Where is the End of the Burst Meta?



  • @Peinzius said in Where is the End of the Burst Meta?:

    I'm also not saying healers themselves are more overpowered or anything like that. I'm saying the healing they have is. Whether or not they're healbots, have no survivability etc doesn't really matter. Their healing has increased and increased, to be a large contributor to burst meta.

    This is true, we can't argue about that.
    Healing was increased a lot to compensate the low ttk/burst meta/low mobility etc etc.
    Every patch after ob68 was focussed on promoting healbot playstyle.
    First ob68 with HP nerfs (some healers like grover went from like 2800 hp to 2300) and card buffs and then every patch after furia release increased healing output

    Grover received more range and more heals
    Grohk spirit domain reworked
    Ying LE reworked
    Jenos burst healing increased
    Seris restore soul buffed
    Furia was released
    Pip combat medic reworked and healing potion buffed.

    Damn evilmojo's balancement is so bad


  • PC

    rework strix
    rework tyra
    rework cat burglar
    rework impulse
    rework luminary
    rework torv
    nerf atlas, khan, koa
    nerf willo
    make grohk and pip true supports and not dmg
    rework skye
    rework moji
    rework burst mode

    then of course we'd need some buffs
    andro's mobility
    koga
    nando/ruckus/term

    make the support less dependent on talents (bit like seris who can use either 3 of her talents regardless, and not like pip who can only heal with MP)



  • @Peinzius said in Where is the End of the Burst Meta?:

    d3306b72-8d74-432d-88c9-4187b6fab0f7-image.png

    Here's what I mean. As you can see, there has been a general increase in healing for almost every character. Ying's ridiculous OB 44 healing, which made her the best champion at the time, is now quite average. Ying herself has been about that amount for the last number of patches.

    Grohk has quite a lot of fluctuation and is really the only exception to the rule, however like Pip this may be due to people preferring to pick damage Grohk over healing Grohk during certain patches. If Maelstrom is really popular one patch, then naturally his healing would decrease.

    I'm also not saying healers themselves are more overpowered or anything like that. I'm saying the healing they have is. Whether or not they're healbots, have no survivability etc doesn't really matter. Their healing has increased and increased, to be a large contributor to burst meta.

    That was I am trying to say. The healing itself is the same, there is no more OP Lifelike Ying or early Jenos healing type of heals.
    But support today must spend most of their time healing as much as possible as soon as their cool down allow them. Hence the increase of healing number across the board.

    Their healing has increased and increased, to be a large contributor to burst meta.

    Healing number growth itself is a by product of the TTK. Supports have to heal as much as possible to keep their team alive. Increase the TTK and the heal number will drop as less team members need urgent care.

    This means support players are doing their best to keep the TTK as high as they could. Nerfing heal across the board will crash this delicate balance
    (and HR did try nerfing heal several times, it didn't work out, the champions they tested it on become obsolete immediately)
    https://www.thebettermeta.com/charts/individual_champion_performance/
    click on popularity, you can see exactly where they nerf heal healing for each champion and exactly where they buff heal to make the champion viable again. The only champion isn't fluctuating too much is Damba, consistent with his changelog where no changes to his heals were touch.

    Whether or not they're healbots

    This is actually play a factor, as heal bots spend their whole time to heal, hence increases healing numbers. Healing numbers becoming very high just show healbots is the only correct way for support to be play. (except for Grohk as healer Grohk is a rarity among rarity) you can look up the bettermeta chart and check damage done tab. Even Seris who was a designated healbot from the beginning, has her damage output going down (except Grohk & Pip)



  • @Gao-Shun said in Where is the End of the Burst Meta?:

    This is actually play a factor, as heal bots spend their whole time to heal, hence increases healing numbers. Healing numbers becoming very high just show healbots is the only correct way for support to be play. (except for Grohk as healer Grohk is a rarity among rarity) you can look up the bettermeta chart and check damage done tab. Even Seris who was a designated healbot from the beginning, has her damage output going down (except Grohk & Pip)

    Healbot isn't how supports should be. Healbot is the consequence of low ttk, big heals etc etc...
    Let's say that the ttk will finally be restored, no more OP burst, higher HP for everyone, more mobility for everyone, HEAVEN AND BLAST SHIELDS unnerf... with fairly high ttk, healing won't be as necessary as it is now, so supports won't be forced to spend the entire game only on healing. (And caut won't be a must anymore)
    They'll have more HP, better excapes, they will be able to defend and excape from flankers... their damage won't be increased ofc but they will finally stop being bursted down by OP burst.
    Right now the team doesn't protect the healbot, he dies, and without healer no big heals.

    Idk what do you mean for healbot but for me an healbot is a character that can heal a lot but can't excape and survive from flankers because he's really fragile and he must be protected.
    You fix this problem just by increasing healer's survivability, increasing their damage isn't needed.



  • @Driggydrug said in Where is the End of the Burst Meta?:

    Healbot isn't how supports should be. Healbot is the consequence of low ttk, big heals etc etc...
    Let's say that the ttk will finally be restored, no more OP burst, higher HP for everyone, more mobility for everyone, HEAVEN AND BLAST SHIELDS unnerf... with fairly high ttk, healing won't be as necessary as it is now, so supports won't be forced to spend the entire game only on healing. (And caut won't be a must anymore)

    yes, that's exactly my point. Peinzius said healing is buffed alot from the old days, but I stand by healing wasn't buffed (too much) but these days support spends more time healing instead of doing other things. Hence the healing number increases

    They'll have more HP, better excapes, they will be able to defend and excape from flankers... their damage won't be increased ofc but they will finally stop being bursted down by OP burst.
    Right now the team doesn't protect the healbot, he dies, and without healer no big heals.

    Idk what do you mean for healbot but for me an healbot is a character that can heal a lot but can't excape and survive from flankers because he's really fragile and he must be protected.
    You fix this problem just by increasing healer's survivability, increasing their damage isn't needed.

    https://www.thebettermeta.com/charts/individual_champion_performance/
    If you look at the damage done tab in this graph every support characters except Grohk and Pip has their total damage done in a match in a downward state, which means they spent most of their time in match just healing.
    I am not asking adding damage, I am just reading the graph and it shows supports have becoming closer to heal bots



  • @Gao-Shun said in Where is the End of the Burst Meta?:

    before he retired cause he doesn't like where the game is going, and he was right.

    so, where did you find that info? rather curious



  • @Zeebuoy said in Where is the End of the Burst Meta?:

    @Gao-Shun said in Where is the End of the Burst Meta?:

    before he retired cause he doesn't like where the game is going, and he was right.

    so, where did you find that info? rather curious

    defnothanzo not liking the way the game is going? he said it on one of his final videos



  • @Gao-Shun
    What video exactly? Even the fortnite ones??
    I can't find anything



  • @Driggydrug First I gotta apologize, I had another look and he didn't retire because of burst escalation but cause of essence system. I overthink that and combine that with his PC/console balancing rant.

    he retired because he was angry at HR customization & monetization system (Cassie OB51 gameplay video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCFTcWHvUl4



  • @Gao-Shun thx


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