Atlas Buffs: What Now?


  • PC

    I know I've said over and over I like that Atlas is getting buffs and how he seems viable now. But I will argue that this is the wrong direction to take the character if they keep going with these types of changes. Not only is this actually a buff that only really affects his best talent, but it also focuses his kit a little too much on his RMB to be comfortable with.

    What should be buffed (yes, he still needs buffs something bad)? Well, I'd still keep this because these changes are nice, but go in a little bit of a different direction buffing him in the future. I think I've advocated for these changes to happen to Atlas for a while now, I think even before he got nerfed into the unviable state he is on live right now (and not much more than viable likely next patch). Though it will be a complicated fix that will require a slight rework, I think it should make Atlas a strong character that hopefully won't be busted again.


    1. Buff Unstable Fissure. Like this:

    • Fissure explosion time decreased from 3s to 2s.

    I say this because yeah it does damage and all, but are you really going to hit all of that damage if it detonates so slowly as to never really hit anything? But with these changes I really think this talent may actually be situationally usable. It could be a damage alternative for Atlas that would allow him to secure potential 1650 bursts, easily and reliably enough. This would go quite well with a Power Cosmeum Jenos or the like that can easily lock somebody down. Just imagine this paired with a BK, both zoning you. That would be quite scary. Also another change which I'll get to after I'm done going through his talent stuff (don't worry about it being TOO insanely long, the bulk of the changes revolve around talents).


    2. Rework Deja Vu, and put in a weakened version of it in his base kit.

    • New Deja Vu: Enemies hit by Setback are rooted for 1.5 seconds after they would fully regain control of their character (If anybody finds a clearer way to term this, they've got a free upvote).
    • New Setback: Atlas fires a loobed explosive that rewinds enemies within a close distance (8 unit radius) of where the projectile hits back 4s in the past.

    Okay, so Deja Vu has always been the go-to talent for Atlas. Why? Well, let me tell you. The rewind it gives (hitting enemies within 20 unit radius of where it hits, tested that myself) is pretty strong and always has been. And also because base Setback is atrocious and no amount of cooldown reduction's going to fix the problem it has. That being that it doesn't hit reliably enough. I know this would require a slight rework of the character, but this is the best way to kill two birds with one stone. Old Deja can be put into his base kit (with 40% normal radius), while a completely new Deja that roots so you can secure kills easily with it can take its place. With this in consideration, I think Deja will have its place if you need more CC instead of just being universally picked for straight-up being better than his other talents.


    3. Make Temporal Divide work like Inara's new Tremors. In other words:

    • Temporal Divide would allow Atlas to store a second charge of Stasis Field.

    Also nerf Lost Legacy accordingly (I say (50|50) should work), and nerf Phantom Pain to (.7|.7) too. Hear me out on this one. I know there's bound to be somebody that will bring up the quite reasonable gripes of "how cancerous might this be if he can get both charges up at the same time?" and "How is this really better for Atlas as a character?" I'll answer both of these. Firstly, current Temporal Divide is not effective, it is just extremely annoying to play against. It pretty much just blocks out any projectiles through a certain point of the map, at a pretty steep cost for the Atlas. He has to wait 21 seconds for it to come up pre-Chronos. And secondly as for the "cancerousness" of 2 Fields up at once, it wouldn't increase height. Only width. So with enough verticality you can easily get around it. Making this talent countered by the likes of Drogoz, Evie, Androxus. BUT, what it WOULD do, is allow Lost Legacy to double stack, Beyond the Veil to potentially double stack, and it could also be used to double stack Infinity Engine (which would warrant a nerf after this as well, to something like (1|1)s). It would also be quite good paired with Phantom Pain V, instead of usable in theory, just annoying and nothing more in practice.

    3.5 To accomodate for this change, nerf his base Stasis Field like this:

    • After taking 3000 damage, the field cracks so enemies can fire through parts of it.

    This nerf is purely to make Temporal Divide less potentially ridiculous. Sure you could double stack them in front of you so it has no real effect until they both take 6k damage, but that would leave your sides and back completely exposed so you can easily be hit.


    4. Buff the cooldown of Second Chance, to maybe 16 seconds.

    This is of course the change I mentioned earlier that would also help Unstable Fissure. The cooldown of this ability is way too long at base anyways to make good consistent use of, especially considering it has no card to reduce the cooldowns of it. Combining this with Unstable Fissure gives him a reliable damage tool that with enough Chronos investment will be up once every 11 seconds. It would give him much more survivability in the end which is something that Atlas desperately needs if he wants to survive in the meta as an off-tank along with the best (Ash, Raum, Khan right now). Along with the next change, that could be as low as 7.15 seconds if you get an Elim after it. Of course that means...


    5. Change Ravages of Time to a CDR on eliminations card.

    • New Ravages of Time: "Reduce your cooldowns by (7|7)% after getting an Elimination."

    I think I mentioned this in a thread about card changes (think it was started by @Shadowpuppy), it was probably the only change that was well-received there because well, I tried fixing this character with only cards in that thread when it just is not that simple. This would give Atlas more uptime on abilities so you could actually utilize them more often as well as better. This is sort of the trade-off for the aforementioned nerf to Phantom Pain I talked about with the section on Temporal Divide. It allows him to reduce the cooldowns on all of his abilities on elims just like every other tank, and most other champions in the game. That could potentially be so valuable on a character with lengthy cooldowns. It may make him be no longer forced to buy Chronos.


    6. Give 200 damage per charge to Exile.

    His ultimate is probably one of the worst in the class let's face facts. It just locks down an enemy per charge for a brief period of time. No damage, no anything else. And you have to be able to hit it too, which isn't always easy. Rewarding the player for hitting them I think is the right call, by giving it a little damage. But not too much to bloat it.


    Does this sound a little overpowered (Which I'm thinking may be the case) or something? Constructive feedback on these ideas would be appreciated. I'm sure I did a good enough job explaining myself to anyone who cares to read such an essay as is this post.


    Changes discussed so anyone can clearly see them all (Yeah I wouldn't make them do this in one patch by the way), In the order I discussed them ((-) for nerfs, (+) for buffs, (R) for reworks):

    • Unstable Fissure- Explosion time decreased from 3s to 2s. (+)
    • Deja Vu- Reworked, now would root enemies hit by Setback for 1.5 seconds after they would fully regain control of their character. (R, ?)
    • Setback- Now fires a lobbed explosive that rewinds enemies within an 8 unit radius back 4s in the past. (+)
    • Temporal Divide- Now grants Atlas a second charge of Stasis Field. (R, ?)
    • Stasis Field- Now develops cracks after taking 3000 damage. (-)
    • Lost Legacy- Healing per second nerfed to (50|50) from (80|80). (-)
    • Phantom Pain- Cooldown reduction on Stasis Field decreased to (.7|.7) seconds from (1|1) second(s). (-)
    • Infinity Engine- Duration when having Stasis Field up makes Atlas no longer consume ammo decreased from (2|2)s to (1|1)s. (-)
    • Second Chance- Cooldown decreased from 18 seconds to 16 seconds. (+)
    • Ravages of Time- Now reduces Atlas' cooldowns by (7|7)% after getting an Elimination." (R, +)
    • Exile- Now deals 200 damage per hit per charge. (+)


  • @Dusklicious

    I think allot of what you have said would help allot. I think that putting the AOE rewind in his kit would be ok if it had falloff. Closer to the center goes further back in time.

    Unstable Fissure is trash and even if it could hit people more often i do not think it would be worth using. I think that it should be changed to it sucks 1 person in after 1.5 seconds and puts them right where Atlas went. So he can blast them with a full charged shot.

    The wall is unbreakable so i do not know how i feel about him having two of them.

    Kill him to low health, rewind
    Kill him to low health wall
    Kill him to low health wall
    Kill him to low health rewind again

    I think he would end up being a god tier point tank with two walls that last 5 seconds and cannot be destroyed.

    I could see the walls being changed to be larger in the base kit but the wall gets smaller the more damage it takes. Or reducing the wall cool down to a much lower number but people shooting the wall increases the cool down of the wall

    second chance is like a mini term ult every 16 seconds, i cant say that giving him the ability to reset this thing all the time would be healthy. To be honest all his skill are just to good and that is why they have to have such high cool downs.

    Though his ult does suck ass unless you got a dredge on your team. Dredge right click and Atlas Ult is the stuff dreams are made off.



  • @Shadowpuppy said in Atlas Buffs: What Now?:

    @Dusklicious

    I think allot of what you have said would help allot. I think that putting the AOE rewind in his kit would be ok if it had falloff. Closer to the center goes further back in time.

    Unstable Fissure is trash and even if it could hit people more often i do not think it would be worth using. I think that it should be changed to it sucks 1 person in after 1.5 seconds and puts them right where Atlas went. So he can blast them with a full charged shot.

    The wall is unbreakable so i do not know how i feel about him having two of them.

    Kill him to low health, rewind
    Kill him to low health wall
    Kill him to low health wall
    Kill him to low health rewind again

    I think he would end up being a god tier point tank with two walls that last 5 seconds and cannot be destroyed.

    I could see the walls being changed to be larger in the base kit but the wall gets smaller the more damage it takes. Or reducing the wall cool down to a much lower number but people shooting the wall increases the cool down of the wall

    second chance is like a mini term ult every 16 seconds, i cant say that giving him the ability to reset this thing all the time would be healthy. To be honest all his skill are just to good and that is why they have to have such high cool downs.

    Though his ult does suck ass unless you got a dredge on your team. Dredge right click and Atlas Ult is the stuff dreams are made off.

    He'll be the new Barik. lol. Personally, I don't like Atlas as a point tank. I think they got him right with the sniper tank, which is a unique character design in my opinion. He patrols the flank routes by keeping an eye and setting back anyone who tries to get in close, and he pressures the backline by trading blows with them.

    I like most of Dusk's suggestions here. Part of Deja Vu in his base kit because he sucks without it, but nerf it so he isn't too good. More cc in his kit is the right way to go as well. Though I don't like the double wall idea because you can max out the card that heals with stasis field and heal for 750 over 3 seconds, and then another 750 over 3 seconds, then rewind when you don't have more walls. That's more sustain than Barik! Maybe nerf the size of it, but only increase the cooldown by 30%, roughly 18 seconds, and it lasts 30% longer to compensate for the longer cooldown.

    I'm not familiar with Atlas, but maybe a quality of life change to where you can hold down the button for stasis field before setting it down. I don't know if he can, but if he can't that would be a nice option for him to have.


  • PC

    @Shadowpuppy said in Atlas Buffs: What Now?:

    @Dusklicious

    I think allot of what you have said would help allot. I think that putting the AOE rewind in his kit would be ok if it had falloff. Closer to the center goes further back in time.

    Unstable Fissure is trash and even if it could hit people more often i do not think it would be worth using. I think that it should be changed to it sucks 1 person in after 1.5 seconds and puts them right where Atlas went. So he can blast them with a full charged shot.

    The wall is unbreakable so i do not know how i feel about him having two of them.

    Kill him to low health, rewind
    Kill him to low health wall
    Kill him to low health wall
    Kill him to low health rewind again

    I think he would end up being a god tier point tank with two walls that last 5 seconds and cannot be destroyed.

    I could see the walls being changed to be larger in the base kit but the wall gets smaller the more damage it takes. Or reducing the wall cool down to a much lower number but people shooting the wall increases the cool down of the wall

    second chance is like a mini term ult every 16 seconds, i cant say that giving him the ability to reset this thing all the time would be healthy. To be honest all his skill are just to good and that is why they have to have such high cool downs.

    Though his ult does suck ass unless you got a dredge on your team. Dredge right click and Atlas Ult is the stuff dreams are made off.

    Maybe... I mean it will effectively have much less range than it does now with Deja. Deja's partially so strong because it hits in a 20x20 unit area, this would only hit in an 8x8.

    Unstable is $#!+ as it is now, but your suggestion sounds like you'll either have to gut the damage or have it overpowered. It would be guaranteed free damage for the Atlas, and it would also CC for your team at the same time. Broken idea, though I do think after all of this it would still end up his worst talent.

    Yeah it could potentially be kind of busted if played well enough. But I really don't think it would make him a god tier point tank in any way. His wall has its weaknesses. Not to mention having both of them to do that with, that would have a 28 second cooldown with his base kit. Sure it can be reduced a ways through cards, but I really see it as an option in the end rather than something broken. Point Atlas even as it will be in 3.3 would still be one of the worst options in the game only really beating the likes of Ruckus, Khan, and Torv point. And that's accounting for if he runs live Temporal Divide. Also characters with verticality would still force him out easily enough and he'd be the easiest point tank in existence to flank unless his F is up, which will take a while longer than you suggest it does. It is the part I was the most worried about potentially breaking though. I do sort of like the idea that @HeartQueen has that maybe it should diminish after taking damage in his base kit, because part of the ideas' intent is to make Atlas have a flexible playstyle that depends on his talent choice by primarily focusing on his talents.

    Second Chance is nowhere near as good as term ult for sustaining though? Not to mention, it compensates for his lack of mobility and it can also be easily countered by anyone with a stun or a cripple. Grover roots you, you're still dead. BK hits you with a Grumpy, you're still dead. Yeah you get the picture.

    I thought about putting damage in his ult as an option maybe. Though it would be a pretty low amount of damage as to not bloat it. Like 200 per charge or so.

    @HeartQueen A. You didn't read the nerf to LL I put in did you? It would only end up healing him for 250 per wall, total of 500 per second (3 seconds) for 2 walls up at the same time, at rank 5. And B. Barik has mobility (a lot in fact for a tank) and Atlas has none. Atlas will need the sustain to survive on the objective, unlike Barik who can just press F and take cover/escape when he needs to. Atlas doesn't have that privilege. Inara doesn't either, which is why she needs her sustain and part of why she can't really do nearly as good point as Barik or Term.

    I'm surprised nobody pointed out Infinity Engine and how you could have potentially have infinite ammo, though I nerfed that too to compensate, though perhaps not hard enough.



  • I never understood why people suggest full-on kit reworks on things that don't need them.

    What am saying is: how can you encourage developers to buff/change specific hero when your suggest so overcomplicated a change that will end up costing dev's resources almost as much as coding kit for new champion in the end?

    Still, I do think he needs more buffs that will make him feel more fun to use. As for your suggestions...

    @Dusklicious said in Atlas Buffs: What Now?:

    1. Buff Unstable Fissure. Like this:

    Fissure explosion time decreased from 3s to 2s.

    This is something I agree. This talent is literally barely doing anything. But I don't think that would be enough to make it worth picking. My suggestion is to make this explosion also destroy all shields in the area on top of it to give it situational purpose. Fun fact, it actually used to destroy all shields when Atlas released before they just patched it instead of simply making it intentional.

    1. Rework Deja Vu, and put in a weakened version of it in his base kit.

    Are we playing the same game? Deja Vu was the go-to talent, until people starting to realize how powerful Big Wall is and everyone is using this one instead. As a result I don't want any reworks to his talents due to how well designed they are.

    Atlas is literally the only champion in the game whose 3 talents actually change the way use his abilities and gives him 3 distinct playstyles, and your rework changes this premise. Your talent changes nothing about how you use this ability, and also remove the option to give him hitscan setback. That's a no from me.

    Unstable fissure needs a lot of buffs, and wall needs base kit buffs so as to prevent peeps to go big wall only, but from a design perspective and not a balance perspective, his talents are perfect. Don't. Rework. Them.

    1. Make Temporal Divide work like Inara's new Tremors.

    In addition to what I said above...

    Nope. No. This is an awful idea. And you want to rework half of his cards and even his base kit to accomodate for this talent. Do you not see how problematic that is?

    1. Buff the cooldown of Second Chance, to maybe 16 seconds.

    Maybe, maybe.

    1. Change Ravages of Time to a CDR on eliminations card.

    A champion whose entirety of design is about having extremely powerful abilities, but on very long cooldowns gets a CD reset card... no thanks. I know you're fan of these reset builds, but Atlas is literally the only champion in the game who would become broken because of it.

    1. Give 200 damage per charge to Exile.

    I don't mind this idea, but there are better changes that would make this ult funnier to use instead.


    Atlas is such a sad character. I really, really dig his visual design, but his kit is just so clunky to use I can't stand playing him sooo much. But there are few ways to improve the way he feels while playing him.

    I have a little bit different view from you, because you play this champion more than I do, but I do have few suggestion on how to make him fun to play with/against:


    • Chronocannon
      • Reduce charge time 1.4 --> 1.2s
      • Now can be held after reaching max charge for 0.8s

    This is the only "reworkish" thing that I want to suggest that is not a number tweak, but man, I feel like I would love this weapon so much more if you could hold max charge for a tiny bit of a time window. With reduced charge time it would make comboing it with setback/ult so much more fluid and fun, too.

      • Reduce recoil

    Just change it so as to make this gun feel better to use, it isn't gonna break this weapon due to its fire rate, instead it's going to make this weapon less nauseous to use.


    • Setback
      • Cooldown increased 10 --> 14s;

    This is the only nerf I am going to give Atlas

    The are two reasons why I suggest that. The first one is that I absolutely despise this ability's whole existence when playing against Atlas. It's just not very fun to be on its receiving end.

    Second reason is how clunky this ability really is, it doesn't allow Atlas to play as fluidly. As a general rule to designing a playable character, if a champion has a really clunky ability, you want to make its CD very high but make it powerful instead. The Grohk rework is a testament to this idea. I never noticed how difficult and clunky his totem placement really is until they made him able to place 3 of them at the same time with a lower cooldown per totem.


    • Stasis Field
      • Is now 15% larger in every direction (Temporal Divide size unchanged)

    This is so much needed change that will make his shield feel less clunky, mainly due to the fact it would cover his legs while shielding up a slope, it's so annoying how they can shot you in the feet at uneven ground unless you pick Temporal Divide, make it extend downwards like Barik shield for the love of Barik's beard. Maybe Temporal Divide wouldn't be a must pick if that happened.

      • Stasis spawns the moment you press the button instead of deploying after small delay.

    I hate how delayed this shield is. If I want to do shield rotated 90 degrees, I need to time it annoyingly instead of just flicking into right/left to do that. Why...

      • Can now be activated while using Chrono-cannon;

    This is suggestion from someone else I saw on the forum, and man, would that make his kit more fluid to use. I don't think it would really break him, instead it would make him less of a chore.


    • Rewind
      • is fine.

    The only thing I would love to see is a card that increases his movement speed after rewind, because sometimes you're forced to rewind back a pretty decent distance, but as ability, I guess it's not that bad to use. Maybe reduce the delay after weapon shot or something.


    • Exile
      • Remove self-slow

    It's already a weak ult, at least let me feel comfortable while using it. Nobody likes being a sitting duck for couple seconds when using something that does almost jack nothing half of the time.


    I would also give him your Unstable Fissure buffs, and 500 HP. He has Barik health, but doesn't have Barik cards. Make his health even with other Frontlines ffs.


  • PC

    @TTraw said in Atlas Buffs: What Now?:

    • Chronocannon
      • Reduce charge time 1.4 --> 1.2s
      • Now can be held after reaching max charge for 0.8s

    This is the only "reworkish" thing that I want to suggest that is not a number tweak, but man, I feel like I would love this weapon so much more if you could hold max charge for a tiny bit of a time window. With reduced charge time it would make comboing it with setback/ult so much more fluid and fun, too.

      • Reduce recoil

    Just change it so as to make this gun feel better to use, it isn't gonna break this weapon due to its fire rate, instead it's going to make this weapon less nauseous to use.


    This alone is enough to say f*** no to your entire list of suggestions. Not only will this completely break his weapon to be BETTER based on just DPS as it used to be back before it got nerfed pre-season 3 (Had 600 then, would have 625), but it will also just have some absolutely stupid properties that make it take less skill to get that damage out of it... 1.2 second charge would pretty much mean he essentially has more consistent DPS out of that weapon than pretty much the rest of the class barring Ruckus and maybe, MAYBE Raum. I mean holding charged shots...? Just... Why? These ideas for his weapon would be way more problematic than anything I suggested seems like it could be. I even made plenty of changes accomodating for the potential broken-ness of it. Oh and after complaining about Temporal Divide being annoying to deal with, you want to keep it the same and even give the base Barrier some extra area... Wow, that totally doesn't seem hypocritical and totally doesn't counter what you say about him in any way.

    If I'm being honest, I hate the direction all of these ideas would take the character, except for a couple that I think are okay. The ult not having a self-slow wouldn't be too bad of a change. Though it wouldn't do much on its own to make it not the second worst tank ult in the entire game.

    Also, yeah you'd have to do a little bit of a rework Atlas to fix him pretty much at all at this point without breaking something if I'm being honest. The character has some design flaws that prevent him from being anything other than too strong or too weak. Biggest one being base RMB which is one of the worst abilities in the entire game. It's Deja Vu that makes it useful, let alone good. Which also contributes to why I can't see how you got the idea that Temporal Divide is anything other than a cheese talent that doesn't really work any better than Deja does, and in fact is worse, let alone META? I happen to know for a fact that's false. When I see Atlas, 9 times out of 10, it's with Deja and that 1 time it is TD. And most Atlas players either feed horribly or run almost the same card setup. Speaking of which...

    Actually, he does have some pretty good cards. Lost Legacy and Phantom Pain are really good (So good in fact I had to nerf them because with my suggestion they'd be absolutely busted) and Hell Hunter is one of the best fillers in the entire game if you can get adjusted to his weapon with the free ammo. They're the only things keeping Atlas alive really, aside from Deja because those cards need Deja to work together, and because Deja is just stupid from a design perspective. I mean theoretically they can work with Temporal Divide, but that would be if hitting base Setback shots wasn't so inconsistent that Phantom Pain won't even really work in the build anyways.



  • @Dusklicious First things first, take your chill pills before they run out of stock. It seems you are not in the mood today.

    Second, how is making him charge faster increasing his dps? Are you forgetting hs DPS at no charge will be unchanged? His max charge DPS is absurdly low 300/s. And holding it for additional 0.8s would make it work really well with his setbacks and ult.

    Third, all Atlases I play with run TD, and pro players like Rubbu recommend to use it as the go-to as well due to covering shields natural issues I mentiond and giving Atlas access to more instantenuous Setback. So I figured this is his meta talent. I don't think I've seen Deja Vu lately if at all.



  • I am glad we forgot about this conversation, just like we forgot about Atlas' entire existence.

    One random idea I've came up with about his ult I wanted to ask you guys: how powerful that would be if Atlas could use his abilities during his ult? Maybe rewind would be OP, but how about Stasis and Setback? Thoughts?



  • Guys, we all agree that setback as an ability is jank as all hell.
    The base ability is too unforgiving to rely upon.
    But if you have the time of day for my seasoned battle rants, then steel yourselves,

    WHY WE HATE.
    Not only does setback posess a prefire wind up, but a projectile travel time as well, for only a single target application.
    Which ends in a fairly unreliable catch move, a bit weaker then then koa hook, but now hits frequent with reduced CD.
    But here we ask ourselves.... why? what is the point? when the setback ability feels lackluster and unsecure to depend upon.
    Due to its hinderances, it sees litttle use until the oppertunity presents itself with the enemy giving you a moment for it.

    FEELS LIKE SHOOTING FISH WITH A HAMMER
    Now don't get me wrong... I have hit evie's, grovers, drogoz, andros in mid air, and honestly, its a fairly neutral effect unless you have the right situation. Remember that you probably have won games by the enemy Atlas rewinding someone at the wrong time.

    TIME FOR AN UPGRADE
    Personally chaps, I feel setback design needs to be hitscan after its prefire in order to reduce the skill needed on the shot. A converting the bull burster into the who throws tennis balls of time is just.... why... I bullet things, do not make me pre bullet things with an attack with a mid heavy CD that takes 3 shots to get the hang of as I have no other projectiles to compare it to.... geez.
    With a more reliable CC application it should have its 12s CD, it would be something that all morale men fear on release instead of... doot doot trumpet noise.
    RAILGUN THE ENEMY A INTO A NEW YESTERDAY
    Increasing the hit security but recucing the rewind window would make for better buffs.
    Think about it, makoa has a 2s hard Cc stun and pull, that leaves you open to being dead.
    Atlas has a wonky setback charge time, but when it lands, you are untargetable, and you only move depending on your movement stance in the game.

    That also said, the rail gun hit scan would also be viable for AoE Talent, to explode on target and pierce all foes in range. But reduce the AoE to no longer clear a choke with ease. Hit scan would remove THAT WONK ARC the talent set back or travels along, allowing it to have some wonk hang time when fired upwards on certain maps.


  • PC

    @TTraw said in Atlas Buffs: What Now?:

    One random idea I've came up with about his ult I wanted to ask you guys: how powerful that would be if Atlas could use his abilities during his ult? Maybe rewind would be OP, but how about Stasis and Setback? Thoughts?

    Pretty freaking broken. He could pretty much use it for free with either of those paired with it as long as they're off CD (which I'm sure any Atlas would take advantage of). I'd rather have the little bit of damage on it instead honestly.

    And if rewind were added too, I'd have to say his ult would be probably, quite easily the strongest ultimate in the entire game's history. With just these suggestions alone I could very easily see it being the strongest ult in the game.



  • @Dusklicious
    I figured. But how big of a difference that is, really? I already wall myself off before using my ult, will making it usable during it that big of a deal?

    Idk man, I feel like when I am playing Atlas, I am just constantly not allowed to use my abilities. It's so clunky and unfun. I wish he could literally just chain his abilities like Cassie or Lian, but I guess his abilites are too powerful to do that. I figured him needing buffs would encourage devs to improve his kit delays instead of just numerically buffing his damage/survivability/etc.

    I like the fact he has that set-up thing going on for him but that's not enough to keep me interested. All his abilities are just chore to use, but I feel like simple delay reductions could make him my fav frontline.

    Idk, maybe my build is just trash or sth. I am only lvl 15 at him so I guess I am unexperienced.

    At least let him use his stasis field while he holds his primary fire or sth.

    Btw, where did you even get 625 dps from???


  • PC

    @TTraw said in Atlas Buffs: What Now?:

    @Dusklicious
    I figured. But how big of a difference that is, really? I already wall myself off before using my ult, will making it usable during it that big of a deal?

    Idk man, I feel like when I am playing Atlas, I am just constantly not allowed to use my abilities. It's so clunky and unfun.

    Btw, where did you even get 625 dps from???

    Pretty much. Imagine a stun that lasts for 8 seconds without any sort of real counterplay, while Atlas still gets 20% charge back because he'd only have to use 2 charges of the ult. Even buying Resilience won't help you all that much because Atlas can still hit you with a third hit. Which would mean even at Resilience 3, you'd be still left with a 3 second stun. Which by itself isn't overpowered, but when you combine that with the sustain he'd get along with it... Just having essentially an ulted Makoa health pool, and a setback along with it... Scary AF. The reason it's not that good now is because you can easily counterplay it by just focusing him or CCing him. Or better yet avoiding it altogether because he also moves slower during it. Honestly the way I see it his ult should be on the weak side because otherwise it would potentially be broken, just simply due to the ultimate's design and the Resilience nerfs existing.

    The reason why that is, is because his cooldowns are too long. 18 second cooldown on a regular ability that's core to his kit and a 21s cooldown for the field when using Temporal Divide (which I assume you use) are just crazy long. A lot of the changes I made are meant to tackle those very issues, though trying to without also breaking the character. It really is a lot more complicated to do than it may seem on paper, because he has a couple of broken cards that get in the way and some design issues. It also of course is meant to make Atlas play in a way based on his talents, which is part of why I tried to make most of them strong. Though with Fissure it's less the talent and more the cards you can pair with it.

    Simple division. Damage/charge time. 750/1.2. On live his DPS by this calculation is exactly equal to Barik's if he hits all 13 pellets (500). After the weapon buff (which feels better than it probably is), it comes out to roughly 536. Nonetheless, the weapon change you suggested is actually a bit stronger than Atlas was pre-nerf going by the numbers.



  • @Dusklicious said in Atlas Buffs: What Now?:

    Simple division. Damage/charge time. 750/1.2. On live his DPS by this calculation is exactly equal to Barik's if he hits all 13 pellets (500). After the weapon buff (which feels better than it probably is), it comes out to roughly 536. Nonetheless, the weapon change you suggested is actually a bit stronger than Atlas was pre-nerf going by the numbers.

    Hmmm. That doesnt feel right. There's clear delay after you fully charge your weapon.

    Your answer got me pretty intrigued and thus I decided to record Atlas' weapon and checked the timing in a video editor.

    From what I recorded it seems that, after holding it fully for exactly 1.5s, there's about 1s delay before you can start charging again. So, for fully charged shots his DPS is... fearsome 300 DPS, and it used to be 360 prenerf.

    My buff to make it 1.2s will turn it into about 340 which is still lower than what it used to be, on top of that, it still wont have the 1350 bs headshots, so maybe it's more balanced than you think. And it's not like instarelease DPS gets increased by this change, it just stays the same. As for being able to hold max charge for 0.8s, I did it because my 1.2s would mess up the timing combo with Setback and/or his ult. I feel like it would make his weapon much convenient to use, too.

    Speaking of non-released shots, the 1s delay I mentioned would mean that atlas has 750 DPS up close, which sounds absolutely ridiculous and completely not in line with reality. So I recorded 0 charge shots and checked them out too. To my surprise the delay between instarelease shots seems to not be the exact 1s it was for fully charged shots.

    I don't have any answers as to why, but my guess is that either the additional pellets he shoots at lower charge levels add up to the delay time OR there's 0.1-0.2 minimum charge time before the weapon can be fired. The second option sounds reasonable because that would make his weapon consistent in timing as it would alleviate the human error, so since it is Paladins, the first one is probably the true one because it makes no sense from coding perspective.

    Man, what a confusing weapon. They need to update it's advanced ability preview.



  • Atlas vs evil dead's gun arm...

    The gun has a strange format of Dps to calculate, its not basic damage per shot like other champions.

    IT FIRES IN A BURST... AND DOES NOT TELL YOU HOW LONG EACH TIER OF BURST LASTS... FUCK THIS GAMES BATTLEMATH.
    So its not as easy to calc as flat DPS, its also a matter of X Damage over Y seconds depending on the charge time. As well as delaying your dps for damage security and range and minimise spread.

    In addition to the prefire charge time, it has what feels like a massive post firetime that reduces refire rate and cuts into his actual damage per sec, severly cutting into his dps further with charged shots.

    This postfire, combined with fireing in a burst as a primary attack, with variable charge time, really drags out the time he deals damage and mitigates whatever big number he has for his primary.

    The damage per volley feels too soft for the weight of the gun, and in all honesty, the gun is a tad to clunky for paladins that I do not see 0.1s doing much to give Atlas an egde while there are other loose screws that need to be tightened on the gun.

    The guns basic reactivity creates a major problem for Atlad, makes it a pain for Atlad fend off against multiple champions let alone a fast one. Which is all thrown onto talents to deal with this situation...

    I do not mind a 1.2s charge time, charging at 0.4s per rank instead of the slightest 0.1s removed to test the waters and mess up the stream line 0.5s per charge rank that was before.
    A bit of holding time would not go amiss, 0.3s to just have a bit of variable unleash time to have a better window to hit a foe from afar, counter poke snipers and a bit more security to nail someone coming out of etherial.

    There is not much fun in trying to use this gun on console as a mouse gives you the rail gun flicks.
    But his damage has to be fair... hey 750 is alright if that postfire stays and the charge time gets reduced.

    His gun just does not really forfill the sniper tank roll.... yet... and he really should as his shmick.

    As for abilitity use in ult.

    Second Chance should be the only ability that can be used during Ult .. breaking the use of the ult in doing so. The Cc from the setback and ult is strong enough lockdown, there is not enough cc cleanses and protection for that to be any fun to joust.



  • @TTraw said in Atlas Buffs: What Now?:

    Speaking of non-released shots, the 1s delay I mentioned would mean that atlas has 750 DPS up close, which sounds absolutely ridiculous and completely not in line with reality.

    Wiki:
    Deals 50 damage per shot
    Fires 15, 10, 5 or 1 shot depending on charge time.

    The damage of the gun is always 750, no matter how long the charge time. For firing 5 fully charges shots it takes 11 seconds at shooting range, so the dps is 3750/11=340. With normal uncharged shots it takes 5 seconds to fire 5 shots. So the dps is indeed 750.

    Why is this "ridiculous and not in line with reality"?



  • @M3RC3N4RI0 great, what did you use to count the time it took him to fire whole magazine? I am not denying I might've made error in my calculations



  • @M3RC3N4RI0

    It would only be 750 dps if the damage was sustained and continious without interrupts.
    But its not full auto.
    Its has a burstfire postfire that I swear cuts into the sustain dps and reduces it. Unless the burst damage compensates for the postfire, that I feel unsure about.

    So it may be 750 dps for per salvo, but there is a clear half second the postfire cuts in and it averages out to what feels like 550-600 dps.

    But then there is also the spread and falloff at max fire rate that reduces dps anyway.

    But I can't exactly crank out the stop watch to test it, or be bothered to do battlemath when there is not enough in the advanced character info or training grounds to get info.

    But I have a feeling that the mojo are not perfect at rigging burstfire firearms, and can leave loopholes with a gun like this.

    But I know that the weapon needs to feel better in the way of wind up charge dps for ranged sniper tank play, as right now its to inconsistant.

    You know what... they need a infinite life shooting dummy with a dps scale alongside to measure dps in shooting range, to save all our time.



  • @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Atlas Buffs: What Now?:

    or firing 5 fully charges shots it takes 11 seconds at shooting range, so the dps is 3750/11=340. With normal uncharged shots it takes 5 seconds to fire 5 shots.

    hmmm, this is not true at all, I recorded atlas AGAIN and firing 5 fully charged shots took me about 12.5s. Which is in line of what I said earlier.

    Meanwhile 5 uncharged shots took me a little more than 6s (so I am assuming it's 6 due to human error).

    How the hell does that weapon work? There's 1s delay after fully charging but uncharged shots have 1.2s delay?

    Does that mean it is safe to assume each level of his charge reduces the delay by 0,05s?

    If that's the case, then his DPS is:

    625 at no charge
    ~454 DPS at 1st charge
    ~357 DPS at 2nd charge
    300 DPS at full charge

    Assuming no human error.



  • @TTraw said in Atlas Buffs: What Now?:

    hmmm, this is not true at all

    Yeah. I only took time how long it takes to fire 5 shots. If I correctly add the past-fire animation of the last shot the dps is lower.


  • PC

    I feel like there is something very misleading about Atlas' fully charged cannon DPS. Actually a few things:

    • It has almost no drop-off unlike other tank weapons.
    • It's also pinpoint-accurate, like shots from Strix/Kinessa rifles.
    • Of course, the fact that fully charged shots are generally either used for ammo sustain or long-range hits, and not for dishing out the most DPS. Uncharged shots give you DPS more alike to Barik's Blunderbuss. I'm pretty sure that last bit was already brought up.

    Nonetheless the buff to it next patch is quite necessary even if buffing it more IMHO is really the wrong direction to take the character, instead focusing on his talents and his cooldown issue.