Support Suggestions v1



  • @DaddyOoker said in Support Suggestions v1:

    @SNIper-poTAto

    Furia: Yeah, confirm the stun. That's why I think 25% is too much.

    MalDama: Pros use that card and in the heat of the moment it's not that easy to always hit. With your change and that card (as is) it will have zero CD if you miss. Why have the card then?

    Seris: That is my concern. Maybe I'm not a Seris main but Seris is my most used support. Being able to land those orbs at mid to long range is one of her worst issues. I also think you're wrong about short range. Try hitting a jumping Maeve with an orb. It's not an easy task right now - 20% speed increase might change that. I'm concerned that all those changes at once would make her OP broken.

    Ying: Correct me if I'm wrong but when you shatter (Resonance), the illusions will chase down an enemy for 2.5 seconds. If no enemy is hit it explodes anyway at the 2.5s point. If you lower that time to 2s then the illusions have less time to chase. This means POSSIBLY putting more points into Pursuit to increase the likelihood of damaging an enemy. Of course if the enemy is right there then it makes no difference.
    I'm not sure how this is making shatter better - maybe you can explain it in more detail as I'm not getting something.

    Furia: the 25% speed buff is towards Exterminate talent not base kit. She loses a good amount of heals and is now highly dependent on the stun to confirm to get value from the talent. If she fails to confirm stun, which is the point of the talent, she will underperform in both dmg and heals compared to her other talents cuz the additional heals also aid her dmg potential. she loses significant healing output and she will be more reachable without range from cherish and her wrath source won't be filled instantly without beam heal. Since she has card to increase radius of beam, I'll nerf it down to 15% right away.
    Maldamba: Then good for Eerie Presense cuz you won't need it at lvl 4 or 5. The card will be best at lvl 3 which leaves more room for other cards that will aid his hybrid playstyle. Wrath can do both hybrid and full dmg better than curse as he has his rmb and more stun dmg. Curse can't do hybrid playstyle at wraths level becuz he has to use his heal ability and full dmg on curse cuz wrath has more dps while having cc. the only advantage of curse dmg over wrath is unlimited range.
    Seris: Hitting a jumping Maeve hardly takes effort with enough getting used to the weapon. It will be a different story if she is doing that while having prowl or if she is jumping after pouncing above you. Soul collector dmg is not much of a deal cuz of how long it takes to reach 10 or 15 stacks and you will die more at some point in high elos making it deja vu all over again. the talent is only viable becuz her base healing is good. the dmg isn't rlly strong talent wise. Let's see what a seris main has to say about this first cuz the change on agony and weapon are rlly needed becuz dmg seris doesn't exist in a real elo. There is only hybrid seris. I'll remove the cooldown reduction on rend soul I guess.. but not too soon.
    Ying: Her base shatter without resonance has little to no value becuz it can be destroyed easily. so this will help her base shatter be better and her health card for illusions better rather than to counter snipers(illusions can simply be headshoted EZ). With Resonace, you can just deploy an illusion right above or close to the player and get dmg. Chasing with resonance isn't needed much. Her base shatter needs some love and I've suggested to revert dim link as well. that nerf hurt resonance the most and will make ying great again. It's a win-win for both base shatter and aggro resonance in general. Additionally, chasing with illusions and deploying them right at enemy front door don't have same value as chase shatter has mostly luck involved+AI is bugged. chasing is bad cuz your team needs some heals from time to time as well. No need to chase, it's better to shatter right at front door, it's better not chasing with shatter but using that time to dish heals.


  • PC

    @SNIper-poTAto said in Support Suggestions v1:

    @DaddyOoker said in Support Suggestions v1:

    @SNIper-poTAto

    Furia: Yeah, confirm the stun. That's why I think 25% is too much.

    MalDama: Pros use that card and in the heat of the moment it's not that easy to always hit. With your change and that card (as is) it will have zero CD if you miss. Why have the card then?

    Seris: That is my concern. Maybe I'm not a Seris main but Seris is my most used support. Being able to land those orbs at mid to long range is one of her worst issues. I also think you're wrong about short range. Try hitting a jumping Maeve with an orb. It's not an easy task right now - 20% speed increase might change that. I'm concerned that all those changes at once would make her OP broken.

    Ying: Correct me if I'm wrong but when you shatter (Resonance), the illusions will chase down an enemy for 2.5 seconds. If no enemy is hit it explodes anyway at the 2.5s point. If you lower that time to 2s then the illusions have less time to chase. This means POSSIBLY putting more points into Pursuit to increase the likelihood of damaging an enemy. Of course if the enemy is right there then it makes no difference.
    I'm not sure how this is making shatter better - maybe you can explain it in more detail as I'm not getting something.

    Furia: the 25% speed buff is towards Exterminate talent not base kit. She loses a good amount of heals and is now highly dependent on the stun to confirm to get value from the talent. If she fails to confirm stun, which is the point of the talent, she will underperform in both dmg and heals compared to her other talents cuz the additional heals also aid her dmg potential. she loses significant healing output and she will be more reachable without range from cherish and her wrath source won't be filled instantly without beam heal. Since she has card to increase radius of beam, I'll nerf it down to 15% right away.
    Maldamba: Then good for Eerie Presense cuz you won't need it at lvl 4 or 5. The card will be best at lvl 3 which leaves more room for other cards that will aid his hybrid playstyle. Wrath can do both hybrid and full dmg better than curse as he has his rmb and more stun dmg. Curse can't do hybrid playstyle at wraths level becuz he has to use his heal ability and full dmg on curse cuz wrath has more dps while having cc. the only advantage of curse dmg over wrath is unlimited range.
    Seris: Hitting a jumping Maeve hardly takes effort with enough getting used to the weapon. It will be a different story if she is doing that while having prowl or if she is jumping after pouncing above you. Soul collector dmg is not much of a deal cuz of how long it takes to reach 10 or 15 stacks and you will die more at some point in high elos making it deja vu all over again. the talent is only viable becuz her base healing is good. the dmg isn't rlly strong talent wise. Let's see what a seris main has to say about this first cuz the change on agony and weapon are rlly needed becuz dmg seris doesn't exist in a real elo. There is only hybrid seris. I'll remove the cooldown reduction on rend soul I guess.. but not too soon.
    Ying: Her base shatter without resonance has little to no value becuz it can be destroyed easily. so this will help her base shatter be better and her health card for illusions better rather than to counter snipers(illusions can simply be headshoted EZ). With Resonace, you can just deploy an illusion right above or close to the player and get dmg. Chasing with resonance isn't needed much. Her base shatter needs some love and I've suggested to revert dim link as well. that nerf hurt resonance the most and will make ying great again. It's a win-win for both base shatter and aggro resonance in general. Additionally, chasing with illusions and deploying them right at enemy front door don't have same value as chase shatter has mostly luck involved+AI is bugged. chasing is bad cuz your team needs some heals from time to time as well. No need to chase, it's better to shatter right at front door, it's better not chasing with shatter but using that time to dish heals.

    Furia: I understand it's only for the talent. If you get hit with that beam you get a minimum of 800 damage. That in itself isn't the danger of it. It's the team focusing the stunned target. Similar to Makoa's hook. Basically a free kill.

    Maldamba: I edited my post suggesting new values for the Eerie Presense card which I think you didn't see. Current card values at max points would give negative .5s CD if you miss - no matter what a change is needed to this card if Mending Spirits CD becomes 2s.

    Seris: Maeve has multiple movement boost cards. The good Maeves are tough to hit with any champion. OK, let's see other's reactions.

    Ying: I still don't get it. How does changing the 2.5s time to 2s improve the value of the illusions? They still will be destroyed as easily as they are now.
    Do you know why dim link was nerfed to begin with? I don't, I'm asking.
    I won't comment on the rest since it's mostly play style and circumstances.



  • @DaddyOoker said in Support Suggestions v1:

    @SNIper-poTAto said in Support Suggestions v1:

    @DaddyOoker said in Support Suggestions v1:

    @SNIper-poTAto

    Furia: Yeah, confirm the stun. That's why I think 25% is too much.

    MalDama: Pros use that card and in the heat of the moment it's not that easy to always hit. With your change and that card (as is) it will have zero CD if you miss. Why have the card then?

    Seris: That is my concern. Maybe I'm not a Seris main but Seris is my most used support. Being able to land those orbs at mid to long range is one of her worst issues. I also think you're wrong about short range. Try hitting a jumping Maeve with an orb. It's not an easy task right now - 20% speed increase might change that. I'm concerned that all those changes at once would make her OP broken.

    Ying: Correct me if I'm wrong but when you shatter (Resonance), the illusions will chase down an enemy for 2.5 seconds. If no enemy is hit it explodes anyway at the 2.5s point. If you lower that time to 2s then the illusions have less time to chase. This means POSSIBLY putting more points into Pursuit to increase the likelihood of damaging an enemy. Of course if the enemy is right there then it makes no difference.
    I'm not sure how this is making shatter better - maybe you can explain it in more detail as I'm not getting something.

    Furia: the 25% speed buff is towards Exterminate talent not base kit. She loses a good amount of heals and is now highly dependent on the stun to confirm to get value from the talent. If she fails to confirm stun, which is the point of the talent, she will underperform in both dmg and heals compared to her other talents cuz the additional heals also aid her dmg potential. she loses significant healing output and she will be more reachable without range from cherish and her wrath source won't be filled instantly without beam heal. Since she has card to increase radius of beam, I'll nerf it down to 15% right away.
    Maldamba: Then good for Eerie Presense cuz you won't need it at lvl 4 or 5. The card will be best at lvl 3 which leaves more room for other cards that will aid his hybrid playstyle. Wrath can do both hybrid and full dmg better than curse as he has his rmb and more stun dmg. Curse can't do hybrid playstyle at wraths level becuz he has to use his heal ability and full dmg on curse cuz wrath has more dps while having cc. the only advantage of curse dmg over wrath is unlimited range.
    Seris: Hitting a jumping Maeve hardly takes effort with enough getting used to the weapon. It will be a different story if she is doing that while having prowl or if she is jumping after pouncing above you. Soul collector dmg is not much of a deal cuz of how long it takes to reach 10 or 15 stacks and you will die more at some point in high elos making it deja vu all over again. the talent is only viable becuz her base healing is good. the dmg isn't rlly strong talent wise. Let's see what a seris main has to say about this first cuz the change on agony and weapon are rlly needed becuz dmg seris doesn't exist in a real elo. There is only hybrid seris. I'll remove the cooldown reduction on rend soul I guess.. but not too soon.
    Ying: Her base shatter without resonance has little to no value becuz it can be destroyed easily. so this will help her base shatter be better and her health card for illusions better rather than to counter snipers(illusions can simply be headshoted EZ). With Resonace, you can just deploy an illusion right above or close to the player and get dmg. Chasing with resonance isn't needed much. Her base shatter needs some love and I've suggested to revert dim link as well. that nerf hurt resonance the most and will make ying great again. It's a win-win for both base shatter and aggro resonance in general. Additionally, chasing with illusions and deploying them right at enemy front door don't have same value as chase shatter has mostly luck involved+AI is bugged. chasing is bad cuz your team needs some heals from time to time as well. No need to chase, it's better to shatter right at front door, it's better not chasing with shatter but using that time to dish heals.

    Furia: I understand it's only for the talent. If you get hit with that beam you get a minimum of 800 damage. That in itself isn't the danger of it. It's the team focusing the stunned target. Similar to Makoa's hook. Basically a free kill.

    Maldamba: I edited my post suggesting new values for the Eerie Presense card which I think you didn't see. Current card values at max points would give negative .5s CD if you miss - no matter what a change is needed to this card if Mending Spirits CD becomes 2s.

    Seris: Maeve has multiple movement boost cards. The good Maeves are tough to hit with any champion. OK, let's see other's reactions.

    Ying: I still don't get it. How does changing the 2.5s time to 2s improve the value of the illusions? They still will be destroyed as easily as they are now.
    Do you know why dim link was nerfed to begin with? I don't, I'm asking.
    I won't comment on the rest since it's mostly play style and circumstances.

    Dont mind me if i took long to respond. I was busy.
    Furia: You proved your point. Ill lower the beam speed to 10% for now.

    MalDamba: I still dont think nerfing Eerie Presence is a good idea. The cooldown buff on Mending Spirits is only for the dmg talent. It would have a minor but still negative impact to his heal playstyles. And your right i didnt notice the edit you made to Eerie Presence so ill think about it more.

    Ying: The main point of base shatter without resonance is chase, but discreetly. You simply dont use it right infront of an enemies line of sight cuz its stupid as you arent on resonance at this point but on focusing lens. The smartest way to use it for dmg is to place it on corners that is not on their LoS. It gives them atleast .7s less time to react from the explosion time depending on how you place it at a specific corner. It can still be destroyed at that point but you can use the illusion as a distraction to use your weapon without risking too much as the player is focusing more on the illusion(its not always a good idea). Using shatter while players are distracted is a better way to dish dmg. Base Shatter as it is now has helped me get atleast below 1.5k dmg or 2-3 kills most games. The new 2s timer would help it significantly. But making it 1.5s would make her somewhat strong making Focusing Lens potentially better than Resonance imo. No ones exactly sure why dim link was nerfed there are many reasons. The 0.1s prefire might have been "too much" for flanks to deal with even tho it has a long cooldown. It could have been cuz she could heal alot to a single ally with lifelink or Life exchange before its new rework(not sure about LE) using the 0.1s post-fire. There are alot of reasons but there are no real explanations for the nerf.


  • PC

    @SNIper-poTAto

    I think the light finally came on as to what I wasn't understanding.

    How about a new card or change a currently useless card (whatever that might be) to allow the player to reduce the current timer value to suit their preference - say {.15|.15).

    Between the recent weapon buffs and the easy to get 200 bonus I already think FL is easier to get value out of than Resonance.



  • @DaddyOoker
    Thats honestly a bad idea. The card would only be useful on Focusing Lens, but has 5 better loadout cards to help her playstyle which include Carry on, Ephemeral, Encouragement, Rewind, Spring Bloom and maybe Squadron. Its better off as a base kit change cuz it will take more points away from other effective cards. Resonance has more much more dmg value than Focusing Lens. The difference between Resonance and FL is that, Focusing Lens does both healing and dmg without being dominant at either. She can work as a solo healer if your team is good and prioritizes caut( you should as well). Resonance cant heal as good as FL. The one thing Reso does better than FL in terms of healing is faster ult charge. FL does it as well but at a slower rate.


  • PC

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  • Moderator

    Dim Link was nerfed before Lifelike was any good and before Life Exchange was even a thing.

    It was nerfed in a patch that was a sweeping mobility reduction patch. It was like OB 62 or something, but I don't remember exactly. Ying was just one of the champions who had their mobility reduced. I'm not saying I agree with the nerf, it's just that she wasn't targeted specifically.



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  • PC

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