Why the Caut Buff May Create More Problems than it Solves


  • PC

    I've already pointed this out a few times in other threads, but yes I am very very worried this particular Caut buff may actually change the meta, for the worse. It may cause a Pocket Meta.

    Let me illustrate. 50 credits cheaper doesn't sound like much right? Well, it adds up. Rank 3 Caut is now cheap enough to buy with Haven 1 at the same price as Rank 3 Caut pre-update. This means that your Viktor/Vivian/Moji/Talus/even Tyra can buy Caut faster. These are all characters with the ability to consistently apply it on an enemy.

    Now, what do all of these characters have in common? High damage output? Hitscan? If you guessed synergy with pocket supports, you're correct. Now that Cauterize is more readily accessible to these characters to the point that not only will they max it before mid-game, in my experience, they max it sometimes as early as 5 minutes in. Meaning 75% healing reduction, CONSTANTLY applied, for perhaps 2/3 of the match.

    How do Corvus and Jenos (the pocket supports) fit in this? Well, they allow these characters to live for longer and do more damage. The former part is perhaps the bigger problem because that means not only they can stay in the fight for longer, but as a consequence, the other team will be cauted for longer. And more damage, well, that's kind of obvious how that fits.

    Okay, but that's a thing that already exists. Yes, it is. But, it will be more prevalent, because of the consequences of cheaper Caut. Not only because more burst heal supports like Grover and Furia were indirectly (with Grover there's another nerf to add, but this is about Caut not on-hit and resilience) nerfed by this patch, but because of those very nerfs, the pockets of Corvus and Jenos will have even more power to deal with sustain, and wipe the floor with entire teams.

    Now I've already seen evidence for this possibility. Pro players banning out Jenos and Corvus. Talus first picks in competitive... Minimal at this point I know, but it's also really early into the patch cycle. It came out yesterday.

    Now that this is a feedback thread, some suggestions to fix this potential problem:

    • REWORK LUMINARY. The talent is the only reason why Jenos is viable, yes, so buff his actual heals to counteract this (the amount, NOT the cooldown...). Maybe make this an actual healing talent like the old Celestial Touch.
    • Nerf Grand Design. I believe they already are planning on it, but free 25% lifesteal is overpowered. I acknowledge this as a Corvus player myself. This card is overtuned, definitely. Nerf it maybe from 5% per rank to 3% per rank. 15% lifesteal isn't NEARLY as much of a potential problem.
    • Put Moji's spray nerfs into the game. Moji would be little threat with them in. Should happen mid-patch, though really I hope far sooner. The spray nerfs were really what could have removed Moji from being a potential threat. But they aren't in the game. JayFlare and several other members of the AoC brought this to Evil Mojo's (and in the process in Jay's case my) attention.
    • Nerf Talus' fire rate back down to what it was before. There was absolutely no good reason to buff it. I have no idea what they were even thinking when they did that...
    • Nerf Vivian in a way that doesn't do next to nothing. They plan on it, but it really can't wait if the Pocket Meta happens.
    • Viktor could debateably use a nerf if this meta comes to fruition, but to what I don't know.


  • @Dusklicious

    I have mixed hate about grand design.
    Yes I hate what it is, but it has some design potential.

    Here's some thoughts.
    I can see potential behind the idea of grand design granting healing to the supprt for damage done by allies, if it was done right...
    But not as a life rip boon to allies, not as a kit card, and not at that value...
    Its too much on top of the ability imo...
    It could just be base kit with a lower limit, therefore the multi target talent always provides this bonus without needing the cards as part of the talent.

    As a diclaimer, I dislike the constant design of self heal cards tied to heal abilites on supports. If you have a sustained heal boon, it may as well support yourself somehow in base kit as well. An ally may not cover you as you do not control them, but at least your recovery could be tied to their performance, but that requres an ally to perform.

    Instead of luminary, a base self healing off the damage an ally is dealing while under influance of boons, could be a change... but high values and multiple targets, various dps, make too many variants, it will be a headfuck to understand the potential self healing provided in order to find a perfect value for it. Its an iffy idea...

    But I do not trust the devs with any new design these days.



  • That was a long dispute on the old board what supports are better against cauterize, burst healer or consistent healer. A burst healer can outwait cauterize and therefor heal 100% vs cauterize. On the other hand a heal-over-time support as Jenos is difficult to neutralize by caut since he heals all the time more than champion.

    The main question is, if a team can reach caut 3 before the match is over. If yes, double support is less attractive since the chance is good that after 3:0 the double support team still will lose. A day or two after patch is much too early to judge how it will influence the meta.


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