Dusklicious' Tier List


  • PC

    WEEK 1 RE-EDIT: A couple of disagreeable placements getting edited later:

    Revised 3.2 Week 1 Tier List.png

    Also, Raum's higher, and I also put Tiberius in top tier, because he's actually kind of busted right now.



  • @Dusklicious said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    I totally disagree with your stance on Damba. I think his winrate isn't due to him supposedly being weak. I think it's because people play him wrong and to little effect.

    That's why I think tierlists make only sense for a certain Rank/Skill. If Diamond players lack the skill to play Damba effectively he might still be very effective in a pro-player match. Atlas is not bottom tier if the players have Grandmaster skill. It's just extremely difficult to play him as effective as a Fernando.


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    Atlas is not bottom tier if the players have Grandmaster skill. It's just extremely difficult to play him as effective as a Fernando.

    I could see low tier maybe, but not much higher than that. He's missing pretty much everything he needs to be viable.



  • @M3RC3N4RI0 Atlas is not good, just because a good player can make them. work with pure skill doesnt change that.

    Evie totally trash in a noobs hands but is a top pick in high level play...

    Atlas is trash in a noobs bands and only slightly viable in top tier play based on very specific team comps



  • @Dusklicious This is pretty good, couple of things that are 1 off in one way or the other from my perspective... But this is pretty close to being spot on for something that is opinion based.

    Good job


  • PC

    @Shadowpuppy said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    @Dusklicious This is pretty good, couple of things that are 1 off in one way or the other from my perspective... But this is pretty close to being spot on for something that is opinion based.

    There will always be differences of opinion of course. 😛



  • @Shadowpuppy said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    Atlas is trash in a noobs bands and only slightly viable in top tier play based on very specific team comps

    Well Randomnoob a pro-player puts Atlas at A-Tier. Vex30 also pro-player at B-Tier. So I assume with high enough skill he is a good tank.

    I agree. Good tierlist. Except of Io of course. She is must pick top tier best healer waifu ever.


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    @Shadowpuppy said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    Atlas is trash in a noobs bands and only slightly viable in top tier play based on very specific team comps

    Well Randomnoob a pro-player puts Atlas at A-Tier. Vex30 also pro-player at B-Tier. So I assume with high enough skill he is a good tank.

    I honestly kind of laughed off both of their tier lists pretty much the moment I saw their placements of Atlas. On a list like those he's C at best. He has no damage (his damage output is now one of the WORST in the class), absurdly long cooldowns, and has 1 build that MIGHT be KIND OF viable that I know of. The only ability of his that doesn't suck at base is his Stasis Field. I can't imagine how even at a high skill level this character could be used, particularly over other tanks.



  • @Dusklicious said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    He has no damage (his damage output is now one of the WORST in the class)

    His gun has a dps of 500 (like Barik) with the ability to do headshots and long range shots. The headshot does 1125 damage fully charged.


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    @Dusklicious said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    He has no damage (his damage output is now one of the WORST in the class)

    His gun has a dps of 500 (like Barik) with the ability to do headshots and long range shots. The headshot does 1125 damage fully charged.

    He also has no other source of damage in his entire kit. Barik has turrets (which do quite a bit of extra damage) and ult, Ash has bash and ult, Terminus has charges and ult, Raum has his run and his ult (and he also has better DPS)... Atlas just has his cannon that he has to sit and charge for 1.5 whole seconds.

    That slow fire rate is also something to account for as well. I'm pretty sure if a tank had a weapon, theoretically speaking, that took 3 whole seconds to fire but dealt 1500 damage, it would likely end up sucking because simply of the fire rate. Plus in that case, if it had a mag size, it would be likely only 3 at the absolute maximum. Less caut to apply, more of a window to do get hits in... Weapons with a fire rate as slow as even just Terminus' must put that into account (though Term's being a melee weapon makes it bad for Caut anyways).


  • PC

    Pretty sure now that Maeve is better than BK, when it comes to top tiers. Not going to change the list yet for just that, but I'm starting to see it that way. Barik should almost always be able to counter Maeve, yet this doesn't seem to be the case nearly as often as it should be anymore simply because of how absurd she is right now. And that's even considering how strong Barik still is.

    Also, even considering putting Tiberius over BK now, because he can DPS as good as a Strix and flank as good as an Androxus at the same time... That is kind of broken.



  • @Dusklicious said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    He also has no other source of damage in his entire kit. Barik has turrets (which do quite a bit of extra damage) and ult, Ash has bash and ult, Terminus has charges and ult, Raum has his run and his ult (and he also has better DPS)... Atlas just has his cannon that he has to sit and charge for 1.5 whole seconds.

    I checked at the shooting range and the wiki is wrong. If I hold down the the mouse button Atlas needs 14 seconds to shoot 6 times. But he should need 9 seconds. So his actual dps on full charged shots is only around 300. With fast shots he needs just 6 seconds for 6 shots so his dps is then 750.

    Terminus needs 1.1 seconds to strike what is a normal firerate for tanks.


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    Terminus needs 1.1 seconds to strike what is a normal firerate for tanks.

    Slightly slower, but it is around what's normal for slower fire rate tanks (Not Raum, Ruckus, Fernando, Torvald, and Khan). With one crucial difference. He has no range on his attack, at all. Meaning he has no reliable way of consistently applying Cauterize, without having more movement speed than your opponent, which isn't possible without having more Nimble.

    Also, Week 1.5 EDIT:
    3.2 Tier List Week 1.5.png


  • PC

    Here's the Week 2 EDIT, possibly the final one for this patch.

    Week 2 3.2 Tier List (Poss. Final).png

    I'll note a few changes:

    BK- (Down to High Tier)- He simply isn't busted in quite the way Tiberius and Maeve are. He's got plenty of CC and still has quite good damage, but he isn't downright broken.

    Ash- (Up 4 spots)- Brawl is actually a stupid broken card. She can heal for SO much off of it, especially considering that it WORKS on deployables! JayFlare covered it in his Best Off-Tanks video. Plus she's an off that is more than viable point. That in and of itself makes her better than Raum and Khan (though in some ways IMO she's a better Khan straight-up).

    Koga- (Up 3 spots)- He still does a heck of a lot of damage. His DPS output is one of the highest in the game.

    Cassie- (Up to Upper Mid)- I'm starting to think Cassie may still do too much damage... Flanking her in particular is an absolute nightmare still, even after her nerfs. She wins against most of them straight-up... Heck, even Andro. She can two shot him with the right build, he four shots her with his meta build... And she can kill him quite reliably with it as long as she doesn't feed Reversal... Shots go off in roughly the same amount of time. It's stupid.

    Damba- (Down to Median Mid)- Results are really not looking in Damba's favor. I'm surprised by this considering his potential healing output is downright absurd and with the right skillset his ults is one of the most versatile in the game.

    Grohk- (Up to Low Tier)- He's not quite as bad as Lex. His healing is pretty much nonexistent with as little as Caut 2, but damage builds can still work, sort of. It's not as good as other damage options anymore, even among other supports, IMO. Pip's damage build is pretty much the sole reason why he's so much higher than Grohk.


    I'll also add what I think they SHOULD do next patch at the least (but I know for a fact they won't)...:

    • Buff Lex. An RMB buff at least, that's probably the easiest problem of his to fix. Since they've gone on record saying they won't make his dash act like Lian's does... Like it should...
    • Buff Grohk. Buffing the cooldown of totems to 8s per charge might help quite a bit.
    • Buff Atlas. Buffing his F cooldown is the least they can do.
    • Nerf Maeve. Give her actual damage drop-off. Oh and also nerf Cat Burglar's bonus to 25%.
    • Nerf Tiberius. Revert the ult change. That's all I ask.

  • PC

    There are still a few positions I think warrant adjustment, so here's the week 3 edit, and I'm mostly positive this is final for the patch:

    Week 3 3.2 Tier List.png

    Not really many changes to note here, but there's a few differences:

    Khan (Up to Upper Mid)- With the right card build, team coordination, and understanding of the character, Khan is potentially a powerhouse that pressures opponents with his mere presence in the backline or on a flank. Also his ult IMHO has the most potential of all the meta off-tank options. Ash's still has much more versatility and Raum still has the fastest charging tank ult in the game, but Khan's has more follow-up potential, and a longer potential grab range, as well as a refund if you don't hit anyone with it. Morale Boost the sucker and the ult might be as consistently threatening as the Vortex Grip grab if not more so.

    Skye (Down 3 spots)- The Skye nerfs are starting to seem a bit more palpable than I first realized. She's still number 3 support-wise and that's a stupid position for a flank to be in, and she still is a great supplement to a team comp needing a little more healing, even though they already have a support locked in. But now she doesn't do quite as well as either Furia or Jenos does in most scenarios and her off-support potential is the only thing keeping her alive.

    Inara (Down to Median Mid)- Inara still isn't doing as much work as hoped. The damage revert helps her only so much towards competing with the two better point tank options in Barik and Terminus. Sure Treacherous Ground can make quick work out of Barik, and Terminus isn't necessarily a bad matchup either, but Treacherous Ground doesn't cover some problem matchups and it's nonetheless the better of the two viable talents (Grace is viable I suppose, but not really good) in most situations.

    Mal'Damba (Down 3 spots)- He still seems to be dropping off a ways. He's got the numbers healing-wise, most definitely. But he's still not looking too hot in other areas, even at higher skill levels. Most obvious that his winrates are STILL really, REALLY low. I chock part of this, still, to incompetence of the people playing him, but it's really seeming that his value is a support isn't really that high. He doesn't necessarily need a buff, he just needs results.



  • @Dusklicious said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    Buff Lex. An RMB buff at least, that's probably the easiest problem of his to fix. Since they've gone on record saying they won't make his dash act like Lian's does... Like it should...

    As long as Jenos can lift Lex with no effort or aim Lex is fucked. With the Resilance nerf Lex just cant exist.

    He should at least be able to dash out of the grip using his CC immunity talent.


  • PC

    @Shadowpuppy said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    @Dusklicious said in Dusklicious' Tier List:

    Buff Lex. An RMB buff at least, that's probably the easiest problem of his to fix. Since they've gone on record saying they won't make his dash act like Lian's does... Like it should...

    As long as Jenos can lift Lex with no effort or aim Lex is fucked. With the Resilance nerf Lex just cant exist.

    He should at least be able to dash out of the grip using his CC immunity talent.

    I mean Andro can effectively deal with Jenos grip (outside of Power Cosmeum)... In fact he can pretty much cancel Jenos' entire existence as long as he can get to him.

    He can't? That's stupid. A CC immunity talent should actually WORK, you know.

    But I think the RMB fix is the easiest. Right now it's a noob trap that does no damage. His Q sucks @$$ too. Like with the changes to the item costs, his increased credit mechanic does jack $#!+ for him, and it's on a pretty much useless ability with a 30 second cooldown nonetheless. At least allow us to CHOOSE our Retribution target... Have to give Z1 props on that idea, because it actually sounds like something that should have been there to START WITH.

    But yeah Lex is just straight-up garbage, and they aren't fixing him like they should. Instead they're nerfing two characters that don't necessarily need nerfs right this second and BUFFING A TOP TIER. What a time to be alive. Thanks, AoC. Especially you Jay, because YOU TOLD THEM TO DO THESE THINGS (Well, except the reasonless Furia nerf, that's on Z1). But an INCUMBENT MEMBER? TELLING THEM TO BUFF TIBERIUS?... That's what I get for voting you back in... I swear I need to run next year with all the bone-headed things they brought up the last two meetings... They've gotten things right to their credit, but last year's AoC was A LOT better, from all indications. Even if half of them didn't show up and only Jay posted meetings, at least they wouldn't TELL EM to do things THAT ARE THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING, JAY. SHAME ON YOU.



  • @Dusklicious

    Furia's rath was supposed to be a mechanic but its so easy to build it that its pointless. Might as well just make her rath damage her base damage.. I think its a good change. They should give the champ with wings drift.

    Tiberus ultimate is trash and a champs ult should not feel like shit... He needs nerfs, this will help as they can see how strong he is when he has an ultimate...

    Remove the slow from heavy blade.
    Remove the nimble from combat trance.

    I think these are all that is needed to fix him.



  • My final critic then, judged by Platin rank.

    Supports: Jenos is much overrated, his heal is shit for tanks. Io is much underrated, she is so versatile, she can boost speed, she can cap the point, she can stun, she can pocket flanks. Grohk his somewhat underrated, his heal is shit but he is hard to flank, his speed buff and ult are very strong.

    Frontline: Seems fine. Maybe Barik a tiny bit overrated. 🙂

    Damage: I'd put Vivian at Top Tier, she is as damage what Maeve is as flank. Strix is too high. He doesn't feel that strong and his Platinum/Diamond winrate of 46-47% corresponds with my impression. Willo is not that bad. She is not as good as she once was but she has blast damage, anti-heal, vertical movability. Sha Lin is too high. Can't remember to have met a Sha Lin who really rocked the match (like a Vivian). His winrate is like that of Strix.

    Flanks: Seems fine. Maeve and the Tiger on top. Moji is still too low. Platin winrate 59%. Diamond winrate 62%! Master winrate 59%. She is a tank shredder. A team shredder. A monster. I've seen Moji doing terrible things to my team.

    PS
    How can Cassie 2 shot an Androxus? Her crossbow does 680 damage (judged by wiki). Or do you mean a shot-blast-shot combo?


  • PC

    Well, here's the list now as of PTS. There are some opinion changes here along with the actually changed stuff.

    3.3 Early PTS Tier List.png

    Maeve- I just don't see top tier for her, simply because honestly her ult kind of sucks. Really about it.

    Cassie- Yep, Cassie is high tier now. She's essentially where Strix was pre-nerf. She can two-shot most flanks (well four if you count abilities but I don't because she can use them instantly out of autos, so might as well be two), making her a NIGHTMARE still for any flanker to deal with effectively.

    Ash- What toggle? IT DOESN'T WORK. It's identical to how it is on live, so I don't know why they're telling us they did something they didn't actually do. I was... a bit mixed about the whole thing anyways. She was going to be high tier for sure with that change.

    Sha'Lin- I was toying with the concept of putting Sha in high tier because of the new Desert Silence, but nobody seems to have noticed the buff, or Recurve is still going to be meta. Most every flanker's sanity is better off that way.

    Strix- He's still strong don't get me wrong. He's just not consistent anymore. He still outduels even flanks 1v1, as a sniper... He still has everything to be a high tier like last patch, just lower mag sizes.

    Vivian- The nerf makes Opportunity in Chaos kind of suck, but I'm pretty sure people are just going to switch to Booby Trap. Still does good damage, gives her CC, and allows her to just as easily kill flanks as before.

    Jenos- Ehh, I think he's more than okay. I'm not sure what all this doom-saying is about, but he was the safest champion in the entire game before. Healers that heal through walls don't need the kind of range he had pre-nerf.

    Io- I never would have thought just a couple patches ago that Io would be a top 3 support, yet here we are. Part of it is that by and large, these support changes... Were mostly nerfs or buffs that did next to nothing. But Io's? Io's make her... pretty good. And the fact that's enough to be top 3 now should be very shocking.

    Grover- Well, somebody had to fill the 3rd place slot for supports. Even if they're a support I don't quite think belongs in Upper Mid.

    Corvus- Corvus is around where Inara and Evie are, and that would mean... He's just OK and that's it? Yeah, pretty much. His healing is actually not that great, even with the mark considered, and my goodness is his ult terrible for a support. Not to mention that 1k DPS looks a LOT better on paper than it is in-game. His DPS actually feels, not broken, just a little much for a support is it. I thought he'd be much better than this, in fact I originally thought he'd be a high tier.

    Mal'Damba- The buffs aren't that big of a deal. There's quite a few of them, but they're all so tiny as to be barely noticeable. Still just think he's a little underrated.

    Imani- Buffs help a little bit, but not much.

    Fernando- Dash buff shouldn't even be called a buff. It's just a QoL adjustment that happens to help him the tiniest of bits. It doesn't really do anything for him at all.

    Furia- Oh boy did I get it wrong. But Z1's still getting an honorary Darwin Award for this one, because IT KILLED THE CHARACTER. It is now barely even POSSIBLE to build up Wrath... It may as well not even be in the game. I hope the numbskulls who voted him in are happy.

    Skye- Skye is not looking like the greatest option now, which is probably good.

    Atlas- His buffs were a bit helpful, but not really enough to place him higher. He's essentially just kind of viable, but not really good in any capacity. He still lacks damage and he still lacks sustain and his F cooldown is still a little too long.

    Grohk- 100 extra HPS on Spirit's Domain and that's it? You can't be serious Evil Mojo... He's still pretty awful, wouldn't pick him under most any circumstance outside of casual if I decided I wanted to throw. Ouch. And that's after TWO buffs. Vex said this was good pre-buff. 🤣 All I have to say is Vex is a 🤡 for thinking that. Oh and that Atlas was mid-tier. I mean... 😆? He's not even as high as Vex put him now. Not even close.


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