Over the Moon



  • 'Over the Moon doesn't exist'
    Fisheko
    https://youtu.be/EUwwbPz-rh0?t=15

    It has dmg bonus but doesn't reduce her ttk, because enemies are still 3 shots.
    I suggest to change its damage bonus from 20% for 3s to 35% for 2s for some viable burst damage, what could decrease her ttk. The amount of the dmg bonus wouldn't increase so much, because the duration would be lower.



  • But isn't the goal here to INCREASE ttk instead of the other way around? Over the moon doesn't even have to be a damage buff, it could be a mobility buff for her staff that makes it a resource based thing or something


  • PC

    no matter what you change, wormhole will still be better
    I do like snow globe when there is a maeve for exemple, but it's super situational



  • They should reverse over the moon and wormhole. Give damage buff to the wormhole back. It made sense and it was usefull. But it was nerfed cuz some people were didn't want to admit they were bested by better players. And make over the moon reduce soar cooldown and increase soar speed. Evie players who want more mobility will choose this.


  • PC

    @jocasela said in Over the Moon:

    They should reverse over the moon and wormhole. Give damage buff to the wormhole back. It made sense and it was usefull. But it was nerfed cuz some people were didn't want to admit they were bested by better players. And make over the moon reduce soar cooldown and increase soar speed. Evie players who want more mobility will choose this.

    there are already cards to reduce soar cd and increase speed



  • @TangAce said in Over the Moon:

    @jocasela said in Over the Moon:

    They should reverse over the moon and wormhole. Give damage buff to the wormhole back. It made sense and it was usefull. But it was nerfed cuz some people were didn't want to admit they were bested by better players. And make over the moon reduce soar cooldown and increase soar speed. Evie players who want more mobility will choose this.

    there are already cards to reduce soar cd and increase speed

    No, there is only 1 card that slightly increases the speed but no cooldown reduction. (Killing frost resets the cooldown only when you get kills but we're talking about the old over the moon that reduced the cooldown of soar by 5 s)


  • PC

    @Driggydrug said in Over the Moon:

    @TangAce said in Over the Moon:

    @jocasela said in Over the Moon:

    They should reverse over the moon and wormhole. Give damage buff to the wormhole back. It made sense and it was usefull. But it was nerfed cuz some people were didn't want to admit they were bested by better players. And make over the moon reduce soar cooldown and increase soar speed. Evie players who want more mobility will choose this.

    there are already cards to reduce soar cd and increase speed

    No, there is only 1 card that slightly increases the speed but no cooldown reduction. (Killing frost resets the cooldown only when you get kills but we're talking about the old over the moon that reduced the cooldown of soar by 5 s)

    "slightly" mmmhhhh, it makes such a big difference that I can't play without it...
    and a flat cd reduction is op af on a champ with such mobility, evie is already pretty safe as it is now, with one of the best mobility in the game, no need for more, the card resetting on kill is pretty good, I can't play without it, it's high risk high reward but usually if I don't fail it's just op already

    then you are talking about a card that existed during the hyper mobility era, which doesn't suit the game anymore, I think devs were pretty clear about that, they don't want to go back to hyper mobility

    I agree over the moon is totally useless right now, but what you are suggesting would just turn evie into something so op that I would eventually stop playing paladins
    there are already enough unbalanced champs, evie is one of the most balanced champ imo, she's pretty good but has many counters, and is pretty hard to play as well



  • @TangAce hypermobility has never been in the game, let me make it more clear.
    There was much more mobility in the past but not so much to be considered "HYPER". In fact the only unfair and hypermobile champions pre-OB54 times were evie and bombking.
    But since the other talents and champions were well balanced there was no "MOBILITY META" and no "HYPERMOBILITY ERA".
    It's true, evie's old blink was broken (even if you required godlike aim to hit blinkshots with that huge teleport range and so slow projectiles) and old accelerant was OP too, but all the other talents were far from being unbalanced, some of them were even throwpicks.
    The old OTM we were talking about was shit compared to reprive and wormhole.
    Meave triple jump was fun but pretty much a trollpick , same thing for pip double jump.
    Wyrm jets (65% more speed during booster) compared to combustible and fusillade wasn't that great.
    Dark stalker and bounce hourse were fine, good talents but not as OP as accelerant and old evie's kit.
    The hypermobility was just an excuse to please console players and make the game easier for everyone when in reality paladins was fine and console and pc could have been balanced separately.
    And right now mobility is even more counterable and easy to handle.
    What if instead all champions and talents were as mobile as bk and evie?? Well, there could have been a mobility meta where every the most viable aspect was mobility... and since all characters had that insane amount of viable mobility there would have been a real "hypermobility era".
    A common mistake is to call meta the most frustrating and unfun thing in the game but in reality meta is "MOST EFFICIENT TACTIC AVAILABLE" , not "MOST ANNOYING TACTIC AVAILABLE".
    Example, the fact that ttk is low asf and damage is really high doesn't necessarly mean that there is a "burst meta".
    The meta is now healing/self healing because it's the only thing that counters OP ez burst.


  • PC

    @KicsitCsicska said in Over the Moon:

    'Over the Moon doesn't exist'
    It has dmg bonus but doesn't reduce her ttk, because enemies are still 3 shots.

    That's overlooking the possibility that other teammates may have applied damage to your target. Same thing for any of the other damage buffs.


  • PC

    @Driggydrug
    meta is healing self healing? uh just with that I know U don't know much about metas
    and it was hyper mobility, the devs said it numerous time...
    and not only bk and evie, maeve is an easy other exemple, andro too, and so on
    and actually I like mobility, but that much wouldn't be healthy for the game



  • @TangAce said in Over the Moon:
    evie is one of the most balanced champ imo, she's pretty good but has many counters, and is pretty hard to play as well

    Most of Evie's cards are trash, she has the most unused cards in the game, I don't think she is balanced at all. Only her meta is balanced, but she has way too much useless options to pick. Literally everbody uses the same loadout as her.


  • PC

    @KicsitCsicska
    I don't use the same loadout as other people, yet I think mine is better, people are just meta slave so thye just pick what loadout some pro or streamer made...



  • @TangAce I checked your loadouts and you use all of the meta cards as her with different leveling. All of your loadouts use the best 5 cards, except 'speed' with the 6th Rift Walker.



  • @TangAce said in Over the Moon:

    @Driggydrug
    meta is healing self healing? uh just with that I know U don't know much about metas
    and it was hyper mobility, the devs said it numerous time...
    and not only bk and evie, maeve is an easy other exemple, andro too, and so on
    and actually I like mobility, but that much wouldn't be healthy for the game

    ooh, sorry if my meta knowledge is not as good as yours, I don't have a degree in metology yet so I'm still ignorant lmao.
    Seriously, so many things were said about healing/sustain and burst damage under this thread and you still believe to that stupid bs "burst meta"?
    I'm not saying that high burst isn't annoying ofc, it needs to be reduced as soon as possible... but right now it's not meta.
    Have you asked yourself why support's HP were nerfed and compensated with more healing?? You still don't know why the composition "2 tanks 1 healer" is M.E.T.A.??
    Burst would be meta only if there was no counter it to it, but since self healing and healing are good counters against low ttk and op burst I'd say that SUSTAIN is meta right now.

    Why do you keep staying in hirez's side when it comes to mobility?? Developpers said that mobility was too much and it was meta just to plan some excuses to make the game easier and less reactive, they wanted to please noobs and console players.
    So many people complained about mobility nerfs, so many Esport pros... there is a reason you know? All thoose mobility nerfs were bad and caused even more balancement issues.
    Androxus hypermobile?? Did you even play him?? Maybe all the bullsh** excuses that hirez  said made you forgot how well balanced and hard to play was andro 2 years ago.
    Dark stalker was far from being too strong, its cooldown was also nerfed, the reason why it was removed is the same of all the other talents... make the life easier to noobs, console players and the game more casual.
    When in reality separately balanced platforms could have solved everything.
    Your concept of "META" and "HYPERMOBILITY" looks a little distorted, I suggest you to play tf2 and see how balanced and healthy can be high mobility.


  • PC

    @Driggydrug
    just tell me how self healing can be meta? when caut 3 exists
    just tell me why you never see good players buying life reap if this is self healing meta?
    then maybe 2 tank is meta, but solo tank works as well (you could even see that yesterday during pml for exemple)
    why is jenos meta if it's a healing meta? he doesn't have burst heal at all, people play jenos for a dmg buff not for his healing output

    yes we complained about mobility, because some flanks for exemple, don't have any decent mobility, but seriously, when you see that maeve for exemple has already that mobility and it makes her op already, why would you need more mobility than that? the triple jump was bullshit
    andro is my most played champion, right now his dashes were nerfed too much, but at the time he had the old dark stalker...that was way too op, now andro is fine, he just need reversal fixed, a slight increase on dash speed, and you have a balanced champ, don't need to have the old dark stalker back, I don't want all people to play andro cuz he's op, the same way people started to play willo cause she's op

    just look what they did to willo and the result, they buffed her mobility, now she's destroying mostly any other champ, she got 10% increased winrate since the buff, just for a tiny bit of mobility, and people want a slight debuff already, the buff was needed, it was just too much

    finally, dark stalker was changed way before crossplay, the same as all old mobility talents actually, but anyway I'm not talking about console here

    PS : I have played tf2, and I don't even see why you bring it up here, the 2 games are clearly different, game modes are different, and there is no high mobility whatsoever in tf2, plus tf2 is quite well balanced but that's not the question here since paladins ain't tf2

    @KicsitCsicska
    most people use the 5 heal 5 distance 3 speed loadout, which I find awful
    my loadout is based on soar reset
    I agree you don't use many different cards on evie, but that's just the same with every champ you know... cause there always are best cards, like you'll always see lian use the cd reduction one, or barik and his bowling ball, or all that dash resets on low life, people use it because it's better than other cards, doesn't mean other cards are really bad (some are that's sure but still)
    I'd even say some champs are balanced around some cards, like barik who's health is balanced considering bowling ball for exemple



  • @KicsitCsicska

    So we are letting Evie 2 shot supports now?

    Can we not?



  • @TangAce said in Over the Moon:

    @Driggydrug
    just tell me how self healing can be meta? when caut 3 exists
    just tell me why you never see good players buying life reap if this is self healing meta?
    then maybe 2 tank is meta, but solo tank works as well (you could even see that yesterday during pml for exemple)
    why is jenos meta if it's a healing meta? he doesn't have burst heal at all, people play jenos for a dmg buff not for his healing output

    Well, you keep insisting... and it's fine, I don't want to repeat the same things for the 3rd time, ask to professional players then.
    So tell me, if it isn't sustain, what is meta right now??

    yes we complained about mobility, because some flanks for exemple, don't have any decent mobility, but seriously, when you see that maeve for exemple has already that mobility and it makes her op already, why would you need more mobility than that? the triple jump was bullshit

    maybe I misunderstood or you wrote wrong but what you said just proves that the nerfs weren't needed and the old mobility was fine.
    You said it yourself , "we complained because flankers don't have any decent mobility".
    And that's exactly the point of the discussion.
    They nerfed mobility with the excuse of "HYPERMOBILITY" but they ended up ruining an entire class, the flanker one.
    The old mobility was fine, it shouldn't have been removed, flankers were supposed to be like that, very mobile characters that can deal consistent dmg at close range.
    But as most part of the comminity noticed , flankers right now have garbage mobility and too much burst, they are just close range damage dealers and more poke is going to completely merge the 2 classes.
    I agree that meave doesn't need more mobility, she is fine (even if I'd rather nerf her poke by adding more proj. Drop off or dmg fall off and compensate with more speed on prowl).
    I agree triple jump was bullshit, it was never picked and basically useless... however it was very fun 😞
    But all the old mobility talents were removed unnecessarily, they were fine and far from being "hypermobile" or "META".
    Bounce house was fine, dark stalker was fine, OTM sucked, Cat boulgar sucked, Acrobatics sucked, aeral assault was fine... stop using the hypermobility excuse, it's so goddamn cringey ffs!

    andro is my most played champion, right now his dashes were nerfed too much, but at the time he had the old dark stalker...that was way too op, now andro is fine, he just need reversal fixed, a slight increase on dash speed, and you have a balanced champ, don't need to have the old dark stalker back, I don't want all people to play andro cuz he's op, the same way people started to play willo cause she's op

    Great to have an androxus main here, I play him a lot too. But maybe you forgot how balanced and hard to play he was when he had dark stalker. He wasn't OP at all, the talent was also nerfed in ob51... Dark stalker just provided a better dash management but overall he didn't give additional dashes or less cooldown. It even increased the cooldown, every charge had 4 sec cooldown, this means that if you used all your 3 steps you had to wait 2 sec more than the normal cooldown (12 sec instead of 10)
    Dark stalker was just a "life improvement" for a player that didn't want to manage dashes and waste them... I don't get how can it be considered OP.
    In my opinion this talent should come back and be in basekit, this would help andro a little because right now he depends too much on 1 specific build (the reset one + godslayer).

    just look what they did to willo and the result, they buffed her mobility, now she's destroying mostly any other champ, she got 10% increased winrate since the buff, just for a tiny bit of mobility, and people want a slight debuff already, the buff was needed, it was just too much

    The problem with willo isn't the new distance, it's the DR card + the buffed cooldown card.
    They should rework the DR with some heals or air control, idk.

    finally, dark stalker was changed way before crossplay, the same as all old mobility talents actually, but anyway I'm not talking about console here

    PS : I have played tf2, and I don't even see why you bring it up here, the 2 games are clearly different, game modes are different, and there is no high mobility whatsoever in tf2, plus tf2 is quite well balanced but that's not the question here since paladins ain't tf2

    How many hours did you spend on tf2 lmao??
    From what I hear it seems that you only played 1 match , got rekted and unistalled the game.
    TF2 is very similar to paladins : customizable loadouts that prevent different playstyles, 3 classes with different roles, same gamemodes (the payload one, the one with 2 carts and even king of the hill whete you have to contest 1 point).
    And tf2 is probably the game with the highest mobility, every class can have absurd amount of moviment with certain weapons, loadouts or even by basekit.
    Soldier can make huge rocket jumps, demoman can travel huge distances with sticky bombs (it's basically old accelerant with no cooldown), scount is incredibly fast, he can double jump (he can even do 5 jumps with a weapon), Engineer can shoot rockets from his lvl 3 turret and travel huge distances, spy can be invisible and have a lot speed, demoman can also sprint if you use a shield. The only 2 slow characters are heavy and sniper. The ttk is also fairly high and characters requires a lot of pratice, aim and gamesense to be played.



  • @Driggydrug said in Over the Moon:

    The meta is now healing/self healing because it's the only thing that counters OP ez burst.

    how?

    why wouldn't it be idk damage reduction, since it's more reliable



  • @TangAce said in Over the Moon:

    PS : I have played tf2, and I don't even see why you bring it up here, the 2 games are clearly different, game modes are different, and there is no high mobility whatsoever in tf2, plus tf2 is quite well balanced but that's not the question here since paladins ain't tf2

    you're kidding me right?

    have you not heard of sticky and rocket jumping?
    surfing?

    sentry jumping?

    air strafes?

    the first 3 are in any comp match


  • PC

    @Zeebuoy
    yeah I know all these, but can you call that "hyper" mobility? also you take self damage when doing most of these
    and the 2 games are very different anyway, you can't compare, especially not mobility-wise since the mobility isn't even implemented the same way


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