Done with rejuvenate(rage)



  • @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Done with rejuvenate(rage):

    I don't think there is a support below 1K/sec then, except Jenos. Kindle Soul does 1000+400 heal +15% of the HP with Cherish. Thats 1900/sec on a hypothetical 1 second cooldown. Blossom does 800+300 with rampant blooming, and so on.

    Kindle Soul heals 1400 over 2s, even with Cherish it'd become only 805 hps, how did you get 1900 ?
    Maybe I wasn't much clear when explaining "no cooldowns": for instantaneous abilities (Potion, Blossom, Life exchange, etc.) I considered only 1s of "cast" time, for over-time abilities (Cherish, Restore Soul, Abyssal Reconstruction, Totem, etc.) I considered the cooldown to be ready again as soon as the healing ends, for resource abilities (Moonlight, Spirit's Domain) I considered them to have infinite resource.
    The idea was to be able to constantly use the healing, not overlapping multiple uses of the abilities at once.



  • @HeartQueen said in Done with rejuvenate(rage):

    You also miss that there are ways to mitigate damage. Shields, damage reduction, cover, increased healing, etc. You also have to factor in good and bad supports.

    But then I could also consider ways to mitigate healing, such as reverse cover (if you know what I mean), bursts, healing reduction abilities, etc. It would be very hard to factor everything in, that's why I made the compromise of not considering anything outside of the healing/primary fire themselves and tried to equalize their uptime as much as possible.
    I never meant this argument to be as accurate as possible, just wanted to say "I consider healing overall to be weaker than damage so I disagree to call it overwhelming".

    An old game had Ying getting 415k healing in 22 minutes when cauterize was 90%. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix_8EtmPTPs&ab_channel=PaladinsCompetitive Frzgod had 324k damage, and was the highest damage in that same match.

    Oh, come on, those are all pro players and Ying had three people with rejuvenate, of witch two where tanks, of which one was a Mother Grace Inara. Even with old Cauterize, that's a pretty ideal situation to get big numbers, it cannot be an example of an average match. 😅



  • Just got done looking at some results of grand master games, and I did not see any use of rejuvenate...js

    PS, the intent was to vent about healers who focus DPS, and it turns out I learned rejuvenate is a waste of credits. Thanks for the more articulate evidence presented!


  • PC

    @D3L1R10U5 said in Done with rejuvenate(rage):

    Just got done looking at some results of grand master games, and I did not see any use of rejuvenate...js

    Because Rejuvenate is not a good item. The scaling is pitiful. Before its nerf it was meta on pretty much every tank, and in fact not picking it up for main/mid tanks was essentially throwing.



  • @SomeGuySomeWhere said in Done with rejuvenate(rage):

    @HeartQueen said in Done with rejuvenate(rage):

    You also miss that there are ways to mitigate damage. Shields, damage reduction, cover, increased healing, etc. You also have to factor in good and bad supports.

    But then I could also consider ways to mitigate healing, such as reverse cover (if you know what I mean), bursts, healing reduction abilities, etc. It would be very hard to factor everything in, that's why I made the compromise of not considering anything outside of the healing/primary fire themselves and tried to equalize their uptime as much as possible.
    I never meant this argument to be as accurate as possible, just wanted to say "I consider healing overall to be weaker than damage so I disagree to call it overwhelming".

    An old game had Ying getting 415k healing in 22 minutes when cauterize was 90%. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix_8EtmPTPs&ab_channel=PaladinsCompetitive Frzgod had 324k damage, and was the highest damage in that same match.

    Oh, come on, those are all pro players and Ying had three people with rejuvenate, of witch two where tanks, of which one was a Mother Grace Inara. Even with old Cauterize, that's a pretty ideal situation to get big numbers, it cannot be an example of an average match. 😅

    Average matches had 10k healing per minute as the standard for high elo games. And yes high elo games, because you can't balance around the average Gold player. You balance around high elo. In high elo, supports got high healing numbers. There are other examples. Look at old PaladinsTube and Paladins Competitive matches. They show Platinum and above elo games. https://www.youtube.com/c/PaladinsTube/playlists Several players, even in Platinum, got high healing numbers despite cauterize being at 90%



  • @SomeGuySomeWhere said in Done with rejuvenate(rage):

    Kindle Soul heals 1400 over 2s, even with Cherish it'd become only 805 hps, how did you get 1900 ?

    It's 1000 immediately plus 400 over 2s. The additional 15% heal of Cherish is another 750 on a 5K HP tank. 1000+200+750=1950 heal in the first second.



  • @HeartQueen said in Done with rejuvenate(rage):

    They nerfed wrecker wrong tbh. The issue was that wrecker was too weak early game at 75% and too strong late game at 225% Instead of changing everything, they should've changed wrecker scaling. 100/125/150 would've been great.

    But then everyone would pick wrecker 1 at the start. A cheap level 1 item with 100% bonus would be a must pick. I think it was the idea to make shields more effective overall.

    @HeartQueen said in Done with rejuvenate(rage):

    And yes high elo games, because you can't balance around the average Gold player.

    You can't if you have a pro player scene. If you have no pro-player scene, you can balance around the average gold player. After all this is your cash-cow.



  • @M3RC3N4RI0 said in Done with rejuvenate(rage):

    @HeartQueen said in Done with rejuvenate(rage):

    They nerfed wrecker wrong tbh. The issue was that wrecker was too weak early game at 75% and too strong late game at 225% Instead of changing everything, they should've changed wrecker scaling. 100/125/150 would've been great.

    But then everyone would pick wrecker 1 at the start. A cheap level 1 item with 100% bonus would be a must pick. I think it was the idea to make shields more effective overall.

    @HeartQueen said in Done with rejuvenate(rage):

    And yes high elo games, because you can't balance around the average Gold player.

    You can't if you have a pro player scene. If you have no pro-player scene, you can balance around the average gold player. After all this is your cash-cow.

    Do shields need to be more effective overall though? I don't think so. I don't want an Overwatch meta where you just shoot at shields all game. I also don't mind wrecker being a must pick for dps against shield comps. Better than being a useless pick against shields. Of course there should be balance. I don't think it should make shields completely useless late game, hence the wrecker 3 nerf. I don't want to shoot at shields for 10+ seconds, but I also don't want my shield to melt in less than a second if I'm Barik. There needs to be balance.

    Also, still no to the balance around Gold. Balance around the new high elo players. Such as Diamond+ If something can be countered in Diamond+ elo, there is counter play, which means it isn't bs to go against. If something is weak in Gold elo but strong in Diamond+ elo, don't buff it. That means it's strong, it's just that Gold players don't have the skill to use it.



  • @HeartQueen said in Done with rejuvenate(rage):

    Do shields need to be more effective overall though?

    Does everything make sense that Hirez does? 😄



  • I have to change my position on rejuv a little. I have noticed some healers ignore healing me when I dont have the item purchased, then when I buy it, then all of a sudden I get noticed. So, IMO, some times buying the item perk is worth it if makes the healer happy.



  • @D3L1R10U5 said in Done with rejuvenate(rage):

    I have to change my position on rejuv a little. I have noticed some healers ignore healing me when I dont have the item purchased, then when I buy it, then all of a sudden I get noticed. So, IMO, some times buying the item perk is worth it if makes the healer happy.

    Sounds like low elo support players. Like, it's at best a 4th buy when there is nothing else. Though due to how nerfed it is, it's not worth it in most cases. Like the tank item buys are: cauterize, resil, blast/haven, and nimble. Map/kit dependent includes: Master Riding, Morale Boost, and Chronos. Then if you don't need either of the above, you get Rejuvenate.


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