Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    Wow. Moji made it in two weeks from trash (upper low) to super star (high tier). 😉

    Actually she went from top tier to low tier all the way back up to high tier. I thought her nerfs were actually buffs, and now I think they would be nerfs if they were fully implemented, but the important nerf didn't even make it, plus this meta's quite favorable for Moji. Give her a Corvus pocket on Jag and she will tear through a backline pretty easily. That also applies to several other maps. Brightmarsh and Ice Mines probably most notably.



  • It's funny how Torv is hated by everyone. Andrew Chicken is also like: worst champ ever. His winrate is 51%-57% from gold to Diamond what is at least average compared with tanks like Khan who has 48%-49%. The point is that Torv is a support and not a tank and compared with other supports his sustain is excellent. He got 3+2K HP plus 2K recharge, that's 7K compared to the 2K HP of other supports. Jumping on a Torv with bounce house Buck might not work. No Kinessa can one-shot him. Since Torv is always an off-support the double support meta suits him.

    It's hard to compare with Corvus or Jenos as off-supports. Two healer attacked by two flanks will most likely be massacred while a Healer+Torvald combo might survive.


  • PC

    After another week:

    Personal 3.4 Tier List.jpg

    Corvus up spots- Pocketing a Vivian/Andro/Viktor/Talus is a broken strategy when you give them 25% lifesteal and 12% movement speed for free... The pocket meta is absolutely ridiculous. There's a reason why you'll see him and Jenos banned in a lot of comp games, and most of the problem isn't Jenos.

    Androxus up to Lower High- I was definitely wrong in thinking "well Andro wouldn't synergize with pocket quite as well as a Talus would, so ehh." Andro is actually stronger now because if you have an Andro that hits all their shots, you'll have a rather consistent 1200 DPS that gets healed for 300 per second from the lifesteal alone... Also upping Andro's survivability ensures he won't have to rely on his cooldowns to get in and out.

    Maeve down spots- She simply does not synergize with Corvus in quite the way Andro or Talus do. That's really all it is. She can get plenty out of a Corvus pocket potentially, but it doesn't seem to be as effective as having an Andro or a Talus. Nonetheless, Maeve is still definitely a top 3 flank at the moment.

    Viktor up spots- It seems like if you get a pocket with Viktor it's even better than I initially expected it to be. I did think it would sort of negate his lifesteal nerf, but I didn't expect this patch to be actually plenty better for Viktor... He's really good for baiting people out (even better at it with a Corvus mark on him), or of course dealing a ton of damage (even better at it when marked).

    Inara up spots- I still think Inara is overrated by the people who decide that she's worth banning in competitive. But I have seen a little bit of value in her sustainability that I didn't really acknowledge before. She still lacks mobility, is easily caught out, and suffers from having one of the few abilities in the game that can be an active hindrance to her team if used wrong. She also has a very low skill ceiling, so I can't really say she's really any better than Barik is.

    Makoa down spots- I think I overhyped him a little bit. After PTS he definitely SEEMED like he'd be a really solid off-tank. But since, ehh, he's GOOD, but not nearly as good as Ash in the same role. Ash is a ways from being broken, sure, but are off-tanks really successful in the meta right now? Not really.

    Moji?- I now have a ? mark tier on this tier list because I have no idea where to put Moji. None at all. On the one hand, she actually seems the slightest bit stronger with her burst as they forgot the range nerf, and she also theoretically would wreck on her better maps with a Corvus pocket. On the other hand, she seems to not actually be doing very well at all in my experience, and maybe that's because people play her on whatever map to test out the "nerfs" instead of her good maps, I don't know. It's odd. Or did Moji mains moved to a different character...?



  • Zhin is a bit low I think. He is permaban lately at ranked. I checked his stats, he is the most played flank on Diamond together with Andro and their winrate is also the same. I started playing him myself and he feels really solid.


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    Zhin is a bit low I think. He is permaban lately at ranked. I checked his stats, he is the most played flank on Diamond together with Andro and their winrate is also the same. I started playing him myself and he feels really solid.

    I have never seen Zhin banned once in ranked and I honestly don't see him played nearly as much as Andro. See Andro banned one in every 4 games or so. I pretty much see Corvus and Jenos permabanned at my rank, and see a good few Inara/Term or Sniper bans depending on map.



  • @Dusklicious said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    Makoa down spots- I think I overhyped him a little bit.

    You really did lol. He only got a bit off falloff buff, better CD card, and his talent went from useless to useless on all except 4 times in a match. #BringBackSpin2WinKoa

    I think he needs Nando treatment - 400 dmg on spin, 20% ult charge reduction. Also would suggest 50 more dmg on hook so he can 2tap 2200 hp targets with hook talent.

    Moji?- she actually seems the slightest bit stronger with her burst

    What in the world are you talking about? Her burst got weaker not stronger lol. Am I missing something?

    She had like 6 different nerfs to her best parts of her kit and 1 slight buff. It was to be expected she wont be as powerful anymore.


  • PC

    @TTraw said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    @Dusklicious said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    Makoa down spots- I think I overhyped him a little bit.

    You really did lol. He got a bit off falloff buff, better CD card, and his talent went from useless to useless on all except 4 times in a match. #BringBackSpin2WinKoa

    I think he needs Nando treatment - 400 dmg on spin, 20% ult charge reduction. Also would suggest 50 more dmg on hook so he can 2tap 2200 hp targets with hook talent.

    You could say the exact same thing about Zhin guillotine when it was broken, but of course that's kind of ridiculous. Point would be if you actually know what you're doing it has a pretty significant impact on those four times it becomes useful.

    Moji?- she actually seems the slightest bit stronger with her burst

    What in the world are you talking about? Her burst got weaker not stronger lol. Am I missing something?

    She had like 6 different nerfs to her best parts of her kit and 1 slight buff. It was to be expected she wont be as powerful anymore.

    And the one that actually matters didn't make it into the game. The range of the spit is exactly the same as last patch, heard it from JayFlare first and then tested it in shooting range and indeed it still has a 60 unit range.



  • @Dusklicious said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    You could say the exact same thing about Zhin guillotine when it was broken, but of course that's kind of ridiculous. Point would be if you actually know what you're doing it has a pretty significant impact on those four times it becomes useful.

    The catch is Zhin's ult is charging very fast and guaranteed doing something at that time, Makoa's ult charges long and got powercreeped into oblivion. Remember when it used to be called best in the game? Now I dont see it doing anything

    And the one that actually matters didn't make it into the game. The range of the spit is exactly the same as last patch, heard it from JayFlare first and then tested it in shooting range and indeed it still has a 60 unit range.

    Okay then. 5 significant nerfs and 1 slight buff. You still didnt explain why you say her burst is better than before when it clearly is worse.



  • Also, I think Atlas and Sha should go 1 up.



  • @Dusklicious said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    I have never seen Zhin banned once in ranked

    Couldn't play him for 5 games now cause always banned or picked. Judged by the official stats Zhin is the most banned flank with 26% banrate and 53% pickrate.


  • PC

    I'll just leave this here:

    3.4 Tier List Letters.jpg

    I intend to make a YT video specifically more in-depth on tanks, because I'll admit that role is more of my domain than other roles are. Also there's a few changes I would make to a couple of placements anyways like slightly lowering Tyra.



  • Why is Makoa so high? Most people don’t think he’s that great. I think it’s very interesting that you put, like, five tanks together in the same tier and I’d like to know all about that, especially not putting Inara above them.

    Usually people’s outlook on the frontline is pretty grim.


  • PC

    @JCrocodile said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    Why is Makoa so high? Most people don’t think he’s that great. I think it’s very interesting that you put, like, five tanks together in the same tier and I’d like to know all about that, especially not putting Inara above them.

    Usually people’s outlook on the frontline is pretty grim.

    Did you look at the post right above yours? I'm assuming not. I made the other list a couple of months ago when this patch was still new and the meta was still forming.



  • @Dusklicious I mistook the OP of that updated tier list with the Torvald icon posted above tha, why the change in tier list formatting btw?

    Anyway, I noticed you’re doing a YouTube vid on the tanks, is it ready or are you still working on it?


  • PC

    @JCrocodile said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    @Dusklicious I mistook the OP of that updated tier list with the Torvald icon posted above tha, why the change in tier list formatting btw?

    Anyway, I noticed you’re doing a YouTube vid on the tanks, is it ready or are you still working on it?

    I just decided to do that version on Guru for some reason I guess, I don't know. 🤷

    It's still in the works at this point. Trying to adjust for certain differences. Like Makoa not turning out to be any good like I initially thought and hoped and Ruckus actually being better than I thought, and of course Inara being the best tank in the game over Terminus now. Along with Barik being negatively affected by Pocket Meta.



  • @Dusklicious
    What is pocket meta? I kinda just understand that a bunch of hitscan champs are really good and you wanna run two supports. Is the pocket part the Jenos/Corvus marks?

    Speaking of duo support meta, running an off-tank would be off-meta right? There’s 5 slots and you wanna have 2 support, flank, damage, and a main frontline right? That’s how I’ve understood team composition in this meta so I’m always confused why Ash and Raum are often ranked highly amongst players but the community also says you should only play Inara, Terminus, or in a friendlier meta, Barik. Could you tell me about that?


  • PC

    @JCrocodile said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    @Dusklicious
    What is pocket meta? I kinda just understand that a bunch of hitscan champs are really good and you wanna run two supports. Is the pocket part the Jenos/Corvus marks?

    Speaking of duo support meta, running an off-tank would be off-meta right? There’s 5 slots and you wanna have 2 support, flank, damage, and a main frontline right? That’s how I’ve understood team composition in this meta so I’m always confused why Ash and Raum are often ranked highly amongst players but the community also says you should only play Inara, Terminus, or in a friendlier meta, Barik. Could you tell me about that?

    Yep. Also Io fits into this meta as well as she can pocket somebody with her right click and give them DR with it while leaving Luna on point.

    I think right now the game's in a meta where both double tank and double healer are acceptable choices. With double healer of course, the problem is that only two maybe three tanks can solo being Inara/Term/maybe Nando. So pretty much every other tank isn't really worth using with the comp. However, I think double tank is still more common in competitive and ranked play which is why tanks like Ash/Raum (as well as Ruckus and Atlas at high level) are still good.

    Nonetheless, this meta is pretty much defined by just how broken Corvus' marks are and how good certain hitscans are. 25% free lifesteal, 12% free movement speed, and the equivalent to a free heal every 4s or so with about the value of a third of a Furia heal on TWO people at ONCE. Barik's specific problem with this meta that even I as somebody who mains him will acknowledge is that he can't really deal with most of the DPSes who benefit most. Viktor and Vivian in particular can give Barik a pretty hard time... Of course there's another factor at play why most comp players actually think Barik is bad right now, being that he hasn't been properly rediscovered yet.



  • @Dusklicious
    I also main Barik, he has such a great combination of offense and defense in his range. Of course, the meta dps don’t play in that range. Are we supposed to use his talent that buffs his shield? I heard Barik’s been through the grinder, and it seems like right now everyone runs Architectonics.

    What’s your take on the Fernando main tank debate? Personally, I’m divided but I’d like to make him work for the sake of variety.



  • @JCrocodile

    Fernando is only as good as whatever force backs him up in a push whereas dwarf is ideal at setting up cover over a wider area.

    Dwarf holds fortress.
    Fern is point man / guardian.

    Fern is better suited to multi foe close quarters combat (CQC), with the primary fire foe piercing ability to damage multiple targets at once as well as stack punish and bruise foes with fireball.

    If the player is good at going toe to toe with many foes and able to mitigate damage to thyself and allies with wisdom, Fernando can work in most games when that pinch of direct firepower and sustained pressure are needed. Fern has solid personal endurance with his mobility and shield synergy as the ult is handy at eating abilities that are designed to end you.

    The players use of controllable shield to prevent damage is key to understanding what one can achieve with a shield. Compared to bariks shield which is better for team firepower and duelling foes. Ferns shield is "in your face, preventing you from shooting" and works when rushing a foe as a team.

    Best Fernando will use a shield in a firefight as an asset to waste a foes time and position, not just personal or ally defence.
    Just because you are not attacking does not mean you cannot hinder the offensive ability of the enemy.

    That all said...
    I am not exactly thrilled with Fernando's performance, and I am not saying he is the strongest, but for firepower, protection and mobility, Fern and Barik hold the line well enough.

    However my gripes with Fern are small, mainly due to the damage/healing indifference of other champions in contrast to his low dps.
    I would like to see his fireball apply a store weapon item effects as he has pretty poor utility damage vs barriers, deployables and such, what is the point of a low damage ranged attack if the second it lands its mitigated by enough life rip...

    My other issue is that I am not truly satisfied by his recovery design requiring a support to stay fed when his ambient recovery could be better...


  • PC

    @JCrocodile said in Tank Main's Speculative 3.4 Tier List.:

    @Dusklicious
    Are we supposed to use his talent that buffs his shield?

    I heard Barik’s been through the grinder.

    It seems like right now everyone runs Architectonics.

    What’s your take on the Fernando main tank debate? Personally, I’m divided but I’d like to make him work for the sake of variety.

    It's viable now and not a complete joke anymore, but it still has issues with the shield cards being weak. Foundation is still almost completely useless, Bunker has too low of scaling, and Palisade has too low of scaling... I think that to be actually good at least Bunker and Palisade will need scaling buffs.

    I'd say right now he's not in his strongest state but he's not necessarily bad I think at least. At the moment he just doesn't sustain as well as Term/Inara point and doesn't have the same bullying potential Ash/Raum have off. I still think however he's middle of the pack when it comes to FL characters because he can capably play both roles, though granted I've played over 1600 Barik matches and have a 58% WR and a KDA of almost 3 (Guru way of counting) with him. He has some of the best damage output in the entire class and his mobility is still really solid. However burst sustain is and always has been an issue with him, though somehow now it's supposed to be such a major issue. I've probably played around 500-600 games with him this season and don't notice all that much of a difference aside from Double Time not being absolutely obscenely broken, like it was the patch after it got reworked.

    I always run Architectonics, but I even ran Archi in Season 2 when Tinkerin was meta (still would run Tinkerin then but mainly ran Archi). Right now it's probably his best talent of the three options he has. But you still have to run the right cards and still utilize the character's strengths. Which a lot of people seem to do neither. I have never once seen anyone run the exactly right card setup and I rarely ever see anyone playing the character in a way that doesn't look like they're account level 25 and playing their first tank.

    My take on Nando's current state is that he's becoming a shield-oriented, slightly more offensive Inara. He has a lot of sustain but lacks mobility and damage, with the latter being among the worst in the class. I don't particularly like the direction they took, but I mean if they wanted Nando to be viable, mission accomplished. He is viable right now, just not particularly good. His strengths are outdone by Inara and Term, and his weaknesses are palpable enough to keep him from being much better. And unlike Atlas and especially Ruckus he doesn't improve based on skill level. Atlas is the fourth best tank right now if you can make him work, and some comp players say Ruckus is the best OT even over Ash (which in my mind opens up their hypocrisy when it comes to Barik "not having enough sustain"). But Nando in his current state doesn't scale with skill level very well at all, and unlike Inara who's just easy to make sustain until the end of time, it's an issue that matters. Nando just has to get Khan grabbed, Shoulder Bashed, Raum ulted and he's kind of screwed. That's another issue with Nando. He's countered by half of the viable OTs. Even if the OTs shouldn't usually be focusing on point tanks like Nando, if they can get a hold of him, half of the ones that are viable can just bully him with few issues. But his sustain is not too far from being as good as Term's and that keeps him working.


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