I feel its high time we talk rather devs stance on reworks



  • I've played this game for a couple years..and the one thing i feel holds this game back is the devs outright refusal..to rework characters..only Torvalds is getting that but we've been forced to wait an insane length of time for it, so many characters have bad gameplsy hooks that do nothing but frustrate , tyra fore, will deadzone, invisibility..out of these 3 alone only 1 has counterplay but even then it requires an item to counter in the slightest, then there are things like , drogoz punch, autoaim on lex and lian, things that could be something way better and healthier for the game..I can post some ideas but I feel this really really needs to get sorted out..devs..hear me out..your taking your future plans the wrong way..some old characters and mechanics mar the game in horrible ways, things must change



  • @immortalls96 those are all just different aspects of the gameplay styles. Nothing wrong with auto aim if it isn't broken. Nothing wrong with heal deny if it isnt broken. Same with anything you've mentioned. Indivisibility for low mobile champs and there' illuminate. Drogoz punch is a one smack K.O. get over it. Lol. I don't even know what tyra fore means. Tyra has mercy kill and burn monster.

    Torvold is awful though that's for sure. I think every tank in this game should be a point tank. The off tanks are off tanks because in my opinion the devs didnt try hard enough lol.



  • @Christlike while I agree with your tank sentiment..100 percent anti heal is broken, fire bomb is way too powerful for a default ability,, drogoz punch is very polarizing and boring and hes my fave dps..invisibility is badly designed..too strong without an item , useless with it..talus having a tyra ult for an ability is silly, autoaim is very lazy and with lian, broken..it just would be so much more if they would swallow their pride and admit some of these designs arnt healthy..especially if counterplay is gone from the equation



  • @immortalls96 i think you're just complaining. I can deal with all of those.



  • @Christlike i think they're unhealthy , actually I know they are..sure 9f the player is bad then you won't notice but its very different after someone gets a few hours in



  • @immortalls96 what do you want? All the unique and different stuff gutted from the game?



  • Reworks should be only considered when champions entire kit is such a questionable selection of abilities that the slightlest number tweak makes it either too overpowered or underpowered, or if it breaks skill curve.

    Abilities you are complaining about are annoying, and not really a balance issue (althought I would like to rework lian's and lex autoaims because I feel like their kits would be so much better). Any number changes done to them could potentially fix frustration you are having with them, so why even rework them to begin with.

    Reworking a champion from head to toe is a very dealbreaking moment for people that main said character. I am the great example: I stopped playing Overwatch after they reworked Sym since I didn't enjoy her new gameplay. Which is why devs are, and should be, very distanced towards the idea of full kit reworks for champions.



  • After reading this post multiple times than i would like to admit, I have finally understood what he is trying to say.
    he probably means by "Tyra fore" as "Tyra Fire" by the way.

    At some level I do believe some champions Needs a rework not just design wise and that includes champions like Kinessa, Skye (yes again, not just tits and ass i mean ACTUAL redesign gameplay wise, same treatment Sha lin got) and Vivian.
    Because Skye heavily counters by a simple item that counters her whole core of gameplay than anyone else.

    Sha lin and Strix can still manage to do things unlike Skye that basically becomes useless as soon enemy picks enough illuminate.

    and i doubt that will happen due to the extremely overwhelming players that to this day still complain about Skye, and requesting nerfs in low elo not knowing how to pick illuminate, especially in NA region for some reason.

    Kinessa is just too old that everything else around her changed and maps no longer gives her the freedom she was designed to be able to have access to, as she is in the thin line of being broken or useless.
    That is excluding how easy it is to flank her, and also how every new map forget about how she functions or other champions function.
    I just personally feel she is left behind.

    Vivian, well... I feel like the developers have no idea what to do with her at this point.
    They nerfed her like 4 times in a row, at this point they should just remove her weapon and drones and make her walk around like fashion show model.
    She was a broken boring, and extremely broken champion when she was first out now it just not that worth it.
    So, she better have a rework of her abilities to match the way things changing and obviously it made developers nerf her this bad to the point of being useless.

    But this is not the case of this Reply, just showing few example of what I personally consider worth having a rework.

    By the way, I have over 5 thousand hours playing this game and I still do not feel like I have the right to throw that into discussion, because everyone has their right to show their perspective about the game regardless of their rank, level and hours spent, of course that includes you.
    So, do not try to exclude everyone else's opinion as people who did not play the game enough as you did.
    Because in all honestly you sound like a beginner player from the issues you are pointing out. Ironically, sounding like you do not know how to counter play whatsoever.

    • Willo deadzone is not close to be broken because it's duration is extremely short after you leave it, and I would like to assume that you leave the deadzone than stay in it and believe it's broken.
      Adding to that, basically any hit scan champion can counter her easily, especially the flying ones such as Drogoz, Evie and Androxus.

    • Drogoz ult can be countered easily by Fernando and Ash using their ults.
      And others such as Ying and Io using their deployables blocking his way stops it.
      Still can't see your point about counter play mentioning drogoz's ult multiple times.

    • The aimbots of lian and lex can be reduces heavily the moment you buy some heaven, or basically basically having any champion picks with heavy shield spam makes champions such as lian not that OP and still count as counter play.

    • Tyra's fire literally counter point tanks, sure.
      However, you can counter play that by picking a flank or damager, because the moment tyra Picks "burn monster" she is much MUCH easier to flank than Marcy kill or Hunting party Tyra.
      Unless you are champions such as inara or this recent one Yagorath, you can just walk out of it.
      The fire is not an issue whatsoever.

    items are part of the core for counter play majority of your issues that bothers you, and this is while leaving the many ways to also counter each and every single champion in this game.
    From what i have understood so far is that you accuse the developers of for not caring about counter play, which is not the case.
    The issues you are pointing out at hand here are not worth reworking.
    They sound like things that personally annoy you than knowing how to counter play them or work around them.
    Because right now, ironically, Willo and Tyra point fight abilities is what needed to counter the new champion (Yagorath) which is something that seem you request to have a rework in their regard.
    The game has counter play all over it, and what needs a rework is not what you are pointing out in my honest opinion.



  • @allmighty01 i already know im going to make a harden deck with yagorath. I see that skill as being indispensable with a champ made to stay stationary.



  • @Christlike said in I feel its high time we talk rather devs stance on reworks:

    I disagree about invisibility. It's not a problem for high ranks like platin and up but it is a problem for low ranks to play against champs who can move behind you invisible and then attack and kill you in two seconds.

    And point tanks are boring. Off-tanks are the attractive to play tanks, therefor most tanks are off-tanks.



  • @M3RC3N4RI0 point of a tank is to capture the point though. Off tank to me is just a tank that cant do its job



  • @Christlike
    unfortunately I would like to disagree on that aspect.
    There is point tanks and there is off tanks.
    Champions like Khan are fully designed not to work as point tank and more like tanks that zone for the team to push, same can be applied to Ruckus and Ruam
    Some can be mix of both point tank and off tank, flexibility of tanks abilities what makes each set for a different job than believe all of them suppose to baby set the point.
    Like Ash, Fernando, Atlas, Terminus, Makoa.
    An actual Tank that is not doing his job is the tank that tries to flank without his team or go after the kills than zone carefully not a tank that just baby set the point 24/7.
    Others like barik and inara are hard more challenging to play them off tank due to their nature of design to be point tanks, and they can do it far better than the ones who can be both.

    Believing all tanks suppose to be point tanks is fundamentally flawed for both gameplay and game design or else tanks will be boring and everyone will avoid them or flanks and damagers will fully dominate the game due to lack of stronger resistance to aggressive attacks that off tanks there to handle.
    Some tanks can do things other tanks can't.

    So, in my personal opinion, off tanks are not tanks that can't do their job.
    Expected an off tank to be point tank is what shouldn't be something to point out.



  • @allmighty01 I disagree. A point tank can still play off tank role or a tank/flank. Making some tanks not able to capture the point relegates them to an auxiliary role. They are just weak in their class. If you can't capture point as a tank you've failed at your job. The off tanks fail and the devs fail.



  • @Christlike
    Well all I can say is that I respect your perspective.
    But I still disagree, because off tanks are able to do things no damager, flank can do which labels them to have their own playstyle of being an off tank than failing to be a tank.
    I believe tank only fails when he or she can not handle damage at all, not capture the objective.

    For those point tanks who are claimed to be good at being off tank while they are known to be point tanks are not as good at being off tanks as others.
    Khan and ruckus can do far better job zoning than Inara ever could.
    Atlas and Fernando can semi zone while protecting the team better than Barik ever could.
    it's difference of things and point tank and off tank topic in my honest opinion is not worth debating to have a rework or can be considered to be "failed to be tank".

    Ironically, just because you think point tanks can also flank doesn't mean they are good at that like others.
    Which applies how others can't be as good point tanks while they can but won't be effective as others.

    But it's still worth pointing your aspect of it, maybe devs might have some ideas.
    Thanks for expressing your problem about off Tanks, regardless. ☺



  • @Christlike no..just don't want base abilities to feel like ultimates



  • Most of this post just sounds like someone that does not know how to flex around abilities.

    Tyra firebomb is so easy to play around, is it a pain in the ass yes, is it broken, not at all and its her worst talent by far.

    Lex and Lian auto aim is nothing and has nothing to do with them being good. No one is doing 100k damage with Lian using only auto aim. People that cry about these two have no idea how to these champs work. It takes excellent aim to put down heavy damage with Lian. She can burst you down very quickly but you dont stand in front of her and just let her unload on you and its not really that big an issue. She is weak vs shields and its pretty easy for tanks to push her out.

    Talus i can agree more but i think its really just the talent that allows you to use it twice in quick succession that needs to be removed. It about the same as Tiberus.

    I have noticed that all of these that you are complaining about are countered buy Nimble.

    You should try getting nimble and it might help you better deal with all of these champs. It will really help you vs Lian.



  • @Christlike said in I feel its high time we talk rather devs stance on reworks:

    @M3RC3N4RI0 point of a tank is to capture the point though. Off tank to me is just a tank that cant do its job

    Says who? The job of a tank is to play at the frontline.



  • @M3RC3N4RI0 the point is the frontline.


  • PC

    @Christlike said in I feel its high time we talk rather devs stance on reworks:

    @M3RC3N4RI0 the point is the frontline.

    This is where we disagree. Point tanks and off tanks have different roles on different lines. Would you want both tanks on you team playing point? No def not. each lane has a different "frontline" based on which team has better control of the side.



  • @Nico an off tank is just a tank bumming around with its thumb up its butt. There's one role for frontline its labeled , 'frontline.'

    The fact that a point tank can do anything an 'off' tank can do just goes to show the only distinction is crappy champ design.


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