Some changes to make the game less frustrating



  • STRIX

    Devs made the same mistake again, ignore OP burst and nerf survivability. They got rid of DR strix and nerfed swap speed, but the problematic burst is still untouched, he can still two shot squishy with very low skill required. (Ah also...the DR card is now even more OP because it gains 10% ult charge for every bodyshot you hit, but I'm pretty sure it will be nerfed or changed again).
    The problem must be solved as soon as possible!

    Bodyshot damage must be lower, strix is an unskilled bodyshot machine that doesn't even have to worry about headshots cause bodyshots are more than enough.
    Generally bolt action snipers reward you for headshots, but strix is just a joke!
    Damage 1200 --> 800.

    Hitboxes are problematic as well, they're way too large and buggy, you can't even excape or hide because strix is going to snipe you through a wall or shoot at the spot you were before dashing and still do damage.
    How many times it happened??
    You dash as andro, meave or evie, strix doesn't flick his visual to where you move, he just shoot at the location you were before dashing and kills you.
    This needs a fix!

    Unauthorized use... maybe it will become more fair with a bodyshot nerf so I wouldn't touch it.
    The problem is that the talent still performs better than crack shot and nocturnal.
    Let me suggest some changes.

    Crack shot: will also gain 40% lifesteal on pistol if you hit a shot with scope.

    Nocturnal: will also delete the initial cost when you enter in stealth.

    LIAN

    Fighting against her is still frustrating and unfun. Her burst combos are very easy to land because of her aimbot skills, she also has a ton of burst, consistent damage and an OP ultimate.

    Valor REWORK SUGGESTION #1

    Shoot a powerful burst of compressed air that deals 400 damage and knocks enemies in the air.
    Effective at very short range
    7 sec cooldown

    Valor REWORK SUGGESTION #2

    Shoot a projectile that deals 600 damage and explodes in an AOE. The projectile drops after traveling some distance in the air (like bk, damba or meave)

    GRACE.
    No longer deals damage

    EMINENCE.
    Bonus damage 50 --> 35%

    ALARACITY rework
    Valor will also deal self knockback

    CASSIE

    Damage 680 --> 650
    Projectile speed reduced

    Big game.
    Reduce the cooldown of dodge roll by 2.5

    Talents are a fun mechanic that should stay in the game because they provide different playstyles.
    But in cassie's case you simply deal more damage with every talent. The new big game will introduce a flanky/risky playstyle that we already saw 2 years ago, the infinite roll one.
    However back in the day cassie could have this playstyle only by using a card. She could also get bonus damage so she wasn't that balanced.

    WILLO

    After her mobility buffs the became a really safe pick, she can play really aggressively with a really low skill requirement.
    The mobility buff was fine, the cooldown buff is ok too... but the DR makes her really hard to kill and all that easy spammable burst is a problem too.
    REDUCE AOE
    Slightly increase fire rate
    Nerf/Rework the DR card

    Soon I'll make a megathread about balancement, a lot of suggestions with the goal to increase ttk, make some character slightly harder to play, delete healbot playstyle, NERF OFF TANK'S DAMAGE and make characters more mobile.
    But for now I wanted to introduce the most problematic aspects that must be fixed as soon as possible.



  • @Driggydrug
    Strix: 33% nerf seems like a bit much. I would suggest to first nerf the dmg to 1000 and see How he performs. For crack shot, he already has a card that gives him lifesteal for hitting people with his sniper. I Also like your idea about nocturnal.

    Lian: i don't play her, so can't comment

    Cassie: i agree with your changes, But i think exaction should be changed to your idea to avoid multiple talents for the same ability. Then big Game Could be changed to something that gives Cassie more cc; like swaping the knockback for a stun, for example.

    Willo: i have not played her since her change, so can't comment.

    Other: before you make the other thread i would suggest that you don't compleatly remove the healbot playstyle for every champion, as it can be good for players that are new to the role. And some people find it fun.



  • @Leafstorm said in Needed changes to make the game less frustrating:

    Other: before you make the other thread i would suggest that you don't compleatly remove the healbot playstyle for every champion, as it can be good for players that are new to the role. And some people find it fun.

    Yea people should be allowed to play like healbots, it's ok to have different playstyles.
    All I want is remove it from basekit, thing that should happen only with a ttk increase.
    Supports were changed in ob68 just to compensate the big amount of burst damage.... even with more HP and less healing , supports will be forced to play like healing-statues.
    Heals and self heals right now are very important to counter the amount of damage that so many characters deal.



  • @Driggydrug

    There are other champions to nerf:

    Drogoz: he can stay in the air 8 hours and spamming missile, this need to be changed asap

    Strix: is way to easy shooting from a very very close range and than pistol spam

    Talus: saint god i hate this little kid... Teleporting, fast attack and 4500 of damage... (And he's not a damage champions..,)Need a huge nerf

    And there are more...


  • PC

    almost all your changes would turn these champs even more op

    strix shouldn't be able to no scope, and his damage should be depending on range

    lian should see her ult nerfed before everything else

    cassie just need to have blast shot counted as a shot so you can't have this high burst on her

    willo simply need some unbuff on her ult, and the damage reduction card to be removed



  • All Supports should have their healing buffed three hundred percent. The last couple of nights, while playing Team Deathmatch, a teammate's Support was working on overdrive and could not heal the team fast enough. All of the time, while I was at one end of each map and they were at the other, their heals could never reach me. Luckily, if I didn't manage to self -heal (slap on a bandage), I would have died more often.

    And speaking about self-healing, can be buffed two hundred percent, or at least nerf the power of all character's autofire weapons? Man, I hate having to rely on another person to not die in a game.

    No one hundred people will agree on the same buffs and nerfs of every Champion. That is a fact.

    Our game is alive and ever changing. It will always change.

    Seriously, I do believe the strengths and weaknesses of each character is always changing to suit new characters, new maps snd new challenges. And I also believe that it is up to the players to figure out how to work with those changes via the characters they play and how they play with their teams. Once we get used to how a favorite character works, don't get used to it as it may change with new additions to the game. I've seen teams with the "strongest" characters lose and the teams with the "weakest" chgaracters win. And I've seen it reversed. What made the difference? The players, you and me. How we played and interacted with our teammates. How we communicated. And our personal skill and ecperience with out characters and their roles within the game.

    I may be in the minority, or even the only person who believes this, but we are the balance.

    We are the balance.



  • STRIX
    Rifle - 1000 Damage
    In a power fantasy sense... you may have a fancy gun... but a longbow should hit just as hard.

    LIAN
    Attack abilities consume ammo.
    Grace does not fire if out of ammo, can reaload during grace.
    If it is a weapon ability it should use ammo and be used to dictate how long you can maintain fire.
    Valour deals 150 damage and Burns for 100 dam/sec for 2.5s (250).
    To interrupt the speed of Lians Burst Damage while granting Lian a brief DoT reveal move to pressure peaking and track targets .


  • PC

    @Driggydrug

    TBH, I don't like topics that talk about making changes to multiple champions. It gets jumbled up real quick. Each champion should be in a separate topic.

    I'm not singling you out - there are others doing the same. You are just the lucky recipient of this comment.


  • PC

    I don't like threads that say "NEEDED" or "NECESSARY" changes. It sounds really arrogant, and rubs me the wrong way.



  • I would like to see non hitscan snipers with high charge-up/reload times.

    The problem with strix's talon rifle is it's hitscan, instant shot with full damage, and the firing rate is too fast.

    If they made strix's talon rifle like the sniper rifle in realm royale, that would be interesting and skill based. A projectile sniper rifle with projectile drop and 3 seconds between each shot would definitely balance strix, in return he should do more damage like 1400 but it would definitely be a skill shot and there would be a real punishment for missing.

    Both strix and kinessa can snipe too fast. Strix just needs 1 second and kinessa can fire again almost instantly but with reduced damage. Snipers are supposed to have low firing rates.



  • @Dusklicious said in Needed changes to make the game less frustrating:

    I don't like threads that say "NEEDED" or "NECESSARY" changes. It sounds really arrogant, and rubs me the wrong way.

    Changed thread name, is it better now??



  • @AYYDIMITRI said in Needed changes to make the game less frustrating

    LIAN
    Attack abilities consume ammo.
    Grace does not fire if out of ammo, can reaload during grace.
    If it is a weapon ability it should use ammo and be used to dictate how long you can maintain fire.
    Valour deals 150 damage and Burns for 100 dam/sec for 2.5s (250).
    To interrupt the speed of Lians Burst Damage while granting Lian a brief DoT reveal move to pressure peaking and track targets .

    Lian can have max 13 ammo, your changes wouldn't do much to her.
    The problem is the aimbot, She can literally deal free 800 damage just by pressing two buttons, no matter where the target moves, no matter where you aim... you still have spammable free damage with really low cooldowns.
    Seriously, why is auto-aim a thing in an FPS?? Devs said that ruckus and buck are not healthy for the game so they shouldn't be META again (such a stupid thing to say... isn't the goal of "balancement" to make every character, card, talent and mechanic VIABLE at the same way?)
    But ofc characters like lian and strix, that can deal free damage without even aiming, are healthy for the game right??
    They defend lian and cassie with the excuse: ItS nOt FaiR to KiLl ChArAcTerS ThAt PeOpLe LoVe1... well then why did you kill and ingore characters like MOJI, SKYE, BUCK, RUCKUS and KOGA?? People don't love them?

    And I think that 1000 damage is still not enough for strix, mobility is still really crippled, hitboxes are broken and squishies really fragile... after 1/2 shots the team would still be able to finish the target.
    Strix's bodyshot damage is way too high, he doesn't have to reload or change his shots, he just aims at the body and get free kills.



  • @Speppo82 said in Some changes to make the game less frustrating:

    @Driggydrug
    Drogoz: he can stay in the air 8 hours and spamming missile, this need to be changed asap

    Wyrm jets (the talent that makes you stay a lot of time in the air) will be nerfed next patch, 25% of it will go in drogoz's basekit because, let's be honest, drogoz without that talent (or even with wyrm jets imo) is the easiest thing to kill... but wyrm jets will become a complete throwpick, no more fast recharge, I tried it on pts, I literally can't see the difference between wyrm and another talent.
    Y'all happy now?

    @TangAce
    more op?? How? xd
    It seems that you want to disagree with everything I say on this forums.
    I just nerfed numbers and reworked abilities.
    In strix's case I lowered the bodyshot damage to make him a little harder to play instead of a dumb bodyshot machine.
    I buffed his 2 talents to put them in line with the flare one.
    Also... noscope aren't the problem, he has insane inaccuracy without scope. Damage fall off?? Would be a great idea but he is a sniper, he is build for long range, he would become less powerful at range but still unflankable because of his insane damage. (Or maybe I misunderstodd and you want to make him like grover?? That would be great but still too easy to play because of insane bodyshots) .

    Cmon people, all theese downvotes just because you won't be able to twoshots every squishy without even aiming at the head??

    For lian I replaced her aimbot with something else... but it's just a suggestion, I don't want the exact thing I said to happen, it's just an idea, then hirez will know what to do. However the point is : GET RID OF AUTOAIM.
    Her ult was already nerfed, it's still a problem because you can't dodge it with that extra-big-noob-proof hitbox that hits everything.

    For cassie I nerfed dmg, nerfed projectile speed and no more melting tanks with big game (tanks will be nerfed soon so we must get rid of big game as well). I dont think that the new big game will be broken... no bonus damage, lower dmg and slower projectile.
    Blast shot consuming ammo is an ok change but it won't absolutely reduce the effectivness of her combo, high damage is still there until you don't reduce it :pp

    Same with willo, no more dr and insane aoe... how can she become even more OP??
    And why nerfing an ultimate that it's already very easy to counter? When I see willo ulting I have fun bullying her with every mobile character or long range damagers. It's so satisfying, she literally screams : "KILL ME" lmao.

    @DaddyOoker it was the point of the thread, "annoying things that should be fixed", a small list of annoying characters that should have some nerfs/reworks.
    Only quality content from driggy bois :pp
    There is always a lot of study and commitment behind by threads.
    Don't forget that they're only suggestions, I don't really want everything to happen, I just gave some ideas and clarified the main problems.
    Then hirez will decide what to do.


  • PC

    @Driggydrug
    I'm not even gonna argue with you anymore, if you can't see how your changes would affect the game...

    and I totally hate strix, he's on my number 5 most hated champ list lol

    I love how people call lian autoaim lol, lex is autoaim, lian is aoe, you don't need to aim that's true, but like dredge doesn't need to aim either, even willo can just shoot around people and it will hit, plus lian dash you gotta aim a bit

    the only things that can kill ulting willo rn are strix and maeve, maybe nessa but way harder cause charge time

    and I never said I wanted blast shot to consume ammo, but to be counted as a shot, so there can't be combo, you know like there is a delay between 2 shots, so if blast is counted as a shot there is a delay as well

    also if you wanna just remove cassie from the game with your changes you can simply say it

    anyway you can't understand that the first thing to get nerfed are all these power tanks

    you didn't even understand my point on strix, really I don't know how to explain things if you can't understand what, damage based on range means, it's like the opposite of falloff
    and if you think noscopes ain't a problem them you probably never tried to flank a strix with a squishy, these wonderful noscope headshots on evie feels sooooo good, you get to close to him, he simply press a button and you die, no skill nor aim required


  • Moderator

    The reworks for Lian and Cassie? I disagree with.
    As I always say, all you need to do is set a grace period between Lian's cooldown eliminations so it isn't a constant spam, and make their abilities cost ammo, because pretty much every other champion in the game has this.


  • PC

    @DaddyOoker it was the point of the thread, "annoying things that should be fixed", a small list of annoying characters that should have some nerfs/reworks.
    Only quality content from driggy bois :pp
    There is always a lot of study and commitment behind by threads.
    Don't forget that they're only suggestions, I don't really want everything to happen, I just gave some ideas and clarified the main problems.
    Then hirez will decide what to do.

    I understand and appreciate the intent of it and the amount of effort that goes into this stuff. IMO, it's easier to discuss a single champion at a time and I expect that if an official actually looks at it he would find it easier to see points and counterpoints about a specific champion easier as well.

    PS: I think that arrogant comment was out of line. I took your original title as a display of frustration.



  • @TangAce said in Some changes to make the game less frustrating:

    @Driggydrug
    I'm not even gonna argue with you anymore, if you can't see how your changes would affect the game...

    I could say the same for your changes, but we're not here to argue like crybabies.
    How would my changes affect the game?? If you played paladins in 2017 you would know. Basically everything I say on theese forums are suggestions to make paladins more similar to 2 years ago... high ttk and fast, hard to play characters. Nothing of what I say could possibly kill or ruin the game (which is already in a bad state), it would just turn it into a more competitive paladins, which had way better stats, more avg.players and very high peaks (the highest one was 60000 while now it's 20000) than the current casual one.

    and I totally hate strix, he's on my number 5 most hated champ list lol

    What a great thing to hear 🙂

    I love how people call lian autoaim lol, lex is autoaim, lian is aoe, you don't need to aim that's true, but like dredge doesn't need to aim either, even willo can just shoot around people and it will hit, plus lian dash you gotta aim a bit

    Mmhh... hitscan shots that hit a random target in your F.O.V. , what a weird AOE 🤔
    With willo and dredge you have projectiles, you have to predict where the target moves to DEAL FULL DAMAGE , in case the projectile explodes near the target it would deal damage in a small AREA OF EFFECT. With lian there is no projectile with travel time, no direct hits or area of effect... they're just weapon shots that hits everyone is your fov, it's different than AOE.
    The only things that you have to aim with lian are weapon shots and presence, even a guy with 10 hours on paladins could make burst combos as lian.

    the only things that can kill ulting willo rn are strix and maeve, maybe nessa but way harder cause charge time

    Androxus can reach her with nether step and outdamage her (Did it many times as androxus)
    Drogoz and evie can get close and kill her quickly with decent aim
    What about strix lul??
    Lian, shalin and cassie can burst her down at range.
    And why are you even complaining about an ULTIMATE?? It's supposed to be strong like many other gamechanging ults : King bomb and overpowered are two examples.
    Fae flight is strong but has also lot of cons.

    and I never said I wanted blast shot to consume ammo, but to be counted as a shot, so there can't be combo, you know like there is a delay between 2 shots, so if blast is counted as a shot there is a delay as well

    My mistake, I didn't get it. Great suggestion but I don't think it would fix the insane amount of damage she deals at every range with semihitscan arrows.

    also if you wanna just remove cassie from the game with your changes you can simply say it

    Looks like someone has become a little salty lol. Instead of crying why don't you check the changelog and realize that CASSIE USED TO BE A BROKEN A** CHARACTER EVEN WITH 30 LESS DAMAGE AND PROJECTILES THAT ACTUALLY REQUIRED AIM??
    Sorry for caps.
    Cassie (before ob68 I think) used to deal 650 damage and she has always been a strong character. Tbh I don't remember a patch where cassie dropped below A in tierlists. She has always been a good pick ffs.
    But ofc 30 less damage is going to kill her right?? You went from saying that my suggestions would make her even more OP to saying that I want to kill her lmao.

    anyway you can't understand that the first thing to get nerfed are all these power tanks

    That's great, off tanks really need a damage nerf. They're literally damage dealers with more HP, sustain and CC.

    you didn't even understand my point on strix, really I don't know how to explain things if you can't understand what, damage based on range means, it's like the opposite of falloff

    Calm down ffs, your're being a little too oppressive here, I even said that I could have missunderstood.
    I know what's the difference between fall-off and damage scaling on range, I just didn't get how you said it , everyone makes mistakes right?? Anyways, I said that before, damage based on range would be a great idea, I hope this would happen along with an hitbox fix.

    and if you think noscopes ain't a problem them you probably never tried to flank a strix with a squishy, these wonderful noscope headshots on evie feels sooooo good, you get to close to him, he simply press a button and you die, no skill nor aim required

    I don't know what strix have you faced to being always hitted by noscopes lmao.
    Maybe that strix was the luckiest man alive or an hacker, it's impossible to hit noscopes unless you're really close to an enemy
    Noscopes are based on luck due to incredibly large spread , even at close range it's very rare to hit them. Or maybe you're confusing noscopes with quickscopes, idk.
    (I would never get close to strix as evie. She has so much poke, you can hit shots even at medium range... then if you use your abilties well you're doing great)



  • @DaddyOoker said in Some changes to make the game less frustrating:

    @DaddyOoker
    PS: I think that arrogant comment was out of line. I took your original title as a display of frustration.

    What arrogant comment?? If you tell me I'll edit it 🙂 ... anyways, sorry if I looked arrogant and also sorry for the original title, I edited it 😛


  • PC

    @Driggydrug said in Some changes to make the game less frustrating:

    @DaddyOoker said in Some changes to make the game less frustrating:

    @DaddyOoker
    PS: I think that arrogant comment was out of line. I took your original title as a display of frustration.

    What arrogant comment?? If you tell me I'll edit it 🙂 ... anyways, sorry if I looked arrogant and also sorry for the original title, I edited it 😛

    I was referring to the one that made you change the title. Wasn't from my or your comment.



  • @Driggydrug said in Some changes to make the game less frustrating:

    @AYYDIMITRI said in Needed changes to make the game less frustrating

    LIAN
    Attack abilities consume ammo.
    Grace does not fire if out of ammo, can reaload during grace.
    If it is a weapon ability it should use ammo and be used to dictate how long you can maintain fire.
    Valour deals 150 damage and Burns for 100 dam/sec for 2.5s (250).
    To interrupt the speed of Lians Burst Damage while granting Lian a brief DoT reveal move to pressure peaking and track targets .

    Lian can have max 13 ammo, your changes wouldn't do much to her.
    The problem is the aimbot, She can literally deal free 800 damage just by pressing two buttons, no matter where the target moves, no matter where you aim... you still have spammable free damage with really low cooldowns.
    Seriously, why is auto-aim a thing in an FPS?? Devs said that ruckus and buck are not healthy for the game so they shouldn't be META again (such a stupid thing to say... isn't the goal of "balancement" to make every character, card, talent and mechanic VIABLE at the same way?)
    But ofc characters like lian and strix, that can deal free damage without even aiming, are healthy for the game right??
    They defend lian and cassie with the excuse: ItS nOt FaiR to KiLl ChArAcTerS ThAt PeOpLe LoVe1... well then why did you kill and ingore characters like MOJI, SKYE, BUCK, RUCKUS and KOGA?? People don't love them?

    And I think that 1000 damage is still not enough for strix, mobility is still really crippled, hitboxes are broken and squishies really fragile... after 1/2 shots the team would still be able to finish the target.
    Strix's bodyshot damage is way too high, he doesn't have to reload or change his shots, he just aims at the body and get free kills.

    Oh his changes would definitely make a difference cuz her OP talents are full card dependent and no one would be stupid enough to go for 13 ammo unless players are on Precision which is a card that is viable but low tier cuz its overshadowed by her other 2 talents. This change would make the card more needed and help either reduce the card lvl on elim resets and Eminence cooldown reduction on player loadouts or make her card sustain lackluster. It would be better if her ammo gets reduced by 1 or 2 along with it but the changes he proposed are better than nothing. alacrity hits everyone but isnt that op on burst tbh cuz it slightly uses her mobility. Id just make it so that it no longer counts as weapon attack so that it cant caut ppl.


  • PC

    @Driggydrug

    how would it affect the game? well it wouldn't be paladins anymore, paladins isn't a game with huge mobility, it has mobility yes, it's not damn overwatch lol, but it's not tribes either

    except that willo or dredge deal way more than 400 dmg lol, and that it's not on a 8sec cooldown
    lian is only good because of her ult and presence tbh not cause autoaim

    mmmmh, you truly manage to kill a heaven 3 willo during her ult with andro? he's my most played champ, I can maybe get her low life with some luck, nothing more

    willo has a way easier time hitting a drogoz or evie while in ult than they can hit her due to projectile speed, drogoz ult is useless since willo's ult is as fast lul and that she can shoot while moving

    as I said strix does counter willo, but she can still hide or wit till strix dies, or even focus him instantly so he dies

    cassie and sha are projectile, no way you can hit her more than she does, and lian has too much falloff at this range, hit 150 while willo hits 800 lul

    I'm complaining because this ult is too strong, the only thing you can do is hide and pray she doesn't find you, any other ult is avoidable or counterable, especially strong ults like this one, only strix and cassie can't be countered, but it's not an ult killing an entire team on his own

    beside strix I can't think of anything countering willo's ult

    cassie does require aim, most new players do shit with her for that reason, even saw people complaining that she was one of the starting champs but lian is way easier
    she has always been broken that's true, but you can't compare now and ob68 on a single champ, things were different, she was a good pick compared to other champs, if you nerf her that much now, she'll become the next imani or sha (also I was talking about strix and lian's suggestion, your cassie one would kill her) big game is fine as it is right now, tanks have shields and can take cover for the duration of the buff, ofc you'll take at least one shot mid air, but most people outside of pro are using blast shot, and anyway the combo is what makes her so strong, cause like lian it counters most flanks and other damages

    about no scopes, I have played some casual without scoping even once, I was able to win at least half my 1v1 situations...there is a range at which your noscope can't miss, and a range at which it's very unlikely to miss, I remember some great evie ulting me, and I just turned around 1shot from death, out of reflex I press a button and she dies cause of dumb luck...
    and I'm not confusing, even if quickscopes at close range are unmissable and bullshit lol, but when I die to strix I usually watch the replay to understand what happened

    and about offtanks, khan need a rework on bullet's storm, koa need hook fix, torv need global rework (cause he's either op or useless depending on the patch...) and atlas need to go **** himself into the abyss and disappear from paladins forever, seriously send him back to the future and make him stays there so we don't see him back soon


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