Tier List for Diamond PC, 4.2 (Commentary will be edited in)


  • PC

    @Christlike said in Tier List for Diamond PC, 4.2 (Commentary will be edited in):

    Lex is now easy S tier. 50% lifesteal and 30% weapon damage buff with revealed targets. And magnums are auto now.

    On console... Maybe? (More like high A). On PC he's still a bit meh. Good damage, still two useless abilities. Only so good on console because of AA.

    I would definitely not tier him any higher than possibly low B on PC. He's nowhere near as strong as Barik/Yago/Cassie.



  • @Dusklicious how do you move on pc? The letters like W and all that? Sounds like a totally different experience.

    Ive been mopping up with lex now. Got the highest ive gotten in ranked. Which abilities are useless? In pursuit is 900 free damage basically. And the one where you cycle through targets, if you have the card that reveals them, will pick the enemy closest to you.

    The auto aim is nice but you cant rely on it. CD is high and 900 something isnt as much as it seams given its over the span of 1.5 seconds. Great for finishing off targets or if they are in an awkward spot or far away. On console its really just lining up the reticle and strafing to aim. Absurdly easy now that the magnums are auto.


  • PC

    @Christlike said in Tier List for Diamond PC, 4.2 (Commentary will be edited in):

    @Dusklicious how do you move on pc? The letters like W and all that? Sounds like a totally different experience.

    Ive been mopping up with lex now. Got the highest ive gotten in ranked. Which abilities are useless? In pursuit is 900 free damage basically. And the one where you cycle through targets, if you have the card that reveals them, will pick the enemy closest to you.

    A LOT changes on PC, mostly with DPS champs. SOme changes with supports as well. Like eg Cassie is broken on PC but on console she's probably mid tier or worse and Damba is also really strong on PC but not on console. Lex is an example of the opposite, and so are Skye/Tyra.

    In Pursuit on PC barely ever does full damage... It's essentially only useful for confirming kills. As for Retribution it's mainly useful for the talent, and even then I think Death Hastens might still be better on PC.



  • @Dusklicious i don't see how Skye or hit scan like tyra and lex would be worse. Seems like the only downside to pc is movement being awkward cause you're on a keyboard. The aiming is 1000x better im sure. So i can see Cassie being broken on pc and Damba better cause of the aim on mending spirits.



  • @Christlike said in Tier List for Diamond PC, 4.2 (Commentary will be edited in):

    @Dusklicious i don't see how Skye or hit scan like tyra and lex would be worse. Seems like the only downside to pc is movement being awkward cause you're on a keyboard. The aiming is 1000x better im sure. So i can see Cassie being broken on pc and Damba better cause of the aim on mending spirits.

    Skye is not as good on PC due to the mouse allowing for faster reaction. Also, Skye on console is helped by aim assist, so better tracking. Same with Tyra and Lex, aim assist helps them. Also, a lot of flanks and champions such as Cassie are a counter to Tyra, but they are in a rough spot on PC. So she's better on console because of that.

    Lex though needs a nerf for console because oh my God, is that dude broken. So does Skye. Tyra's fine. In theory, if you buff Viktor again, she goes down to A tier.


  • PC

    @Christlike said in Tier List for Diamond PC, 4.2 (Commentary will be edited in):

    @Dusklicious i don't see how Skye or hit scan like tyra and lex would be worse. Seems like the only downside to pc is movement being awkward cause you're on a keyboard. The aiming is 1000x better im sure. So i can see Cassie being broken on pc and Damba better cause of the aim on mending spirits.

    Skye on PC is only useful because of SnD. Not only because as @HeartQueen said, KBM allows for faster reaction, but also because AA makes using her braindead easy whereas on PC she's braindead easy to deal with. Even SnD is barely viable on PC. Skye as a flank on PC is F tier.

    Cassie on PC is lowkey broken... She can three shot reliably with Exaction and she can heal for a quarter of her health pool off of two Dodge Rolls. Even her other two talents are good, but Exaction is now crazy. As for Damba, speed boost plus Gourd CD = good healer. He has the highest potential of all the healers in the game, Corvus is still better though because Double Mark is still very strong and easy. Grover is also really good because his root is one of the if not the best single utility in the game and he has nuts mobility.



  • I always hear about aim assist on console and ive never used it. Didn't even know it existed until i heard people talk about it here. I strafe alot. Strafing is how i aim with lex and skye and really any champ but those two for sure. Just lining up the reticle and move right stick.

    Damba also has 40% lifesteal with anyone in the gourd.

    Lex for real demolishes on console. One of few champs you have to just run from most of the time. Have to really pick your battles with him.



  • @Christlike said in Tier List for Diamond PC, 4.2 (Commentary will be edited in):

    I always hear about aim assist on console and ive never used it. Didn't even know it existed until i heard people talk about it here. I strafe alot. Strafing is how i aim with lex and skye and really any champ but those two for sure. Just lining up the reticle and move right stick.

    Damba also has 40% lifesteal with anyone in the gourd.

    Lex for real demolishes on console. One of few champs you have to just run from most of the time. Have to really pick your battles with him.

    Aim assist is sort of balanced on console itself. Though they should have the option of turning it off for when you want to play projectiles imo. It's really on PC gamepad where it gets to be almost like aimbot.

    Lex's issue is that they didn't nerf his life steal card. Plus, the fix to his base weapon made it so you don't have to keep spamming to shoot your gun, you can simply hold it down.


  • PC

    4.3 Balance Takes (NOTE: Diamond level PC player, made this clear in the thread and some people seem not to understand)

    4.3 Patch Balance.jpg

    4.3 Patch Balance p2.jpg



  • @Dusklicious Some adjustments to your list plus additions of my own with my commentary.

    Item Shop

    • cauterize: increased from 25% scaling to 27% scaling. Scales perfectly with Rejuvenate now
    • resilience: increased scaling from 20% to 25%
    • Master Riding: price reduction from 250-->200
    • Deft Hands: price reduction from 250-->150

    Tanks

    Atlas

    • .7 scaling is a bit too harsh. Maybe nerf to .8 scaling?

    My commentary: Atlas is a bit too strong in the right hands, so a slight nerf could be decent.

    Barik

    • HP further nerfed to 3,500 or 3,600
    • Bowling Ball buff {150|150}-->{200|200} scaling.
    • Double Time buff {50|50}-->{70|70} scaling.
    • Healing Station buff {25|25}-->{30|30} scaling.
    • Tinkering buff: 510-->525
    • One Man's Scrap card rework: Increase your ammo count by {1|1}

    My commentary: Barik was literally meta when he had 3,400 HP. This was because his cards allowed him so much sustain, that he could be a meta point tank with the lowest tank HP. He doesn't need 4,000 HP. He needs a buff to his cards. One man's scrap is bad design imo. It punishes Barik's counters for countering him by giving him more shield and sustain. His old one man's scrap design was shit, but this new one might be a happy medium as a filler card. Barik doesn't have any ammo cards, so why not?

    Inara

    • Mother's Grace: revert all nerfs

    My commentary: Inara wasn't overpowered. The other tanks and cauterize was just too weak. Buffing the other tanks and buffing cauterize is already enough of a nerf.

    Fernando

    • Fireball damage increased from 450-->500
    • Fireball cooldown reduced from 7s-->6s
    • Incinerate card cooldown increased from .4s scaling to .6s scaling
    • Not able to get cauterized during ult

    My commentary: This will help Fernando have more impact in a fight. Instead of being a shield bot with weak damage, he now has a 500 fire ball every 6 seconds. This allows him to do more damage overall, even with Aegis. With Scorch, his 500 damage increases by 30%, which is an extra 150 damage. If he has the Incinerate card at 5, that's 650 damage every 3 seconds, which is great.

    Makoa

    • increase damage from 550-->575
    • Reduce the cooldown of Dredge Anchor from 14s-->13s
    • Barrier Reef is a flat cooldown card that scales by 1s
    • Half Shell talent buff: gets 2,000 extra shielding, cooldown reduced from 14s-->10s

    My commentary: Point tanking doesn't rely on not shooting or shooting to get the cooldown reset.

    Damage

    Strix

    • Fire rate buff from 1.25-->1.1
    • Sniper rifle damage nerfed from 1,200-->1,050

    My commentary: his quick scoping is his identity. The issue is that he did too much damage while quick scoping. This makes it so he does about 2,100 damage in 2.2 seconds, which is in line with other bursty champions for the most part.

    Kinessa

    • ult charge rate nerfed from 50% faster to 25% faster. So increased charge rate during ult from .65s-->.975s

    My commentary: a 2,700 headshot or 1,800 upper body shot in .65 seconds. Enough said. This aims to make Kinessa more fair to fight against.

    Support

    Mal'Damba

    • 340 healing per second buff reverted back to 325 per second
    • Ritual Magic buff: {15|15}-->{50|50} scaling.

    My commentary: Mal'Damba didn't need the healing buff. He healed enough! His issue was that his sustain card was shit. Putting it at 50 scaling puts him in line with other supports. He'll have room for 2 points in Ritual Magic at the most, so that's 400 healing over 400 seconds, which is decent actually.

    Pip

    • Mega Potion: reduces potion cooldown to 6 seconds
    • Mega Potion: reduces bonus healing to 65%
    • Reload card rework: flat cooldown of .6 scaling; no internal cooldown
    • Either: Sturdy reworked into an HP card with 50 scaling, or his base HP is buffed to 2,300

    My commentary: this aims to make Mega Potion Pip much more consistent at the cost of less healing. This puts him in line with Mal'Damba (without Gourd) and Furia Cherish for healing; 1,650 healing every 2.1 seconds after Chronos 3. Also, Pip is the only support without an HP card. Either he needs to be given one, or have the equivalent of 2 HP card points in base kit.

    Io

    • Luna Rush: Reduced from 18s-->15s
    • Lunar Leap: Reduced from 12s-->10s

    My commentary: Io had a string of nerfs to try to bring her from S+ to a more balanced state. Eventually, the fox cap mechanic was nerfed, yet she still has the previous nerfs right now. A few nudges couldn't hurt.

    Ying

    • Illusion healing reworked from 400 ever 1.6s to 250 every 1 second
    • Resonance Replaced with Life Like where illusions can target two people at once, yet the healing is reduced from 250 every second to 200 every second

    My commentary: Ying for the most part is in a decent spot, though the red flag is her base healing is crap (forcing you into Life Exchange), and Resonance is a throw pick that is outclassed in almost every situation by her other talents.

    Jenos

    • Luminary Replaced with a buffed Celestial Touch, 10%-->15% of an ally's hp for immediate healing.
    • Jenos heal duration reduced from 10s-->8s; healing over time increased from 180-->225
    • Jenos damage increased from 108-->117; dps increased from 830-->900
    • Binary Star buffed from 360-->370 damage every .4 seconds (925 dps) with longer range
    • The Power Cosmeum replaced with a double jump for Stellar Wind talent

    My commentary: Jenos was similar to Furia on release. He was an aggro support that could decently heal tanks. He went from that to a flank pocket that hid behind walls. I would like to see a return to his former glory. No more unfair damage amps. No more pockets. No more hiding behind walls. No more throw pick talents (Power Cosmeum).

    Furia

    • Hallowed Sight reworked from giving wrath on beam, to giving ammo when you use your beam.

    My commentary: Hallowed Sight is a bad card because the point of Furia's wrath mechanic is that she heals to gain it. Wrath mechanic encourages Furia to heal if she wants to dps. Hallowed Sight makes it so she doesn't have to heal.

    Flank

    Evie

    • Flicker nerf reverted
    • Great Distance reworked: instead of soar distance time increasing, make this a heal on soar that scales by {75|75} per second.
    • Over the Moon reworked: soar's cooldown is reduced by 5 seconds

    Buck

    • revert nerfs

    Zhin

    • increase counter's cooldown from 7s-->9s
    • revert Billow speed nerf
    • nerf Guillotine from 25%-->15%

    Lex

    • nerf lifesteal card from 10% scaling to 8% scaling


  • @HeartQueen said in Tier List for Diamond PC, 4.2 (Commentary will be edited in):

    Makoa

    • increase damage from 550-->575
    • Reduce the cooldown of Dredge Anchor from 14s-->13s
    • Barrier Reef is a flat cooldown card that scales by 1s
    • Half Shell talent buff: gets 2,000 extra shielding, cooldown reduced from 14s-->10s

    Just got an idea, what if instead of a flat cooldown reduction Barrier Reef reduces the cooldown by 0.4|0.4 each time he hits an enemy with his cannonballs , like Pip's Acrobat Trick or Imani's Cooling Runes and Heat Sink ?
    This way it can be a card that actually requires skills.


  • PC

    @HeartQueen said in Tier List for Diamond PC, 4.2 (Commentary will be edited in):

    @Dusklicious Some adjustments to your list plus additions of my own with my commentary. ....

    If I'm being honest some of these ideas don't impress me, particularly when it comes to the item changes. Also I should note here that I tailored mine specifically so it could fit in one moderately sized patch cycle's worth of balance. (...ed your post for the sake of brevity)

    • Cauterize doesn't need a buff. With Rejuvenate, it wouldn't scale perfectly, but most champs aren't going to use it. It was mostly confined to tanks even when it was too strong.
    • Resil scaling doesn't really bother me that much. Though it could be a good indirect nerf to Atlas which works paired with a later suggestion to tone down the nerf I would want for him, plus BK is apparently really good on SEA where the servers are better, so... ok.
    • Master Riding had its price increased for a reason. Master Riding as is, is still a very strong item late in matches to get to point very quickly and maintain pressure.
    • Problem with Deft Hands has nothing to do with price, way I see it Deft Hands should be removed and replaced with something else, since the concept of it is only useful on 3 champs...

    • Atlas suggestion is ok if paired with the Resilience buff, but without it, I think .7 would be more balanced. The card is really nuts if used properly and it allows Atlas to have Barriers up very consistently. With the resilience buff though it would be fine to leave it at .8 since it would affect him.

    • I support most but not all of these suggestions for Barik. Bowling Ball is okay, Healing Station is fine (pair it rank 4 or 5 with rank 5 of Field Deploy on an Archi build and you should see what I mean), and Scrap should be reworked but I do question giving Barik an ammo card a bit. Ammo on turret death might be interesting, wouldn't break the game. Would be in some sense similar to the TF2 Frontier Justice's workings.

    • Inara's is really just an absoulte must at this point. She's the only bad tank right now, she kind of needs this.

    • As for Fernando's changes, I will just say, uhm... I'm not too sure about giving his fireball that much. As you say, this buff would give him 650 damage every 3 seconds, which sounds great, but the thing is that 650 can turn into almost 2000 if you line up 3 hits, every 3 seconds. This change gives me OB Flanknando vibes and it slightly concerns me.

    • Makoa change is okay but could warrant tweaking to prevent Half Shell from being broken in a different way. With this change Makoa would have 5 second Half Shell shields. Nerf the Barrier Reef suggestion to .8 per rank, so that 5 becomes a 6, which is fine.

    • Strix's rifle is fine where it is. His pistol, though, his pistol is terrible. Even with how ok it is now, rifle still better than pistol 95% of the time if not 100%. There's almost never a reason to use the pistol...

    • Kinessa is in a spot where a slight nerf could be warranted. This isn't the nerf I'd suggest for her, though. True Grit is too strong. Dialing it back to 75 or 80 so it rewards aim but doesn't halfway break Kinessa is good enough. 500 healing off of one shot is stupid.

    • Damba to me doesn't feel like he needs changes. He requires a lot of skill to play well, and is in an okay spot at higher levels and is still weaker in worse hands.

    • Pip is actually pretty fine. Though most of these changes would be ok ideas. Mega Potion change would negate how broken increasing the consistency of his healing would make him in high levels where people know how to play him, I don't entirely know about making Reload flat, but it seems ok. Sturdy change would help him a lot on console, so can support it since it wouldn't break him on PC either.

    • Io change is ok. Giving her more access to utility would flesh her out and make her have somewhat of a reason to be played over Ying. Probably not enough if anything. I'm personally happy to see her suck for once though.

    • Ying idea is actually a really good idea. It would help her get healing numbers and it would give her a reason to use a talent that isn't Life Exchange. Life Like would give her access to pretty solid utility in the form of more bodyblocks.

    • I'm not really liking most of these Jenos suggestions, most egregious is the way you'd reintroduce Celestial Touch. I think something like it SHOULD be in the game, but I'd rather see it have a hybrid scaling to avoid making Jenos being broken in combination with Raum or Yagorath and wouldn't do much for squishies. DPS changes are not necessary at all, Cosmeum change seems okay enough but see that talent still sucking, Heal changes don't really help his healing in any significant way...

      • The way I would do a Celestial Touch re-introduction is to make it have a hybrid scaling. If you don't know what I mean, I'm saying to reallocate some max HP scaling to flat. Something like: 300 + 5% max HP. This would heal an Evie for 390 and a full armor Raum for 725 instead of 270 for Evie and 1275 for full armor Raum.
    • I mean okay I guess on the Furia idea, but that would be a pretty sizeable nerf to Exterminate which seems to be okay enough. Could work off-support but nobody's really tried it yet because off-supports aren't meta.

    • Going through all the flank ideas in one dot, Over the Moon = Tank Evie now; Buck was nerfed for a reason, though he could use something; Zhin change is okay (even if not entirely needed) though Counter may be slightly overnerfed here; Lex change is ok because he probably needs it for console though Lex is meh on PC.


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