First of all I think what we can agree about Ying's meta style is balanced overall. I just suggest to balance her inbuilt kit for rise much more loadout combinations into the meta, viable range.
Two of her heal buffer cards are just OP. Carry On and Spring Bloom are obligatory for every decks. I suggest to nerf both by 40%.
On the other hand Shatter is trash. It only has value with Life Exchange, in the case when this skill is totaly reworked. I suggest to increase its damage to 700 and extend the travel deadline by 0.5s. So maybe it will worth to sacrifice their healing for the extra damage possibly.
The Spring Bloom nerf would kill the basicly weakest talent - Resonance -, but the Shatter buff could help it out perfectly and also make this skil viable with Focusing Lens. Tricky illusion combos - e.g. what Red Rover explained -, would finally have the value for perform them sucessfully. And last, but not least the extended travel time could help out her weakest card, Pursuit. (and maybe it could resurrect the old Clone army / illusion re-shatter style with the lower Brittle card level you need with)
For the compensation for the heal card nerfs I would put the card Rewind lvl1 into her base kit, coz it's super effective on lvl1 and obligatory for most of her high tier combos. The more levels have no noticable effect to her performance, so I suggest to rework this card: Decrease the cast time of Dimension Link by 10%/lvl. It would make Dimension Link finally worth to build on, and could help out her flanker side for even more tricky moves. Just as she asks: "Did I trick you ;)"
For summary I see the opportunity in her kit for make her a high skill based, dinamical champion -just like Androxus -, while not destroying her healing aspect - if you wanna focus on it -, but her most important parts for beeing tricky - Shatter and Dimension Link - are stucked on an unrewarding level. With the combination of quick teleporting, high burst damage, and inbuild illusion leaving-back could open a door in front of her into the high skill - high rewarding playstyle, what is the desired state of all of the champions in the Realm.
jocasela last edited by
First, Ying requires no nerf at all. Nothing about her is OP.
Second Andro skill based dinamical champion ? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Andro is the noobs choice, a easy to play, pew pew champion with OP dps. His left click can deal 2166 damage in a second and right click doesn't require aiming even. And has 1040 dps. If you can track the target with your mouse cursor you will just do fine with Andro.
Third. No i don't think Ying is balanced. "LIFE EXCHANGE" sucks. It is an awful talent. It takes away Ying's only defense. Makes Ying a easy target for noob Andro. Then Ying dies, then tank starts spamming "need healing" while Ying is dead. Then Ying gets pissed off. Oh yeah it also induces toxicity.
Life Exchange needs to be removed. And Shatter should be targetable. If target is enemy illusions explode, heal if friendly. Explode immediately if no target selected. Healing and damaging in an AOE.
And lastly add a new talent which enchants Dimensional Link. This is one of the most difficult escape skill in the game. It deserves a talent. A talent removes the post fire and reduces the cooldown of Dimensional Link.
SNIper-poTAto last edited by
@KicsitCsicska making the rewind rework proc at 10% per level isn't alot. Try acknowledging the fact that her Dimensional link postfire was 80% faster and not 50%+ you are integreting that old effect into a loadout card that takes away 5 points at most. I think it should proc at 12% per level for that reason and this is also considering the 700 dmg u gave to her illusions. Also by nerfing Spring Bloom you are taking away a great amount of her healing output from resonance and i don't think 700 dmg on shatter is enough to compensate that. Make it so that her healing ticks is reduced from 5->1 and make that 1 tick heal 400. That will make it so that players won't lose half of the heal ticks by re-entering cover too early after peeking illusions. Thats enough to compensate spring bloom nerf imo. I also suggest a heal rework which isn't intended to compensate the spring bloom or carry on nerf but an idea of my own. I recommend reducing her illusion healing to 320 and also have it heal for 5% of a targets max hp. This will give resonance or focusing lens(
I don't think Focusing lens deserves to be a healing talent until its range buff gets reverted as it allows her to replace actual dmg dealers and has good synergy with caut while resonance requires an actual dmg dealer or another off support to be most effective) better healing output for tanks when playing in double tank comps without having it heal squishies a bit more than it should. Her dmg talents as main heal cards are weakest when played with double tank comps and thats why I want her clones to have a bit of %HP healing to deal with this problem.
@KicsitCsicska ying is weak on healing if her illusion killed her dmg not even strong ying dont need nerf and buff shes already balance also her heal cant keep up if you got lvl 2 or 3 cautarize
1; I suggested to nerf all of the heals in the game, coz these are OP. Including Ying. She is not balanced, coz we always use Carry On and Spring Bloom, but nearly never use the original Shatter, coz it doesn't worth. It means she isn't already balanced.
2; Heals are the most OP things in the game and you still would make it keep up against max caut... You should know, that heals have to use when the target isn't effected by caut. Heals shouldn't be viable against caut. It's not a reason why don't nerf them.
Her OP cards and best talent are all based around healing, this is what I could solve here.
TTraw last edited by
Imo LE Ying is actually kind of trash. Just a healbot with a decent ult. I would honestly buff her if I had the power to. It reminds me of MR Seris but with weaker escape.
I am aware I am the only one that thinks that tho.
SNIper-poTAto last edited by SNIper-poTAto
@KicsitCsicska Shatter already has uses with resonance and life exchange. Base kit shatter doesn't need to be useful. That will mostly result in reworks and that will overcomplicate her. Guess our opinion of balance is very different. By balance, we are all talking about her viability and that's the most important thing we care for. You care about LITERALLY EVERYTHING. That's not really a bad thing but...ehhh. Carry on is so strong bcuz her base duration on her illusions is lacking. Resonance players only use it at lvl 1 and more than lvl 2 is overkill/waste of points. Even with Focusing Lens 2 is enough while 3 is somewhat overkill depending on map. Buff her base duration on illusions by 1s(make it 2s if u want to make carry on useless) and nerf the card by only 0.2s per level and bam...Resonance/Focusing Lens users don't need carry on but this card is not useless either. Try to look at things from multiple perspectives. These cards don't make ying op. Ying is not even top 5 in most tierlists. The thing with Spring bloom is that it solves one of ying's only issues and ying doesn't have many issues that can be solved by loadout cards. The only way you can make her other cards viable is by giving her more issues that can be solved with loadout cards and that can only be done by nerfing/reworking her. Even if this rework turns out to be a buff... none of us want that(except maybe you).
@SNIper-poTAto I suggested to nerf heal healing isn't coz i think she is better than the other healers, but I suggested to nerf all of the healers' heal. (Ally heals are OP in this game.) And these are the card what makes her healing output better. I don't want to make it better, so I didn't suggest to put Carry On into her base kit.
Carry on is still realy good with Focusing Lens. Illusions still heal, just as with Life Exchange.
Shatter could be an intresting skill to be a tricky killer, but it's damage isn't enaugh for compensate healing sacrifice.
Spring Bloom is also OP whatever it solves. Cards are for make u stronger in certain situation. these aren't only for counter. t is about the numbers. If you buff any card it will be better, if you reduce scaling it will be worse. No matter it's a counter or not. Her other cards doesn't help as much as Carry On and Spring Bloom, that's all.
Maybe Rewind needs rather 15% scaling for making her a tricky teleporter illusionist again.
@KicsitCsicska seriously her heal is not even that strong just using lvl 2 cautarize can instantly decrease it easily hahahaha
Ying is a pure healer type she lack dmg than other support that act like dmg and support but ying is pure support
Ghrok can beat ying plain easy even its on 1v1 hahaha
Also ever heard of wrecker it will took about a few shot to destroy her illusion lol even drogoz lvl 2 wrecker took 1 or 2 shot a illusions hahaha
You complaining on ying the only well balance support on the game hahaha haw embarrassing
@roiwtto999 Why do you write "hahahaha" all the time? You think you know something better? Wrecker isn't even effects to illusions. Only bulldozer. Should I write hahahaha?
Ying, the only supporter how can be used on ranked only as heal bot is balanced? Should I write hahaha again?
While Ying had super good tricks old times when maybe you didn't even played this game. When all of the damage outputs was lower, so her resonance made an inpact. Ask Valkure for more details. She wrote more about this game than we all on the old forum. And the trickiest playstyle is dead for years. I just suggested to resurrect it, but new ppl don't even remember how good it was and can imagine Ying only as a heal bot. It is sad.
@KicsitCsicska ooops bulldozer i keep buying wrecker in matches lol.....just pick bulldozer and cautarize ying illusion rekt hard just picking those
I main ying shes not op on heals even i pick my 3rd best support ghrok he can kill ying in 1v1 and ghrok is a cross hybrid dmg and support while ying is a full support
KicsitCsicska last edited by KicsitCsicska
Just as I wrote, u didn't even read it.
while ying is a full support
And the trickiest playstyle is dead for years. I just suggested to resurrect it, but new ppl don't even remember how good it was and can imagine Ying only as a heal bot. It is sad.
My Ying is lvl50+, I see it matters for you more than should be. I've been playing as her for three years. She could be more than a heal bot again, but u cant even imagine how, and can't see out of the box: 'ying is a full support'.
Illusions can be rekt. It's not a problem. These aren't for put in front of the enemies, except when u use Resonance. You cjust have to use illusions with brain and high lvl Spring Bloom, and these work. Every champions have counter, but it doesn't mean they are weak. So writing 'ying illusion rekt hard' doesn't mean she is weak.
Not just Ying has OP heals, but every supporters. Imagine playing a team without supporter, or playing against a team what has supporter without buying caut.
Lmao the game isnt about 1v1s. He keeps saying ghrok beats her , but ghrok is the weakest support in the game XD.
M3RC3N4RI0 last edited by M3RC3N4RI0
Third. No i don't think Ying is balanced. "LIFE EXCHANGE" sucks. It is an awful talent.
It's awful cause it's an improvised Talent. Bad design. Shatter was not meant to heal with it. But the pro players wailed so long that Ying needs an aimed heal till she got one. Before that she was one of the most popular support champs. Now her only viable Talent is her healbot Talent. Remove "LIFE EXCHANGE" for the old "LIFELIKE" and proceed from there.
@Nico Grohk may have the weakest heal in the game but he is not the weakest support.
Lmao the game isnt about 1v1s. He keeps saying ghrok beats her , but ghrok is the weakest support in the game XD.
to be honest, Pip is weaker.
@Nico ghrok a weak support......pffffft
M3RC3N4RI0 last edited by
@M3RC3N4RI0 damba is strong wym??
@Dusklicious I guess im biased bc i like playing pip XD. Grohk is my least fav support.
Also, i meant heal grohk. Heal pip imo is better than heal grohk.
@Nico ghrok is your least favorite support i rekt player using thunder ball everytime i use that i rekt them good
Sure pip is a good healer but the main problem on him its his potion hitbox its so huge it keep hitting walls even by an inch away it even randomly heal when your about to toss it for no reason