Let's talk about "comeback mechanics"



  • I feel like the game shouldn't reward underperforming teams with as much advantages as we currently have right now. In fact it makes some games way longer than they should be so I think that some changes are in order but my main issues are:

    1. "Fast capping"

    I find it absurd that the team who managed to capture the point AND push in the payload to get 2 points lead not only gets NOTHING for pushing in the cart (Talking about bonus credits right now) but also gets punished by game mechanics that make the enemy team gain control of the point 25% faster (4% per tick instead of usual 3%) just because the better team got a lead in points. It evolves into even more stupid scenarios when in a 3-2 situation the team who was underperforming gets a massive credits lead due to the "comeback mechanics" (2 captured points vs 1 captured point + payload push and defended push) so in my opinion not only the "fast capping" needs to go but the team who pushed in the payload needs to be rewarded with the usual +300 credits that you normally get for capturing a point.

    2. Streaks

    This is a little less aggravating problem but still a problem nonetheless. Well performing players are getting punished by the "streak" mechanics that not only give bonus credits in case of getting killed by underperforming enemy player but it also gives a massive ultimate charge boost. While I'm ok with the slight credits bonus because it's not as impactful the ultimate boost seems out of place. Why a player which is on a 20+ streak should basically become a free ult dispenser to the first person who kills him? All it takes is one mistake to lead to a situation where in a 3-3 scenario the worse team effectively has 6+ ultimates for the final point fight so I say remove the bonus to ultimates and credits bonus for killing players on streaks. If you really want to you can keep the credits bonus but i'd rather have it removed but ultimate charges are an absolute no-no.



  • @adek183 said in Let's talk about "comeback mechanics":

    I feel like the game shouldn't reward underperforming teams with as much advantages as we currently have right now. In fact it makes some games way longer than they should be so I think that some changes are in order but my main issues are:

    It definitely should. There's nothing more satisfying than an even 3-3 game even if you lose. You think skill is the only reason why these even matches happen? Na-ah. Comeback mechanics help those as well. I hate stomps, both as a winner and loser.

    If anything there should be more things that encourage even matches. For example, I always hated how team that caps the point gains 300 credits. It snowballs the living shit out of the match. I think both team should get those credits. Or at least losing team should get a portion of that value to not get completely stomped by something like cc or heal stacking comps.



  • @TTraw said in Let's talk about "comeback mechanics":

    @adek183 said in Let's talk about "comeback mechanics":

    I feel like the game shouldn't reward underperforming teams with as much advantages as we currently have right now. In fact it makes some games way longer than they should be so I think that some changes are in order but my main issues are:

    It definitely should. There's nothing more satisfying than an even 3-3 game even if you lose. You think skill is the only reason why these even matches happen? Na-ah. Comeback mechanics help those as well. I hate stomps, both as a winner and loser.

    If anything there should be more things that encourage even matches. For example, I always hated how team that caps the point gains 300 credits. It snowballs the living shit out of the match. I think both team should get those credits. Or at least losing team should get a portion of that value to not get completely stomped by something like cc or heal stacking comps.

    So you're telling me that you enjoy being punished for being a better player? Man way to encourage people to play ranked huh? "I hate stomps" is not an argument because stomps will happen regardless if it's a forced 4-3 or a 4-0 both teams will certainly feel it if they've been stomped/were stomping the other team. As heal or cc stacking comps we're not talking about current meta right now just raw game mechanics that reward LACK of skill. In fact you technically have better odds of winning by forfeiting all of your payload pushes and doing 3 captures. In that way you get 900 credits lead but the fact that the game encourages THROWING is kind of ridiculous, don't you think? Let's look how other games deal with underperforming teams for comparison:

    League of Legends:

    The stronger team quickly gets a lead in gold but to counteract that there's a "streak" system similar to Paladins but the one and only thing that you get for killing a player on a streak is a little bit of bonus gold. It's not enough to get the severely underperforming teams on the top but if the fights start to turn to either side it keeps both teams on their toes effectively making the game more competitive and more entertaining to watch on esport scenes. That's a "comeback mechanic" done right.

    Now imagine if every time you killed a player on a streak in LoL either by sheer luck or by simply outplaying them ONCE the player on the losing team would instantly refresh the 4 minutes long cooldown of their ultimate while the winning team has all their ultimates still on cooldown. Would that feel fair?

    Counter-Strike: Global Offensive

    The losing team gets less cash rewards for completed rounds but can try to hide and save their strong weapons in case that there's pretty much no chance of winning the round similar to how you could save your ults for the next round in Paladins. It gives a choice to either try to fight for the round (you still have a chance to win a 1v5) which is highly risky but realistically your opponents have more to lose than you. (2 kills are enough for the risk to already payoff) or not taking any more risks in hopes of turning the tides by saving the gun for the next round.

    Now imagine if the team that is say 4 points behind the winning team would plant and detonate or defuse the bomb 25% faster? Would that feel fair to the winning team?



  • I think the fast overtime for the winning team and the fast charge for losing team is absurd, not the concept, but how extreme it is. I like being able to make a comeback with a LITTLE help and I'm fine losing if they have a LITTLE help. But I love when the score is 3-3, I stand up and play during that. That amazing music wouldn't play as much without the comeback mechanic. So yes, I think they should give a small boost to the losing team.



  • @adek183 If one team truly is that good, the losing team won't get the chance to cap with comeback mechanic. Also, I've won a lot of games where we were behind and comeback mechanic DID come out really clutch. Playing against it is just something you have to deal with. The comeback mechanic makes it more exciting rather than discouraging the losing team. Also, having bots on your team, then losing, being able to convert the 2-0 more easily in a 2-1 is truly helpful. I think comeback mechanic is positive in esports scenarios to have more exciting games, but also in games with less even teams or just a way to stop the snowball of the enemy team and getting a chance to breath. I can see frustrations around this but as I said, an enough experienced team should know how to play into this.



  • @Carlolrac555
    that is a really well put together argument 🙂



  • @Wabit Aye thanks, glad to hear that :), thought it was a lil scattered around but happy u liked it xd



  • @TTraw said in Let's talk about "comeback mechanics":

    @adek183 said in Let's talk about "comeback mechanics":

    I feel like the game shouldn't reward underperforming teams with as much advantages as we currently have right now. In fact it makes some games way longer than they should be so I think that some changes are in order but my main issues are:

    It definitely should. There's nothing more satisfying than an even 3-3 game even if you lose. You think skill is the only reason why these even matches happen? Na-ah. Comeback mechanics help those as well. I hate stomps, both as a winner and loser.

    If anything there should be more things that encourage even matches. For example, I always hated how team that caps the point gains 300 credits. It snowballs the living shit out of the match. I think both team should get those credits. Or at least losing team should get a portion of that value to not get completely stomped by something like cc or heal stacking comps.

    I don't think both teams should get those credits, but I do think that the defending team should get 150 credits. Like they kept the other team from pushing it, shouldn't they get a reward for that?



  • @Carlolrac555 said in Let's talk about "comeback mechanics":

    @adek183 If one team truly is that good, the losing team won't get the chance to cap with comeback mechanic. Also, I've won a lot of games where we were behind and comeback mechanic DID come out really clutch. Playing against it is just something you have to deal with. The comeback mechanic makes it more exciting rather than discouraging the losing team. Also, having bots on your team, then losing, being able to convert the 2-0 more easily in a 2-1 is truly helpful. I think comeback mechanic is positive in esports scenarios to have more exciting games, but also in games with less even teams or just a way to stop the snowball of the enemy team and getting a chance to breath. I can see frustrations around this but as I said, an enough experienced team should know how to play into this.

    If you'd watch some paladins esports scene you'd see that even the shittiest teams usually don't get 4-0'd due to how extreme the comeback mechanics are. You only see a 4-0 if the losing team got outdrafted heavily or they plainly threw the match and in 99% of the cases it's a forced 3-4 when real game actually begins on 2-2 or 3-3 where neither team is getting unfair advantages everything inbetween usually leans heavily towards the losing team which like I said before promotes THROWING THE ROUNDS just to avoid comeback mechanic being a thing. Do you really want to defend a mechanic that actively forces you to either go 4-0 or go home? It's enough that overtime in this game is pathetically easy to achieve (All it takes is to just step on the point for one "tick" at around 80% capture) and that you get points for defending which is a punishment for failing to get the point but since it doesn't reward the losing team with any real advantage I'm fine with it but again get it trough your head... The game punishes you for pushing in the payload and rewards the losing team with faster capture time, extra ultimate charge on kills, extra credits, and literally encourages you to jump off the map if you're on high streak to prevent instant ult charge which happened multiple times in esport scenes. Why bother pushing in the cart when you can just stay at 1-1 and keep capping without giving the other team unfair advantages? Heck why keep a flawless kda if you risk a fight with potential of 10 ults vs 5 ults? You could compare this comeback mechanic to something like that:

    Let's say that you are a runner in a 100m sprint competition and you're up against 9 other people of similar skills to you. You all have to do 3 laps BUT every person that's NOT on the first place gets 25% taken off their total times. You finish the race on the first place but due to the "comeback mechanic" in the current competition the second guy wins by 0.5 seconds. Would you ever participate in such event again?



  • @adek183 U seem to think comeback mechanic makes the payload move faster and give the losing team a furia ult boost. At 3-3 the cap speed is the same, which makes half of your arguments invalid. Overtime works at 87% IF the opposing team steps off immediately, its about 5s before the point gets capped, stepping on it to trigger overtime. Also the game doesn't punish you for pushing in the payload. Neither does it reward the losing team with extra ult charge nor extra credits. If you're on a high streak, you get credits faster, ult charge faster per dmg and kills or other roles you fulfill. Btw, you seem to not have been following esports, because I've seen a LOT of 4-0's or 4-1, 4-2's, so idk what ure talking about.


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