's Trick only helped a little, and not nearly enough to make him viable, at least as a healer. As a blaster, he's just outclassed by BK, Drogoz, and even Evie.

    Koga is still pretty f***ing strong actually. I've played with a few and they've been doing pretty solidly. Zhin on the other hand is looking just OK IMHO. But only time will tell on that one.

    Not necessarily. Furia's Cherish nerf is starting to make Blessing as good if not better of an option than Cherish is, which neither of them will get good healing off of the beams. Damba's buff is honestly making him the best support atm at least I think.

    No, there's more to it than that. Double Time was a bit of a crutch, that allowed him to be more of a top tier. Now, although a decent ways worse, he's still a very strong champion with very solid sustain, a bit too good of uptime on turrets, and the best tank honestly. Just no crutch in the form of Double Time anymore.



  • @Dusklicious Does your tier list reflect on other peoples opinion too? becuz I personally think Kinessa should swap places with Tyra. I feel like Tyra is not much helpful to flanks and only works really well with double damage comps since burn monster is being considered her best talent and that makes her more of a tank killer and point zoner. And for Kinessa, I think she can work with most comps. Shes a good counter for most tanks becuz of their big head hitbox and her burst can force backlines to use movement abilities/make them low enough for flanks to finish off quickly. Kinessa can carry if she just has a little protection against her counters while Tyra needs her team to work together to get full value of her kit and also careful drafting in ranked so that she doesnt get countered too hard due to lack of mobility.


  • PC

    @SNIper-poTAto said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    @Dusklicious Does your tier list reflect on other peoples opinion too? becuz I personally think Kinessa should swap places with Tyra. I feel like Tyra is not much helpful to flanks and only works really well with double damage comps since burn monster is being considered her best talent and that makes her more of a tank killer and point zoner. And for Kinessa, I think she can work with most comps. Shes a good counter for most tanks becuz of their big head hitbox and her burst can force backlines to use movement abilities/make them low enough for flanks to finish off quickly. Kinessa can carry if she just has a little protection against her counters while Tyra needs her team to work together to get full value of her kit and also careful drafting in ranked so that she doesnt get countered too hard due to lack of mobility.

    This is more of a personal tier list not really taking into account other peoples' opinions or experiences, but if my mind can be changed so can the list, but anyways...

    I honestly think that although Tyra can be flank bait (Kinessa can be as well, though to a lesser degree) and has a degree of team dependence, Kinessa can be very map dependent (as in she doesn't work on certain maps pretty much at all). Tyra also has better damage output, CC, and much better sustain (one of Kinessa's biggest problem areas). Tyra's tank shred is also quite useful in a meta where everyone seems to be so accustomed to double tank. Not to say Kinessa is bad by any means, but Tyra simply does more right now than Kinessa does in most situations in the hands of most players.

    Though you do make some good points, I'm not quite inclined to agree with your assessment of either Tyra or Kinessa.



  • @SNIper-poTAto Tyra is really stong, Playing burnmonster is what makes her flank bait... If you use triple nade she can destroy flanks and her normal burn monster still fucks up tanks..

    Burn monster is good but triple nade is just so much more versital.


  • PC

    @Shadowpuppy said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    @SNIper-poTAto Tyra is really stong, Playing burnmonster is what makes her flank bait... If you use triple nade she can destroy flanks and her normal burn monster still fucks up tanks..

    Burn monster is good but triple nade is just so much more versital.

    Problem with triple nade ends up being that you end up with a lot less pressure on the tanks, but this is pretty much the case. Tyra is potentially a powerhouse, but there's still a few things holding her back, and making her more mid-tier than anything when it comes to placement. She lacks bursts of mobility, her ult is pretty meh, and she's the DPS most affected by Cauterize. She's also outclassed in most scenarios by Vivian. Nonetheless, the fact she can still do good despite these flaws makes her a decent character worth using, even over Vivian in certain matchups (Raum, for example).

    Though there are a few placements I am considering changing at this point (chief among them are Moji and Willo), Tyra's is not one of them, @SNIper-poTAto.



  • @Dusklicious Explain me with your bigbrain why is nando so high (mid is high, ok?)? I find him weak garbage doesn't matter it's me playing or when he is on enemy team.

    Like, the buffs made him more fun and all, but viable? nah. What's your build?


  • PC

    @TTraw said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    @Dusklicious Explain me with your bigbrain why is nando so high (mid is high, ok?)? I find him weak garbage doesn't matter it's me playing or when he is on enemy team.

    Like, the buffs made him more fun and all, but viable? nah. What's your build?

    Nando applies caut really, REALLY well (within his range at least), he has plenty of mobility, and a pretty f***ing good ult as long as you know how to use it and your teammates have a good few functioning brain cells. Also with a good Scorch build he does quite a bit of damage.

    The buffs definitely made him viable, and honestly good in the right hands. Not going to say he's really anything above mid-tier, because he's really not, but viable? Honestly, yeah. Here are a couple of solid results I've personally gotten with him this patch alone:

    NaNdO iS bAd.jpg
    NaNdO iS bAaD.jpg

    NaNdO iS bAaAd.jpg
    NaNdO iS bAaAaD.jpg

    My build (for Scorch, Nando is a ways better off than point) is: Launch I, Hot Pursuit II, Looks that Kill III, Fearless Leader IV, Incinerate V. Item-wise, best start on items is probably Caut/Nimble due to the weakness of Rejuvenate.



  • Io is too low on your list, she is at least mid-tier. It's very easy to keep the team alive with her cause to her massive heal output. Yes she tends towards heal-bot a bit. But she has utility, Luna stun, Luna on point or pushing cart.

    Same goes for Moji. I have seen whole teams wiped out by Moji. Is Tiberious really that strong? I have played vs many but wasn't that impressed by his performance till now. Drogoz also seems a bit high since he is situational, map and opponent depending.

    Oh, and I have to try out Damba, if many gourds is really that strong now. 🙂

    About Nando. I think you need speed, either Hot Pursuit or Running start at V.

    @Demigod I tried Pip back and forth with combat medic and mega pot, it simply doesn't work. I have to work so hard to keep my team alive while with Io I only have to hold the right mouse-button from safe distance and still get more healing. The acrobat's trick doesn't work since Pip has not enough spare points. Something should be moved to the base kit, "cd reload" or "heal radius" or self-heal. All 3 are mandatory.


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    Io is too low on your list, she is at least mid-tier. It's very easy to keep the team alive with her cause to her massive heal output. Yes she tends towards heal-bot a bit. But she has utility, Luna stun, Luna on point or pushing cart.

    Same goes for Moji. I have seen whole teams wiped out by Moji. Is Tiberious really that strong? I have played vs many but wasn't that impressed by his performance till now. Drogoz also seems a bit high since he is situational, map and opponent depending.

    Oh, and I have to try out Damba, if many gourds is really that strong now. 🙂

    About Nando. I think you need speed, either Hot Pursuit or Running start at V.

    I'm kind of back and forth on Io at the moment. On one hand, Luna is broken and on the other her healing is pretty meager compared to other supports (it's surely not massive as you say it is, it's on the low side at least from my experience). Still beats a Grohk in any respect, but not sure if she quite belongs in the same tier as Grover.

    Moji is one I'm not sure whether she's bad and simply people are allowing her to get fed or it's that her burst is so good on its own to make her a mid tier at least. She's one I've been back and forth on quite a bit.

    As for Tiberius, Yes he is. Massive damage output, probably the fastest charging ult in the game sans Morale Boosts/Ult Talents, and he's generally a character capable of easily carrying.

    On the note of Drogoz, he can be a bit map dependent for a high tier, but even then it's not a big deal when he can hover miles above even where your hitscans will likely see him. Heck, I'm not bad at Nessa, and Drogoz is actually a problem for me sometimes if they're running a good WYRM loadout and know what they're doing. That's a character that's supposed to be one of his strongest counters mind you.

    Damba in the hands of the right player should be really, really strong right now. But his stats are still going to be bad because nobody has any idea what they're doing playing him. Swear I can play him better than most Dambas I find in MM and my Damba's really bad.

    You really don't need that much speed on him. You'd be surprised how much speed Nimble plus having Launch/Hot Pursuit as fillers make Nando have a surprisingly high amount of mobility on their own. Add Fearless Leader III+ into the mix and you have dashes up quite often when you're getting elims.



  • @Dusklicious said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    My build (for Scorch, Nando is a ways better off than point) is: Launch I, Hot Pursuit II, Looks that Kill III, Fearless Leader IV, Incinerate V. Item-wise, best start on items is probably Caut/Nimble due to the weakness of Rejuvenate.

    Ehh, I still think he needs to be buffed.

    Either 1s off his Fireball to make it align with Hot Pursuit, or complete removal of Hot Pursui internal card if they want Fireball to work on 5s CD.

    Unfortunately, all he will get is increase in charge damage. Can't wait to burst people with knockbacked Charge + Looks That Kill Fireball + Charge for like 1400 burst, yep, that will be balanced.


  • PC

    First Edit to 3.2's List. Putting it down here for the sake of keeping the context of a few other comments, some suggestions which I have been able to find a basis for rationally. Io and Moji's new placements namely. I also have been seeing reason to put Drogoz lower, though I'm still in between calling him high tier and upper mid at this point.

    Screenshot_1.jpg

    By the way, yes, every character in every tier is sort of ordered meaning that (example) Barik is the best of the high tiers and Atlas is the worst of the low tiers. Though most characters within tiers aren't too far apart from each other in my view.

    EDIT: mistyped comment on Drogoz tiering.



  • @Dusklicious said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    her healing is pretty meager compared to other supports (it's surely not massive as you say it is, it's on the low side at least from my experience).

    Moonlight heals for 120 every 0.15s while channeling. What is 800/sec. If you add 15% for the damage reduction she heals for 920/sec what is very good. I played a bit at the shooting range and on longer duration her heal output is similar to Seris. Funny thing is, that Pip seems to have the highest healing of all supports. 🙂



  • RIP Lex.

    Btw, they called him "Bridge" flank in Jay's video justifying his balance.

    Oh noes the Seris disease is striking again.


  • PC

    @TTraw said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    RIP Lex.

    Btw, they called him "Bridge" flank in Jay's video justifying his balance.

    Oh noes the Seris disease is striking again.

    What's next? They're going to say Atlas is somehow a "bridge" tank when he's one of the hardest tanks if not the hardest tank in the game to play properly?

    Sounds like they're just being too lazy to fix some blatant balancing issues.

    @M3RC3N4RI0 That would be the case if the theoretical amount of output correlated with the actual amount of healing that gets output, which simply isn't the case. Not to mention, Chronos does nothing for Io so she can't scale the availability of her meter into late game like most supports can with their heals (Seris can't really do this either). I've never seen a non-Pip main outheal the other support with Pip since season 3. Not once. Also, I'll note if what you are suggesting is the case, why is Seris considered one of the worst supports in the game? She has a 1000/s heal on almost no cooldown at all, but yet she does not perform at all right now.



  • @Dusklicious said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    why is Seris considered one of the worst supports in the game? She has a 1000/s heal on almost no cooldown at all, but yet she does not perform at all right now.

    Seris has a 50% of the time cooldown on her heal, so "almost no" is maybe understated. Her 1K heal burst lasts only 2.5 seconds at max while Io can heal for 800 for about 10 seconds. Seris is like Io without Luna so she is not so good.


  • PC

    WEEK 1 EDIT: A few opinion changes, regarding Lian and Strix in most particular. Strix is still broken, and the talks of nerfs coming to him soon are well deserved, and Lian's lack of durability is beginning to haunt her. Also, I thought there'd be some effect on Atlas' viability after the Raum/Torvald nerfs, turns out I was wrong. He's still a bottom tier tank. Held out some hope, but not even with the most optimized build I can make with him, he STILL can't do pretty much anything.

    Also tiers in general went down a little.

    3.2 Tier List, Week 1.png

    And Seris is still a low tier support, but better than Grohk is now... right? I mean Grohk is atrocious, so Seris can't be any worse than that especially after getting buffs. And Io's placement is probably going to change a good few times I can feel it.



  • The list looks quite good now. Pip is too low I think, this is his position as main support, but as 2nd support with his strong CC, ult and movability, he is much better.
    Damba is too high. I tried him two times cause of your tierlist but no chance to make him work for me. He is the only support who has no oomph, no special effect. His Diamond and Platin winrate is 42%. His Master winrate is cough 41%. Damba is no upper tier at the moment, he is in desperate need of a buff.


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