Console tier list for supports 4.2



  • @Shadowpuppy I play 90% mega potion and 10% catalyst. I have 5 in medical excellence and 4 in reload which means you have a massive area of effect and have to hit 3 teammates for a full reset. Thats 2 2k heals. Get chronos 3 and your down to a base 5 second CD on his potion after reload is on CD. I think mega potion even got a buff. Well beyond whats needed to solo support a two tank comp.

    His head is eh yeah its big and it can be a problem but i don't see it as a constant, ever present problem with no remedy. You really ought not be out where You Can get popped off like that in the first place.

    Health cards would be a great addition and even a stackable DR after hitting someone with a potion. I guess you have to balance the fact that he has the best burst healing in the game.



  • @SomeGuySomeWhere said in Console tier list for supports 4.2:

    @HeartQueen I'm curious, why on console are Khan and Lex considered priority bans over characters like snipers, Zhin, Makoa or Torvald ?
    On pc I can't honestly remember the last time I've seen Lex picked in Ranked, let alone being banned...

    Khan is a counter to almost every off tank, the only exception is Atlas. If you or anyone else on the team can't play him or Barik, then you ban him. His damage on Storm of Bullets is back to being decent again, and his ult is broken.

    Lex got buffs to Discovery. So at first Lex sucked. His Retribution was a 30 second cooldown, and 15 seconds if you went Discovery. That got buffed to where it was a 6 second cooldown. Another issue was that combat slide was completely stopped Jenos grip, which they fixed that. The last issue was that Discovery had a weird quality of life issue where you had to keep pressing a button super fast because it wouldn't shoot when you hold it down, like it was supposed to. It had the screen shake and the need to keep pressing like Death Hastens, but you had to spam it even faster and it had more accuracy. So they fixed that issue, and it's automatic like Cursed Revolver on Androxus. Now we get to the busted aspect. So Lex didn't receive a nerf to The Hunted card, which gives him up to 50% fucking life steal against his Retribution target! You couldn't justify a nerf to Lex earlier because he sucked due to outdated retributed mechanic, slide easily being countered by a Jenos grip, and his weapon being semi-automatic like base Androxus. Turns out that those three things were the only things keeping him from being meta. Who knew?!

    Makoa is literally bad right now. He was busted before because Half Shell was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" sort of thing. If you didn't shoot the shield, the Smoke and Dagger Skye in the shield would melt your point tank and they'd deathball as a 5v4 to overwhelm the rest of the team. If you shot the shield, congratulations, he got a fat reset. Well now, you can actually shoot the shield and then burst him down because he doesn't get a full reset. In other words, he sucks. Torvald's issue is that when you have to pick either Raum/Atlas/Khan or Torvald, those 3 off tanks clearly outclass him. Now that off tanks are stronger, it's better to get a good off tank to make space instead of having a Torvald pocket someone.

    The issue with Zhin is hitscans over projectiles. He's still good, but not a ban priority.
    Especially when Io, Jenos, and Torvald are out of the meta. The only pocket support that's left is Corvus actually. Zhin was a champion that was made broken by pockets. Once most of them fell, he fell as well.

    Strix is so bad on console. That nerf was actually huge. The thing that made Strix good was his ability to quick scope. Once they took that away, he sucked. I actually think that lowering his body shots to 1,100 or 1,050 with the same scope speed would've made him much better than keeping the same damage but taking away his ability to quick scope. Though I'm not too mad about it since he's an annoying champion when he's good, so meh. It's kind of like Vivian. Vivian legit sucks right now, but do I really want Vivian to actually be meta? Kinessa is largely the same as last patch tbh. You ban/pick her on her good maps, and then leave her unbanned/unpicked on her bad maps. Not much has changed.



  • @Christlike said in Console tier list for supports 4.2:

    @Shadowpuppy I play 90% mega potion and 10% catalyst. I have 5 in medical excellence and 4 in reload which means you have a massive area of effect and have to hit 3 teammates for a full reset. Thats 2 2k heals. Get chronos 3 and your down to a base 5 second CD on his potion after reload is on CD. I think mega potion even got a buff. Well beyond whats needed to solo support a two tank comp.

    His head is eh yeah its big and it can be a problem but i don't see it as a constant, ever present problem with no remedy. You really ought not be out where You Can get popped off like that in the first place.

    Health cards would be a great addition and even a stackable DR after hitting someone with a potion. I guess you have to balance the fact that he has the best burst healing in the game.

    The issue with Mega Potion is that if they don't stack, it doesn't do as well. I think if Reload were a flat cooldown, some of med. exc. was put in his base kit, he got Sturdy changed into an hp card, but Mega Potion only gave 50-75% bonus healing, he'd be much more balanced. It'd basically be a 1,500 or 1,750 heal every 2.8 seconds when Chronos 3 is online. That's balanced with Furia who has a 1,400 heal every 2.1 seconds with Chronos 3. Though personally, Furia needs a slight heal buff, but she's not a priority so meh. Even with slightly lack luster heals, she's still A tier.

    By the way @Dusklicious I forgot to @ you man, my bad. Here's the tier list for supports. I might do one for flanks and damages next, but I'm not too sure.



  • @HeartQueen .. No it's 2 2k heals in less than a second, every 5 seconds with chronos 3. Given you get a full reset on potion which is absurdly easy to do with high marks in reload and medical excellence.

    I don't get what your saying. Reload is a flat CD.


  • PC

    My PC List, specifically focused on supports, at this point is something like this, converted into your format:

    S~ Corvus, Grover (Both are about as strong, but Corv is easier)
    A~ Mal'Damba, Furia (Damba could be anywhere between B and S depending on skill)
    B~ Pip, Ying (Pip is actually pretty underrated even if he requires more skill to get value out of)
    B-~ Jenos (It's getting tempting to put him C)
    C~ Io, Seris (If anything Seris is worse than Io)
    D~ Grohk (Though in pirate ship he's A level, though that's very theoretical)

    Skye is about B- or C level if counted in the list as a support, though her ability to flank is so bad I couldn't justify D tier for her.

    If I'm being honest, support is probably the most balanced role at the moment. With DPSes there's a lot of bad DPSes especially flanks.


    What should be done most urgently is to make Grohk's Spirit's Domain heal per second increase to 750 BUT also put the amp the totem has on damage apply also to the heals. Jenos also needs a rework down the line, Seris might need base kit Agony as well because she has zero and I repeat ZERO utility. She's a worse Ying in every possible way at least for high level PC. The only thing she has is... Pubstomping? I mean she had that when she was worse than Grohk as well so means nothing.

    Most of the real urgent nerfs need to be made to tanks, specifically Barik and Atlas, and buffwise to flanks specifically to Talus and Koga (Moji could apply here but what she really needs is a rework) but that's a totally different topic.



  • @Christlike said in Console tier list for supports 4.2:

    @HeartQueen .. No it's 2 2k heals in less than a second, every 5 seconds with chronos 3. Given you get a full reset on potion which is absurdly easy to do with high marks in reload and medical excellence.

    I don't get what your saying. Reload is a flat CD.

    Reload isn't a flat cooldown. It's based on how many allies you heal. Allies need to stack to get it reset to zero, which is bad in high elo. It's a bad solo support talent that has potential to be decent. Pip himself just needs a slight nudge. I want less extreme burst and more consistency. I still want him to have increased potion heals for the sake of the name Mega Potion (so Mega heals). Just make it more consistent, but not bs to play against. If you make it so Mega Potion shaves a second off the cooldown and he heals for 1,500 or 1,750 every 2.1 seconds with Chronos 3, he'd be in a good spot. Plus giving him an hp card and making sure he can fit it in his base kit would also be good.



  • @Dusklicious I agree that support is the most balanced role in the game tbh. Though it's sort of frustrating because just a few slight nudges to some problem supports, plus a full on rework for Grohk, would make it the best and most balanced class. Pip just needs a slight Mega Potion change and an HP card to be good on console. Jenos needs to go back to his old release self with no Luminary and Celestial Touch. They nerfed his base kit to accommodate Luminary, and now he's shit without it. Kind of like how they nerfed Io's base kit to accommodate Luna capping, and then she went down to B- tier after they got rid of it. With Mal'Damba they buffed the wrong thing imo. His healing wasn't the problem. Even before the healing buff, on console at Diamond+ elo, he is top 5 in healing with Spirit's Domain. His low winrates are attributed to his cards imo. Namely his shitty Ritual Magic card. I want them to nerf his Gourd card and nerf his healing, but buff Ritual Magic.

    Skye is fucking busted on console.

    I might make a tier list for the other classes. I hope I remember to tag you. lol.



  • Okay, who is the immature 12 year old that is downvoting me? Like I can understand downvoting in a debate that you disagree with, but downvoting literally every one of my past comments. Sheesh. I swear, serial downvoters are D tier on the tier list of forum people.



  • @HeartQueen Its against forum rules to go and down vote old post. Flag on of your old post for moderation and let them know what is going on.

    I didnt even notice the down votes but i dont think down votes are ment for disagreement. Its more for rude people. You have a have a polite disagreement. Its when your arguments turn into your a noob thats why i am right and you are wrong that you should get down voted. Which i see none of.



  • So does Seris goes back to C? They fixed her Q heal this hotfix 15 -> 8%/stack



  • @TTraw said in Console tier list for supports 4.2:

    So does Seris goes back to C? They fixed her Q heal this hotfix 15 -> 8%/stack

    Maybe lower B tier. I highly doubt she'll drop to C again though. You have to remember that the 3 healbots now are Life Exchange Ying, Mortal Reach Seris, and Life Link Io. Io is a healbot now due to Luna capping going away. Seris is worse than Ying but better than Io. When you rank healbots, you factor in who heals more and is more flexible as rankings. Ying is best healbot due to having 3 ways to heal, her shatter heal having infinite range, and her ult healing across the map through walls. Seris is better than Io because she flat out heals for more and her range is longer than Io's, which makes it more flexible for the team. Seris will always be better than Io due to that, unless they give Io buffs.

    Theorycraft: the Q heal nerfs hit her Soul Collector viability at a higher level, along with the meta. Soul Collector Seris was A tier at higher elo during the double support meta, though Mortal Reach Seris was a no go. This hurts her at higher elo, but then again it would've hurt her anyway due to the meta tanks. Atlas, Barik Terminus, Khan, and Fernando have ways to block her orbs and her ult. Like if Inara and Raum were still a meta combo and Soul Collector Seris was picked against them, this nerf drops her from high A tier to flat B tier. This is because her burst damage is lower and her overall sustain is lower.

    Overall, she's still in a decent spot. Mortal Reach and Soul Collector are both decent. Solid B tier. Besides, Seris as a support is better than Jenos and Io! Would you have believe me if I went back in time and told you that? lol.


  • PC

    @HeartQueen said in Console tier list for supports 4.2:

    Damba is good on PC.

    since I am nearly just play with damba I will talk about him.. I don't think how hard/easy this champion should make a difference in his tier. thats what I am gonna say



  • @HeartQueen said in Console tier list for supports 4.2:

    Seris is better than Io because she flat out heals for more and her range is longer than Io's, which makes it more flexible for the team. Seris will always be better than Io due to that, unless they give Io buffs.

    I doubt Seris heals more than Io. At least not on a single target. Io's biggest advantage is that she can store heals and thus avoid to waste time. If there is 5 seconds no healing needed, Io can load up her moonlight and then burst out 5K heal in the next 5 seconds. Seris loses half her healing in this case and does only 2.5K. With moonwalk V Io can store even 8 seconds healing.



  • @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Console tier list for supports 4.2:

    @HeartQueen said in Console tier list for supports 4.2:

    Seris is better than Io because she flat out heals for more and her range is longer than Io's, which makes it more flexible for the team. Seris will always be better than Io due to that, unless they give Io buffs.

    I doubt Seris heals more than Io. At least not on a single target. Io's biggest advantage is that she can store heals and thus avoid to waste time. If there is 5 seconds no healing needed, Io can load up her moonlight and then burst out 5K heal in the next 5 seconds. Seris loses half her healing in this case and does only 2.5K. With moonwalk V Io can store even 8 seconds healing.

    Statistically, Seris heals way more than Io. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12TrxqtZbp2G_7p0vJYPOZvpSbCxNHFIFL_d767BTF9g/edit#gid=204021286 The top 5 heal per second supports on console at Diamond+ elo are:

    1. Mortal Reach Seris at 160 which is roughly 9,600 per minute
    2. Ripened Gourd Mal'Damba at 132.5 which is 7,950
    3. Life Exchange Ying at 132 which is 7,920
    4. Life Link Io at 132
    5. Rampant Blooming Grover at 130 which is 7,800

    This is why Seris is higher on the tier list in my eyes. Ying edges her out due to more at max potential, along with the fact that Focusing Lens Ying is also stupid good on controller.



  • @HeartQueen said in Console tier list for supports 4.2:

    Statistically, Seris heals way more than Io. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12TrxqtZbp2G_7p0vJYPOZvpSbCxNHFIFL_d767BTF9g/edit#gid=204021286 The top 5 heal per second supports on console at Diamond+ elo are:

    1. Mortal Reach Seris at 160 which is roughly 9,600 per minute
    2. Ripened Gourd Mal'Damba at 132.5 which is 7,950
    3. Life Exchange Ying at 132 which is 7,920
    4. Life Link Io at 132
    5. Rampant Blooming Grover at 130 which is 7,800

    This is why Seris is higher on the tier list in my eyes. Ying edges her out due to more at max potential, along with the fact that Focusing Lens Ying is also stupid good on controller.

    Io ranked up to the second place since you posted. 😉

    Statistic healing numbers is not the same as potential healing numbers. I'd agree that mortal reach Seris players heal probably more than players of other supports. She is the classic number one healbot.



  • @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Console tier list for supports 4.2:

    @HeartQueen said in Console tier list for supports 4.2:

    Statistically, Seris heals way more than Io. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12TrxqtZbp2G_7p0vJYPOZvpSbCxNHFIFL_d767BTF9g/edit#gid=204021286 The top 5 heal per second supports on console at Diamond+ elo are:

    1. Mortal Reach Seris at 160 which is roughly 9,600 per minute
    2. Ripened Gourd Mal'Damba at 132.5 which is 7,950
    3. Life Exchange Ying at 132 which is 7,920
    4. Life Link Io at 132
    5. Rampant Blooming Grover at 130 which is 7,800

    This is why Seris is higher on the tier list in my eyes. Ying edges her out due to more at max potential, along with the fact that Focusing Lens Ying is also stupid good on controller.

    Io ranked up to the second place since you posted. 😉

    Statistic healing numbers is not the same as potential healing numbers. I'd agree that mortal reach Seris players heal probably more than players of other supports. She is the classic number one healbot.

    Seris is the number one healbot. Which is why I don't think she's as bad as people claim, plus stats show her winrates to be B tier, which I predicted. The issue with Seris before was that she was a healbot that sucked at healing. Now she's a healbot that heals for a shit ton, which is great. She's B tier in high elo and A tier in low elo, which is great balance for her.

    Io is also okay, but she's still not better than Seris imo. Seris has more range, better escape, and more healing. Io is better at pocketing flanks and healing/damaging at the same time. Seris is better overall though.



  • @HeartQueen said in Console tier list for supports 4.2:

    Seris is the number one healbot. Which is why I don't think she's as bad as people claim, plus stats show her winrates to be B tier, which I predicted. The issue with Seris before was that she was a healbot that sucked at healing. Now she's a healbot that heals for a shit ton, which is great. She's B tier in high elo and A tier in low elo, which is great balance for her.

    Io is also okay, but she's still not better than Seris imo. Seris has more range, better escape, and more healing. Io is better at pocketing flanks and healing/damaging at the same time. Seris is better overall though.

    As I wrote, I am surprised that Seris is just average and not better than she actually seems to be. Her group heal is so strong and she is so simple to use. Under fire: just press "F". Team is death-balling: just heal in the middle. It's such a pain in the ass with Io if one tank is low on HP but instead of falling back hopping around in front of the other tank and typing "VHS". Or to use her good-luck-jump escape. Or not to get Luna killed which I need for my "heal faster" function. Simple and effective usually means strong.

    Io's range is already quite far. Her heal on single targets is better than Seris, she can heal 8K in 8 seconds (Seris can do maybe 5K) plus 40% speed what can get a point tank out of critical situations like a Tyra fire bomb. On Inara and Term, the only real point tanks, this is very strong. Well, what shall I say, Io's winrate is clearly better than Seris'. 😉



  • @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Console tier list for supports 4.2:

    @HeartQueen said in Console tier list for supports 4.2:

    Seris is the number one healbot. Which is why I don't think she's as bad as people claim, plus stats show her winrates to be B tier, which I predicted. The issue with Seris before was that she was a healbot that sucked at healing. Now she's a healbot that heals for a shit ton, which is great. She's B tier in high elo and A tier in low elo, which is great balance for her.

    Io is also okay, but she's still not better than Seris imo. Seris has more range, better escape, and more healing. Io is better at pocketing flanks and healing/damaging at the same time. Seris is better overall though.

    As I wrote, I am surprised that Seris is just average and not better than she actually seems to be. Her group heal is so strong and she is so simple to use. Under fire: just press "F". Team is death-balling: just heal in the middle. It's such a pain in the ass with Io if one tank is low on HP but instead of falling back hopping around in front of the other tank and typing "VHS". Or to use her good-luck-jump escape. Or not to get Luna killed which I need for my "heal faster" function. Simple and effective usually means strong.

    Io's range is already quite far. Her heal on single targets is better than Seris, she can heal 8K in 8 seconds (Seris can do maybe 5K) plus 40% speed what can get a point tank out of critical situations like a Tyra fire bomb. On Inara and Term, the only real point tanks, this is very strong. Well, what shall I say, Io's winrate is clearly better than Seris'. 😉

    Seris is A tier in lower elo. Seris wins more games than the average Bronze and Silver player. She's average at around Gold and Platinum. Then she tapers off at Diamond+

    You have to factor in how many play a certain champion though. It seems like dedicated Io mains/one-tricks are the ones playing her. Pip Mega Potion on console Diamond+ elo has a 57% winrate, yet only 112 people have played that talent, so it's not accurate.



  • @HeartQueen said in Console tier list for supports 4.2:

    You have to factor in how many play a certain champion though. It seems like dedicated Io mains/one-tricks are the ones playing her. Pip Mega Potion on console Diamond+ elo has a 57% winrate, yet only 112 people have played that talent, so it's not accurate.

    Winrates change only gradually at higher ranks. Io has 2K matches at Platin with a 56% winrate while Seris has 49%. It looks similar at gold. It's unlikely this is vice versa at Diamond. Seris is not exactly a high skill champion that suddenly shines at Diamond+. If a champ has such a tiny player base like Pip you might be right, that's just 10 guys which simply are good with him.



  • @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Console tier list for supports 4.2:

    @HeartQueen said in Console tier list for supports 4.2:

    You have to factor in how many play a certain champion though. It seems like dedicated Io mains/one-tricks are the ones playing her. Pip Mega Potion on console Diamond+ elo has a 57% winrate, yet only 112 people have played that talent, so it's not accurate.

    Winrates change only gradually at higher ranks. Io has 2K matches at Platin with a 56% winrate while Seris has 49%. It looks similar at gold. It's unlikely this is vice versa at Diamond. Seris is not exactly a high skill champion that suddenly shines at Diamond+. If a champ has such a tiny player base like Pip you might be right, that's just 10 guys which simply are good with him.

    This is a Diamond+ elo tier list, and people aren't using Io a lot up there. Seris simply sees more matches in that elo. I do think Io is underrated. Some people consider her a bottom 3 support, which I don't. I think Io is B tier. I just think she's not as good as Seris.


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