Seris card/talents suggestions



  • @KicsitCsicska I think soul forge needs a nerf



  • @KicsitCsicska

    @KicsitCsicska said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    You suggested to change many cards in her kit, but didn't touch the most OP trio: Soul Forge, Veil and Dark Whisper. Why? Those balanced cards won't be used until these cards don't nerfed.

    There are 2 reasons why I didn't talk about those cards:

    1. I mentioned I am going to talk about her bad cards only, as you can read from the introduction. Those three you mentioned are not bad, obviously.
    2. I don't think those cards are overpowered. I could argue about Soul Forge, because 62.5% CD reduction is arguably the highest out of the cards. But that alone never really made seris overpowered. Yes you have to put 5 points into it when you go healing. But so you have with other supports (except Damba, cuz he perfect).
      I don't find Dark Whisper to be overpowered at all. In fact, I have loadout without this card, and surprisingly, this is the loadout with the highest "carry" potential out of all I have, assuming Seris can "carry" in the first place. Same with veil. I keep Veil as a 1 pointer as I know when I am going to be ambushed by flanks. 0.225 additional cast reduction is all I need.

    @KicsitCsicska said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    Soul Collector still doesn't need a buff, it has better winrate than Mortal Reach. Mortal Reach is often used, just because it's heal oriented and the OP card Soul Forge buffs Seris' heals too much. If Soul Forge was balanced, Mortal reach wouldn't have superior pickrate.

    I am looking at TheBetterMeta website right now. Mortal Reach has .6% higher winrate than Soul Collector, despite being picked 10 times as much. 'nuff said.

    @KicsitCsicska said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    I think decrease the Agony's charge requirement from 4 to 3 would be enaugh balance changes for the talents, the others aren't needed neither the Restore Soul duration buff.

    Agony has both worse Winrate and Pickrate compared to other 2 by a decent margin. I would rather make sure my teammates don't tilt about lack of healing just because I wanted to pick unreliable stun.

    @KicsitCsicska said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    Anyways I agree with your card buffs, expect Ebon Dynamo and Wickedness. These don't need any change in my opinion. I'm not sure about she needs any "buff ally's speed while healing" card, many other supporters have a same card.

    Surprised about Ebon Dynamo. Care to explain it further? I thought it will be a really decent skill check for Seris and the use of her primary fire.
    As for Wickedness. I remember you mentioning you liked the change, what happened?
    Seris needs base kit/card based utility, and move speed is the most simple and effective one. I wanted to give her team reveal and we know how it ended up.

    @KicsitCsicska said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    I don't think the Convergence needs any buffs. CC cap makes high level resillance useless, I don't like this kind of mechanic in the game. This ult still pulls the enemies into a place, so cc reduction doens't help against it too much. Cc reduction doesn't need any more nerf in the case of this ultimate.

    Convergence is in needs of buffs. It's one of weaker (support wise) ults, because it's so easy to counter with things like shields, resilence, and, most importantly, good positioning. I think CC cap is a good way to go around it, because literally every single other CC ult has this cap, and it would prevent Agony Serises from killing their own ults. The fact of them killing their own teammates is already enough.



  • @TTraw
    Soul Forge doesn't makes her OP, but she would be absolutly useless healer without this OP card. It rises her into the viable category.

    If Soul Forge was balanced, Mortal Reach wouldn't have such higher pick rate the Soul Collector as currently. These's winrate is realy similar and close to 50%, this is why these don't need any change. I have 64% winrate as Seris since Soul Collector has been buffed (stacks: 8->15), I experience its usefulness. I use only Soul Collector and I don't think it's a mistake.
    Mortal Reach has more popularity, because, many players think that the healers ONLY job is healing, they think healers dmg doesn't matter. And they pick it, because they don't want to be permanent harassed: team mates has better stat if the healer heals them more and doesn't steal their kills. They flam if the healer heals them less, but kills the enemies instead of them. (But the healer has better stat if it can deal dmg too.)

    Soul Collector and Agony Seris can heal so much too, becasue the heal power isn't in the Mortal Reach talent but in the Soul Forge card. Heal much more often is useful, but heal for longer time usually not, because the basic 2k healing is eanugh in the most situations. When it's not, because cauterize affected to the ally heal duration increasing is still useless, because this time worth to deal dmg until you don't find an ally without caut effect on it. You also don't need the heal range buff if you go agressively to the front, because you will be close enaugh to heal.
    All in all Mortal Reach isn't better than Soul Collector independently of their pick rate.

    Ebon Dynamo is still useful for the solo dmg Seris players. There are no card in the game what increases your main dmg constatly. Maybe buff it's scaling from {2|2} to {3|3} would make it even better. But it doesn't used, because Spirit Leech is much better to get more ammo, this card needs a nerf too.
    Wickedness: If you can't collect many soul it's basicly a disadvantage, if the card gave less bonus it would be too much.

    Convergence is one of the best supporter ults, it just needs good timing, not waste it always when you got it.



  • @KicsitCsicska said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    @TTraw
    Soul Forge doesn't makes her OP, but she would be absolutly useless healer without this OP card. It rises her into the viable category.

    Imagine healers: LE Ying without maxed Brittle, Furia without Light Forge, Damba without Eerie Presence, Pip without Reload, Ghrok without Gale, Grover without Verdant Expanse and Perennial, and Jenos without.... all of his heal related cards.
    They aren't viable healers without those cards either.

    Arguably the only healer that can do fine without her heal related cards is Io, but even then, I feel difficulties in healing my teammates without those cards.

    Besides, even when playing as DPSeris, I often get some good healing, about half of my main healer, which is pretty in line with every other off-healer build.

    @KicsitCsicska said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    If Soul Forge was balanced, Mortal Reach wouldn't have such higher pick rate the Soul Collector as currently.

    If Soul Forge was nerfed, all you would see is Mortal Reach, as you wouldn't be able to sustain your teammates enough otherwise.

    @KicsitCsicska said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    Ebon Dynamo is still useful for the solo dmg Seris players. There are no card in the game what increases your main dmg constatly. Maybe buff it's scaling from {2|2} to {3|3} would make it even better. But it doesn't used, because Spirit Leech is much better to get more ammo, this card needs a nerf too.

    This I can agree. I have Ebon Dynamo as 1 pointer on my damage seris loadout, and that's the only loadout where I put it. That being said, I might have as well put my hp card, or wickedness card, or self heal card. This is in no way priority for dmg seris. I've lately even were thinking about Spirit Leech for my dpseris. In fact, I think this might end up being the better option even without Soul Forge 5 equipped, as it allows you to always do something impactful.

    And my Ebon Dynamo is even better fit for Dmg seris.

    Lack of dmg increase card is a valid point, however. Evie had a card that gave her bonus dmg after blinking in earlier days, but as it currently stands, this would be the only non talent card in the game that directly increases damage. I might rethink this one. But honestly, it doesn't impact 1v1 potential, unlike evie's, so perhaps its fine. Grohk has direct healing affecting card. Seris might get dmg boosting one. If anyone else complains about it, I will just remove this change.

    @KicsitCsicska said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    Wickedness: If you can't collect many soul it's basicly a disadvantage, if the card gave less bonus it would be too much.

    On the bright side it no longer reduces the effect of Chronos since it boosts CD indirectly, opening more itemisation possibilities for Seris, so I am more than happy with that cardchange, even tho it might end up worse than before in certain situations.

    @KicsitCsicska said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    Convergence is one of the best supporter ults, it just needs good timing, not waste it always when you got it.

    Now this is a surprise to me. You really think Seris ult is that good? Compared to most characters, it's rather good. Compared to other supports however....
    Here's my list of sup ults from best to worst.

    1. Pip
    2. Furia
    3. Ying
    4. Damba
    5. Grover
    6. Grohk
    7. Seris
    8. Jenos
    9. Io

    So in my view, Seris ult is quite lagging behind other supports. But while Io and Jenos have tremendous amount of amazing utility in their kit that offsets weaker ults, Seris has agony.

    It also seems weird to me that you said you shouldn't throw your ults as soon as possible but play Soul Collector. You can easily gain ultimate in under a minute with SC. I managed to get 5 ults in 1 round like 3 days ago in 1 round that didn't even hit 6 minutes mark. By no means I mean you should press E once you get your ult, but SC seris charges ults so fast you should look for decent value as soon as possible.

    All in all, this ult is a glorified skye bomb. If your positioning is amazing, you're not gonna get hit by it.

    Anyway, this buff barely affects Convergence. It's more of a buff to agony rather than her ult, because noone in their right mind buys resilence just for Convergence alone.

    It's also for the sake of consistency. They butchered Maeve ult to be affected by CC immunity for consistency sake, they should look at Seris ult, too.



  • @TTraw

    I think not just Seris' heal cd buffer card needs nerf but all of these kind of cards need. But Seris' Soul Forge and grover's Verdant Expanse are the best of these kind of cards.

    If Soul Forge was nerfed there would be LESS reason for use Mortal Reach, because this talent based on healing. Less healing means this talent is less effective.

    My dmg Seris loadout contains Soul Forge III and Spirit Leech II, what gives me endless ammo just for 2 loadout points and let me heal so much too 🙂

    Seris ultimate can help her out in a 1v1 situation, but its power is use it with the team. I like it much more than the healing ultimates and also than Damba's CC ultimate, because it grabs to foes and let me shot all of them with the same projectiles (these pierces enemies). To be honest I don't use her ult so often, rather play a match without using ult than waste it and later die bec of it or just miss a good situation. Pip's ult is the best supporter ult, of corse. Ghrok's is realy strong too, bec of the relay hard slow and speed boost combo.

    I tried out Soul Collector again, you can check these matches on paladins.guru or mypaladins. The first was nonsense, bec our drogoz was discovering the map without dealing dmg (yes, I get such teammates...). At least I got top play... The next two matches were fair, and my Soul Collector Seris got cool stats (best kda) and also did best healings.

    I wish that most of your card suggestions will be added, but these won't. I ask for changes like this for a realy long time and they certainly did good steps for balance her (ult buff, Shadow Travel nerf, heal duration decreasing, Sorceress buff, Soul Collector buff), but it seems they find these changes enaugh.



  • @KicsitCsicska said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    @TTraw

    I think not just Seris' heal cd buffer card needs nerf but all of these kind of cards need. But Seris' Soul Forge and grover's Verdant Expanse are the best of these kind of cards.

    Oh I see. I don't think any kind of widespread healing changes are soon to come, so I guess we should settle with realistic changes.

    @KicsitCsicska said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    If Soul Forge was nerfed there would be LESS reason for use Mortal Reach, because this talent based on healing. Less healing means this talent is less effective.

    There's this sweet spot of where your healing should be situated in order to work. Depending on how harsh Soul Forge nerf would be, most players would just pick additional 1333 healing on your target to fill that gap.

    @KicsitCsicska said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    My dmg Seris loadout contains Soul Forge III and Spirit Leech II, what gives me endless ammo just for 2 loadout points and let me heal so much too 🙂

    Funnily enough, I've been running exact card levels in my newest damage seris loadout and it works really well. So even for damage seris ebon dynamo is lacking.

    @KicsitCsicska said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    Seris ultimate can help her out in a 1v1 situation, but its power is use it with the team. I like it much more than the healing ultimates and also than Damba's CC ultimate, because it grabs to foes and let me shot all of them with the same projectiles (these pierces enemies). To be honest I don't use her ult so often, rather play a match without using ult than waste it and later die bec of it or just miss a good situation. Pip's ult is the best supporter ult, of corse. Ghrok's is realy strong too, bec of the relay hard slow and speed boost combo.

    Just because you like it doesn't mean it's great. It's my favourite ult in the game and yet I see its flaws. At least damba's ult pierces shields so its less counterable (by the way, I think it doesn't have resilence cap too, and it should). Even tho those 5 man Seris pulls are walking dopamine, other ults win fights more.

    @KicsitCsicska said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    I tried out Soul Collector again, you can check these matches on paladins.guru or mypaladins. The first was nonsense, bec our drogoz was discovering the map without dealing dmg (yes, I get such teammates...). At least I got top play... The next two matches were fair, and my Soul Collector Seris got cool stats (best kda) and also did best healings.

    I don't think Soul Collector is bad, I think it's fun and by looking at my profile you can see I try to push it everywhere I can. I still think it needs a tiny buff though, a little tiny one.

    @KicsitCsicska said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    I wish that most of your card suggestions will be added, but these won't. I ask for changes like this for a realy long time and they certainly did good steps for balance her (ult buff, Shadow Travel nerf, heal duration decreasing, Sorceress buff, Soul Collector buff), but it seems they find these changes enaugh.

    I am not necessarily familiar with your suggestions, but you've showed me some. And I think the problem devs would face with your suggestions is that: they would be very difficult/time consuming to make. For example your bane idea could be very difficult to synchronize with cooldowns, because cooldowns might be only stored client wise and not server wise. I dunno, just guessig. Similarly with your idea of seris heal channel damaging enemies. Those ideas don't exist in any way or form in current game, and can prove challenging in their Spaghetti code.

    My ideas are on the other side of the spectrum, I tried suggesting something that exists currently in game, as it would be (relatively) fast and easy to do. Number tweaks, things like move speed for allies, even Ebon Dynamo would probably only need copy pastying (I hope, not sure how differently talents work compared to cards but I always assumed they're taking the same space as loadout cards only with static damage). So unless your changes were similar to that, they might be easily ommited.

    That's not saying I am not going to be ignored. I probably will be. However, devs mentioned some big balance changes at end of each season, and we're currently at last split of the season. So part of me hoped that a dev will look one day at this thread and uncounsciously make some balance changes guided by threads like this one. Personally, I would be happy with 3 things: Agony buffs, a card that increases seris projectile speed, and a card that increases duration of her charges.



  • This thread doesnt have too many issues but the main problem i have with these changes is on your suggestions for Sorceress, and Ebon Dynamo. Loadouts are their to define your playstyle. But those 2 cards simply buff the weapon. No champ has a card similar to that so Sorceress should be reworked along with Spirit Leech instead of Ebon Dynamo. Having more base kit ammo is the better card for seris rather than refilling 12 by using an ability. The card often helps my aggro playstyle for example when a player is reloading when i dont have to so i can take advantage. Your change for agony doesnt rlly have a big impact becuz of resilience and you simply compensated the lower requirements for stun by reducing duration when its already hard countered. Even with the 3 soul charge change hitting stuns from distance still wouldnt happen tbh so id rather propose buffing her weapon travel speed but not by a loadout card.



  • Tbh, seris is a champ that can stack and detonate multiple orbs yet has no cards based around that feature other then a talent.

    If there was a mechanic about.... each orb detonated with rend soul reduced the CD of shadow walk or rend soul.

    That would greatly improve the enjoyment of the character and power of getting a good suppression angle on multiple foes.


  • PC

    @TTraw

    2c from a PITA "noob" with around 30 hours Seris play time.

    I like the healing change. I think that more healing in the base kit would help the 2 "other" talents be more accepted in most matches.

    Sorceress - The orb travel speed is probably her weakest issue when dealing with flankers and long range damaging. I think your change is going too far though. Maybe just increase the base speed by 10-15% and forget the card change completely or to something else.

    Ebon Dynamo - I don't think players should be able to adjust their damage output via cards.



  • @DaddyOoker said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    @TTraw
    Sorceress - The orb travel speed is probably her weakest issue when dealing with flankers and long range damaging. I think your change is going too far though. Maybe just increase the base speed by 10-15% and forget the card change completely or to something else.

    Doing the math behind this card adds 30 projectile speed per level (Seris starts at 150). Maxing this card increases it to 300, which is the exact projectile speed Pip's primary has, and half of Cassie's shot. It's really hard to grasp if that amount is really that overpowered since there's no way for me to test that. Fernando's fireball had a card that increased its speed by 15|15%, so maybe it's not that terryfying.

    @DaddyOoker said in Seris card/talents suggestions:

    Ebon Dynamo - I don't think players should be able to adjust their damage output via cards.

    Yeah, I probably am gonna just remove it, since you're the third person that complains about it.

    My problem is that leaving this card unchanged makes it compete with Spirit Leech, and we know who the winner is here. I've been brainstorming a little and I came up with turning the bonus dmg for each target into bonus ult charge for each target. How about that?


  • PC

    @TTraw

    Pip's fire rate is one shot per second. Seris fire rate is every .3s.

    I don't think you can use Fernando's Fireball as an example either when you consider that it has a cooldown between shots - even with the card to reduce it.

    Normalize to the same fire rate and then make the comparison.



  • @DaddyOoker I am actually.... intrigued by the fact you justified it with higher fire rate. Not dps, not hitbox, not damage per orb but firerate and nothing else. Should we nerf all machine guns since they have instant projectile speed and high firerate? It's weird. I could understand any other argument just not this one.

    As I said, it's really difficult to imagine things, and this is not Overwatch where I can adjust projectile speed to visualize the power of this card. But I am sure there's a number where we can balance it, and that's probably between 10 and 20%. I just picked the highest amount.


  • PC

    @TTraw

    Why would I look at parameters that aren't involved in what you are proposing to change?

    Pip has one chance to make the shot in a second. If he misses, he has to wait another second.

    With Seris you have ~3 chances to hit in the same amount of time.

    To me, a speed increase with the smaller time between shots is more significant than raising the speed of a shot that has longer delays between shots.

    You're right, it's tough to determine what's OK without actually putting it in action.


Log in to reply