Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.



  • @Dusklicious tbh, I think makoas gonna be decent but not lower high. But i feel like fernando, ruckus and atlas at least need to be median mid, nandos biggest counter got nerfed. Ruckus can pretty much take any 1v1 and is therefore a must pick in high elos. Atlas is gonna be kinda meta with his new 840 damage, hes a great and underrated tank. I still think vik will be really meta, burst mode still has the highest dps in the game and predator is still an okay card. Maeve and andro are a bit on the same level, and andro might even be better than maeve in high elos. But I agree with the most of this tierlist. Hope I changed ur view on some champs.


  • PC

    @schachmaty said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    For the most part I agree with the list. Only things I'd change:
    -Barik below Inara: He feels really easy to kill for a tank, especially for hitscan characters, he's so easy to headshot. And his damage output is terrible too, 100 dmg anywhere other than close range
    -Evie in Median Mid: in a coordinated environment she's still picked regularly, but when it comes to solo carrying I agree there are better choices, like Maeve or Andro..
    -Ruckus in Upper Mid: he's super good at diving the backline, especially if he has a flank playing with him, really strong. He's so damn underrated.
    -Grohk in low tier, his uses are very limited.
    -Io & Corvus into High Tier, cuz they're such strong pocket characters, and Io basically has everything and is in dire need of nerfs.

    "Barik's damage output is terrible" Huh? I know for a fact if you play the character competently, in most of your matches, you're going to do a heck of a lot more damage than most tanks will. Of course I main the character so maybe that factors into doing top damage in like half the ranked games I play him. Inara gets like half of Barik's damage from my experiences, and doesn't quite sustain twice as well. Barik has issues with burst sure, but honestly if he didn't he might be high tier. His damage output is really high for a tank and he can actually sustain fairly well if you utilize his shorter stature.

    Add that Evie's more difficult to play than either and there you go. Pretty much exactly what I would say.

    Ruckus in upper mid: lol no. Ruckus is a throw pick in ranked most of the time, unless the player is particularly competent with him. His sustain is pretty abysmal, and his damage output is high for a tank but that doesn't really fix the fact he can't even function as a tank. I don't see how any of that changes.

    Grohk is getting buffed, you know that right? And yeah the Grohk buffs aren't anything to scoff at either. Granted next patch is a damage Grohk nerf, the buffs to healing Grohk IMO make him potentially pretty decent. In fact, I've seen Heal Grohk work pretty decently as high as Plat/Diamond ranked.

    Io's nerfs are pretty huge, especially making Luna cautable. Luna's sustain is FAR worse next patch. As for Corvus, hes POTENTIALLY high tier with the right synergies. Without the right synergies he's actually pretty mid tier.



  • @Dusklicious said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    She's low because she's so easy for any hitscan to adequately deal with and she's pretty much countered by half decent positioning. Even Dredge is far better because at least he does good damage... She does by far the lowest output of any blaster in the game.

    She has excellent winrates at Diamond and Masters though, shouldn't high rank players be capable of half decent positioning?

    @schachmaty said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    Barik below Inara: He feels really easy to kill for a tank, especially for hitscan characters, he's so easy to headshot. And his damage output is terrible too, 100 dmg anywhere other than close range

    Wiki says: Has dynamic damage fall off of 85. Damage is reduced up to 50% at maximum range.

    So Barik's damage should never be below 250 for a full hit. He can do headshots and his turrets do extra damage.


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    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    So Barik's damage should never be below 250 for a full hit. He can do headshots and his turrets do extra damage.

    That doesn't necessarily work like that, although what they are saying here is completely ridiculous nonetheless.

    The thing is his damage is divided into 13 pellets, each of them doing roughly 38.5 damage. At longer ranges it's much more unlikely to hit all the pellets on a single target, and you will deal less damage because of that.

    The problem with his assessment isn't that, but it's the fact you aren't going to always engage people from range anyways. Normally in fact you should try to get as close to the enemy as is safe to do because of that very factor. And that drop-off doesn't somehow make Barik's damage abysmal. In fact, back when Better Meta was up, it always showed Barik in the top 3 damage-wise for tanks even at his worst. AtM he's at the least 2nd in terms of damage output. Not only because the picture painted by the argument made there is misleading, but because he has three pretty solid sources of damage in his kit. Whereas on average Inara does like half the damage Barik does.


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    After 3.4 came out I've started realizing a few things wrong with this list, and here's my current revised version as my suspicions about a potential pocket meta are coming more and more into focus:

    Personal 3.4 Tier List.jpg

    I would make individual, paragraph-length comments for most of the shifts, but I'll just keep it brief:

    Most ALL of the shifts: Effects of Corvus' new position in the meta. There's a reason he's banned out now in most comp games. He benefits characters he can either easily use to protect himself or easily pocket, but hurts others in the process. He is the new best support in the game, from all indications. A bit early to say, but yeah. He could be a lower high or even high tier now.

    Also Moji: nerfs didn't go through, also benefits from Corvus.



  • I tried the new Fernando Aegis build and so far it seems to work quite well. The shield can be used as self-heal now. Especially in solo fights against flanks this can be very effective. Tanknando might become more popular after a while also since Khan plays Storm-of-bullets now.
    Grohk heal also feels better now. He can heal a similar amount as other supports (with both ammo cards) and combined with good damage, ult and 40% speed buff he might become a viable main support.

    Wow, you raised Moji FOUR tiers? Didn't she get nerfed?. 😈


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    I tried the new Fernando Aegis build and so far it seems to work quite well. The shield can be used as self-heal now. Especially in solo fights against flanks this can be very effective. Tanknando might become more popular after a while also since Khan plays Storm-of-bullets now.
    Grohk heal also feels better now. He can heal a similar amount as other supports (with both ammo cards) and combined with good damage, ult and 40% speed buff he might become a viable main support.

    Wow, you raised Moji FOUR tiers? Didn't she get nerfed?. 😈

    Tanknando can work from my experience, but it has its issues. It does less damage than other point tanks, and it also seems to not work as well in ranked as it does in casuals. Pretty early to tell, but it doesn't really seem good enough to compete with the main three point tanks in most situations.

    I still don't really see Grohk being good really happening especially with pocket supports being the go-to in Plat/Dia ranked at least my experience. It also doesn't help that this patch is actually a nerf to damage Grohk. But yet again I haven't really experienced the new Grohk buffs and it's pretty early.

    The spray nerfs aren't on Live. AoC people said so. Plus Corvus being meta makes her honestly stronger this patch. Plus my opinion shifted when I actually had to play against her a few times in ranked. Not only is she way more effective than I'd expected, she's even worth banning on her better maps.



  • @Dusklicious said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    Tanknando can work from my experience, but it has its issues. It does less damage than other point tanks, and it also seems to not work as well in ranked as it does in casuals. Pretty early to tell, but it doesn't really seem good enough to compete with the main three point tanks in most situations.

    I see him as off tank. He is not as good as Ash or Raum but better than Ruckus and Khan and Atlas.


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    @Dusklicious said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    Tanknando can work from my experience, but it has its issues. It does less damage than other point tanks, and it also seems to not work as well in ranked as it does in casuals. Pretty early to tell, but it doesn't really seem good enough to compete with the main three point tanks in most situations.

    I see him as off tank. He is not as good as Ash or Raum but better than Ruckus and Khan and Atlas.

    Atlas is kind of a tie I'd say, but definitely better than Ruckus/Khan/Torvald. Atlas now is actually quite viable on maps like Splitstone Quarry.



  • @Dusklicious I haven't seen an Atlas since, I dunno, 20-30 matches. Can't even remember a good Atlas. So that's hard to judge for me.


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    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    @Dusklicious I haven't seen an Atlas since, I dunno, 20-30 matches. Can't even remember a good Atlas. So that's hard to judge for me.

    I've played Atlas a few times during the new patch. Feels better, though in a few of them I've had to solo tank... Which Atlas definitely cannot do.



  • @Dusklicious said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    I've played Atlas a few times during the new patch. Feels better, though in a few of them I've had to solo tank... Which Atlas definitely cannot do.

    What is in my opinion a big advantage for an off-tank to be able to solo if no other tank is picked (or a Ruckus) or the main tank dies or trolls. The fact that if you would have picked Nando instead of Atlas, you'd have done better in this matches, means that Nando is a higher tier than Atlas, if he is not much better as an off tank to compensate for being situational.


  • PC

    After a little while longer playing the patch, here's a revision of my last list:

    Personal 3.4 Tier List.jpg

    Notations-

    Maeve down to Lower High- She's not as strong as Moji or Term are at the moment. She is a really strong character not going to lie, but Terminus can protect a Corvus and keep a pocket comp running quite well on his own solo and Moji, well, what was supposed to be a nerf was actually a buff in the end.

    Io up to Lower High- Io's still really strong, no doubt about it. She's STILL banned in comp, and I still perfectly understand why. Her nerfs weren't only not enough, they barely did anything noticeable in my opinion.

    Andro down to Upper Mid- Andro isn't really thriving right now in my experience. He's a strong character, but there's a lot of ways to deal with him with the current meta characters. Of the top 8 characters, half of them have a good matchup into Andro. Plus he doesn't benefit as much from Pocket meta as does Talus or Koga.

    Koga up to Upper Mid- Why do people think that Koga isn't very good? He is, particularly in a meta like this. Frankly he'd be as high as Andro if I saw more results than I have, but those results are really making Koga look much stronger than his general perception. He also benefits as much as Talus does from Corvus and Jenos pockets...

    Tiberius down spots- Tiberius just doesn't work well with pocket meta. He's still a potentially strong damage, he just isn't very cooperative with the current meta.

    Seris up spots- Frankly, Seris is potentially really strong. She's been consistently underrated, because everybody wants to talk about main supports. She's not a main support, but what she IS, she's a pretty strong off-support with sustain rivaling some frontlines.

    Tyra down spots- Tyra looked pretty promising in theory, but in practice Tyra is just outclassed by Vik and Vivian, and also can't even utilize pockets as well as either of them or other choices (some of which counter her).

    Fernando up to Median Mid- Fernando actually seems a bit better than expected. I've been getting results in games with him recently using shield builds where I got way more damage than I'd expect. Sometimes I've been able to get as much as 120k shields and 85k damage in a 12-ish minute game. He still needs touching up in some places, but he's actually looking like an option now.

    Atlas up spots- Atlas is honestly also looking like a pretty good option on his better maps, as I would have expected. He still needs a little boost, but he can actually do surprisingly well on maps like Fish Market and Stone Keep.

    Sha Lin down spots- Sha did get buffed, but in the end he's actually worse than before. Not only does he not work well with pocket meta, but he also just cannot apply Caut as consistently as other damage champions. He also can struggle against Koga who's been going up recently.

    Khan up to Lower Mid- Ehh, he's viable, I'll say that. He just has to be played the right way and his team has to work with him. But, he's still highly situational and requires coordination that he didn't used to since he got so heavily nerfed.

    Torvald down to Low Tier- He's simply outclassed in this meta by Corvus and Jenos. But of course he's also just a bad character who has no sustain, no mobility, no damage, and even what he has to compensate is easily outclassed by characters with at least one of those three things.



  • Wow. Moji made it in two weeks from trash (upper low) to super star (high tier). 😉


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    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    Wow. Moji made it in two weeks from trash (upper low) to super star (high tier). 😉

    Actually she went from top tier to low tier all the way back up to high tier. I thought her nerfs were actually buffs, and now I think they would be nerfs if they were fully implemented, but the important nerf didn't even make it, plus this meta's quite favorable for Moji. Give her a Corvus pocket on Jag and she will tear through a backline pretty easily. That also applies to several other maps. Brightmarsh and Ice Mines probably most notably.



  • It's funny how Torv is hated by everyone. Andrew Chicken is also like: worst champ ever. His winrate is 51%-57% from gold to Diamond what is at least average compared with tanks like Khan who has 48%-49%. The point is that Torv is a support and not a tank and compared with other supports his sustain is excellent. He got 3+2K HP plus 2K recharge, that's 7K compared to the 2K HP of other supports. Jumping on a Torv with bounce house Buck might not work. No Kinessa can one-shot him. Since Torv is always an off-support the double support meta suits him.

    It's hard to compare with Corvus or Jenos as off-supports. Two healer attacked by two flanks will most likely be massacred while a Healer+Torvald combo might survive.


  • PC

    After another week:

    Personal 3.4 Tier List.jpg

    Corvus up spots- Pocketing a Vivian/Andro/Viktor/Talus is a broken strategy when you give them 25% lifesteal and 12% movement speed for free... The pocket meta is absolutely ridiculous. There's a reason why you'll see him and Jenos banned in a lot of comp games, and most of the problem isn't Jenos.

    Androxus up to Lower High- I was definitely wrong in thinking "well Andro wouldn't synergize with pocket quite as well as a Talus would, so ehh." Andro is actually stronger now because if you have an Andro that hits all their shots, you'll have a rather consistent 1200 DPS that gets healed for 300 per second from the lifesteal alone... Also upping Andro's survivability ensures he won't have to rely on his cooldowns to get in and out.

    Maeve down spots- She simply does not synergize with Corvus in quite the way Andro or Talus do. That's really all it is. She can get plenty out of a Corvus pocket potentially, but it doesn't seem to be as effective as having an Andro or a Talus. Nonetheless, Maeve is still definitely a top 3 flank at the moment.

    Viktor up spots- It seems like if you get a pocket with Viktor it's even better than I initially expected it to be. I did think it would sort of negate his lifesteal nerf, but I didn't expect this patch to be actually plenty better for Viktor... He's really good for baiting people out (even better at it with a Corvus mark on him), or of course dealing a ton of damage (even better at it when marked).

    Inara up spots- I still think Inara is overrated by the people who decide that she's worth banning in competitive. But I have seen a little bit of value in her sustainability that I didn't really acknowledge before. She still lacks mobility, is easily caught out, and suffers from having one of the few abilities in the game that can be an active hindrance to her team if used wrong. She also has a very low skill ceiling, so I can't really say she's really any better than Barik is.

    Makoa down spots- I think I overhyped him a little bit. After PTS he definitely SEEMED like he'd be a really solid off-tank. But since, ehh, he's GOOD, but not nearly as good as Ash in the same role. Ash is a ways from being broken, sure, but are off-tanks really successful in the meta right now? Not really.

    Moji?- I now have a ? mark tier on this tier list because I have no idea where to put Moji. None at all. On the one hand, she actually seems the slightest bit stronger with her burst as they forgot the range nerf, and she also theoretically would wreck on her better maps with a Corvus pocket. On the other hand, she seems to not actually be doing very well at all in my experience, and maybe that's because people play her on whatever map to test out the "nerfs" instead of her good maps, I don't know. It's odd. Or did Moji mains moved to a different character...?



  • Zhin is a bit low I think. He is permaban lately at ranked. I checked his stats, he is the most played flank on Diamond together with Andro and their winrate is also the same. I started playing him myself and he feels really solid.


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    Zhin is a bit low I think. He is permaban lately at ranked. I checked his stats, he is the most played flank on Diamond together with Andro and their winrate is also the same. I started playing him myself and he feels really solid.

    I have never seen Zhin banned once in ranked and I honestly don't see him played nearly as much as Andro. See Andro banned one in every 4 games or so. I pretty much see Corvus and Jenos permabanned at my rank, and see a good few Inara/Term or Sniper bans depending on map.



  • @Dusklicious said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    Makoa down spots- I think I overhyped him a little bit.

    You really did lol. He only got a bit off falloff buff, better CD card, and his talent went from useless to useless on all except 4 times in a match. #BringBackSpin2WinKoa

    I think he needs Nando treatment - 400 dmg on spin, 20% ult charge reduction. Also would suggest 50 more dmg on hook so he can 2tap 2200 hp targets with hook talent.

    Moji?- she actually seems the slightest bit stronger with her burst

    What in the world are you talking about? Her burst got weaker not stronger lol. Am I missing something?

    She had like 6 different nerfs to her best parts of her kit and 1 slight buff. It was to be expected she wont be as powerful anymore.


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