The Champion Talents Guide



  • So guys!

    I am thankful for all of your contributions cause this Talents Guide is now complete!



  • @TangAce said in The Champion Talents Guide:

    pip : I'd say MP is better cause combat medic lower the damage you do since you shoot to heal

    well, you could take away healing cards for survival cards. and ammo cards. so theres that



  • @Dusklicious said in The Champion Talents Guide:

    Also, from a 900+ match Barik main, Architectonics is an absurdly underrated talent

    pls elaborate.


  • PC

    @Zeebuoy

    archi not bad, but the moment a tank is smart enough to destroy turrets... or if enemy as a blast...or a sniper...like any ranked team basically
    and you'll deal inconsistent damage cause shotgun, not even mentioning you won't be able to hit enemies from far away, nor flying people, then you can't be as aggressive as you could with tinkerin

    about pip, he doesn't need much survival cards, he's already pretty safe and can defend himself nicely, with combat medic if you shoot someone it means you ain't healing, so anytime someone rush you or something, you can't heal, then as a supports you gotta do some damage, with combat medic you'll deal way less, such a waste for a very aggressive support
    then MP goes through walls, which is really nice, and will heal every one full every 8sec with cards, yes it does require hard cd management, and yes it requires a team knowing how to play, and yes it's situational (like you can't play pip if you have khan in your team cause he won't clear caut reliably enough)


  • PC

    @TangAce said in The Champion Talents Guide:

    @Zeebuoy

    he played 900 casual games, so he thinks archi better cause it kinda works in casual...

    @Zeebuoy

    I actually probably have a higher winrate with Archi than I do with Tink. The talent itself is actually really good when utilized to its potential with proper aggressive turret placements, and a build like this (though there are variations of it):

    Forged Alloy IV, OMT III, Failsafe III, Brave and Bold III, Combat Repair II

    Anyways, Forged Alloy really makes the build. Without it, Archi would be downright unviable because without that durability there would be nothing stopping your opponents from 1 or 2 shotting all of your turrets. Even a SNIPER can't 1 shot it at rank 4 (A charged shot Nessa can, but other than that no). OMT is important for any Barik build to manage CDs, Failsafe is just too good to pass off on (one thing Tang was actually right about, but said too rudely for me to listen initially. Did my own testing, and it works really well even on Archi), Brave and Bold because it's just necessary. And a filler. Good ones include: the aforementioned Combat Repair, Accelerator Field (Good for kiting), and Bowling Ball (Because Failsafe + Bowling Ball is a nice combo).

    And, yes, this is consistent with my guide. I'm essentially saying the same thing it does after the most recent edit.


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  • Moderator

    Stop making personal attacks and other inappropriate debates. I don't care who started it, that applies to both of you.



  • I'm personally upset with the debates in this thread because it's somewhat... toxic

    Nextly, please know I made this thread for the general talents, I know it's possible to use Snow Globe on Evie, but generally speaking, Wormhole is still the best talent because that's how Evie is mostly played.

    If someone wants to have an opinion please be civil, don't be accusive, and that should be all... Thank You.

    P.S. I'm updating this thread so it would be less about viable talents, and instead would be about the general talents used. I know that there are champions with all 3 viable talents, but most only have 1 good talent, so I want to highlight that.



  • @TangAce said in The Champion Talents Guide:

    buck : the best would be bounce house, it's a one shot combo, harder to use tho

    Definitivly. I saw the KamiVS video where he plays all 3 talents and he clearly lacks the skill to make bounce house effective. This might be theoretically possible to reset the jump by bounce-damage, head-shot, net, shot and jump away. But if this fails Buck is dead 100%, and he has only this one trick, damage and self-heal is shit then.


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in The Champion Talents Guide:

    @TangAce said in The Champion Talents Guide:

    buck : the best would be bounce house, it's a one shot combo, harder to use tho

    Definitivly. I saw the KamiVS video where he plays all 3 talents and he clearly lacks the skill to make bounce house effective. This might be theoretically possible to reset the jump by bounce-damage, head-shot, net, shot and jump away. But if this fails Buck is dead 100%, and he has only this one trick, damage and self-heal is shit then.

    He also clearly doesn't know how to play Architectonics Barik from the video he posted on that too. The build he used is totally wrong, not to mention he's just so programmed to place turrets like you would playing Tink that he doesn't do it properly for that. But his Tinkerin is really good.

    I've played with him a couple of times though and I have to say in general he's really good at the game.



  • @Dusklicious said in The Champion Talents Guide:

    I actually probably have a higher winrate with Archi than I do with Tink. The talent itself is actually really good when utilized to its potential with proper aggressive turret placements, and a build like this (though there are variations of it):

    Tink is more fun though. I tried a few games and it's so much fun to pester the enemy backline, hehe. But it's easier to hit with hitscan than with tinkerin and I get more turret damage and more self-heal with Archi.

    Anyways, Forged Alloy really makes the build. Without it, Archi would be downright unviable because without that durability there would be nothing stopping your opponents from 1 or 2 shotting all of your turrets.

    Yeah, 600 HP is measly. Unfortunately the cards are needed for self-heal and rocket-boots, so I only run this with 1 point. It might be worth a try to give up some shield HP and heal for turret HP. Was the turret HP always that low btw. I remember I always bought bulldozer with Term to destroy the turrets.

    (one thing Tang was actually right about, but said too rudely for me to listen initially. Did my own testing, and it works really well even on Archi)

    Yeah. It's so cool to slide away with double rocket boots.



  • @Dusklicious said in The Champion Talents Guide:

    He also clearly doesn't know how to play Architectonics Barik from the video he posted on that too. The build he used is totally wrong, not to mention he's just so programmed to place turrets like you would playing Tink that he doesn't do it properly for that. But his Tinkerin is really good.
    I've played with him a couple of times though and I have to say in general he's really good at the game.

    Of course. He only plays Tinkerin with Barik like all GM/pro players. This might have been the first time he uses Archi. Have you seen his video with Dredge. He has absolutely no idea what to do.


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in The Champion Talents Guide:

    @Dusklicious said in The Champion Talents Guide:

    He also clearly doesn't know how to play Architectonics Barik from the video he posted on that too. The build he used is totally wrong, not to mention he's just so programmed to place turrets like you would playing Tink that he doesn't do it properly for that. But his Tinkerin is really good.
    I've played with him a couple of times though and I have to say in general he's really good at the game.

    Of course. He only plays Tinkerin with Barik like all GM/pro players. This might have been the first time he uses Archi. Have you seen his video with Dredge. He has absolutely no idea what to do.

    I haven't really seen his vid on Dredge. But I do see plenty of vids where he plays Viktor and just always overcooks the nade.



  • On the Tink vs Turrets debate.
    Barik is old, he was originally a slug sniper...
    His kit was designed for this...

    His shotgun is a tad underpowered at its role, but it still functions well as a wrecker-caut utility...
    I tend to think barik being the dwarf engineer should be able to switch in between weapon attack states instead of being talent bound as a damage utility feature.
    But I digress...

    Talent aside, Turrets are actually highly Underrated.
    Take it from Dimitri, he who proclaims to be a freaking battle wizard around the Tanks.

    When used right Turrets allow barik to stall out areas of all kinds depending on turret placement, allowing barik to deal more cqc damage allowing for additional while stalling.
    Turrets are not for frontline defense as a whole, they are not supposed to deal big damage, and their damage is not meant to be all that impactful, they just do no fall off chipping damage to the first target that enters the area, they function very well as backline defence if placed placed out of the initial sight of the enemy, forcing them to look away from you or your team in order to counter it in a 1v1 sense.
    They provide a target reveal, cause foes to go into combat, they force a target to shoot it, all of which waste enemy time and provide you information, essentially a chunky oppressor mine.

    My issue with the turret talent is that it does not really offer your turrets much ability other than CD management and a slight dps increse.... this is not much added utility for what a talent is supposed to bring. Yes you can set up an area faster and set up turrets mid fight for survivability, but you can do this with tink and elim CD Reset with a functioning team.

    Honestly a turret talent can be viable, barik was pre talent system, and the talent system was jank from the word go. I just beleive it should just be focused a bit more on the survivability of turrets, such as better base turret hp, turrets repair themselves free from bariks cards, making others able to defend a barik turret without the need of barik's pressence, allowing the turret to put in more shots, rather then more damage each shot.

    Until bariks turrets gain better staying power at the range they are able to opperate at, they will only ever serve as a small ammount of aggression defence with supplimentry damage with more importance on los punising.



  • Just realized don't have Skye and Talus yet XD

    Any suggestions?



  • @AzrielM Skye - Debilitate, Talus - Inner Strength. Rest is trash bin.

    Also, I think You meant Dragon Fangs on Koga, not Dragon Blood.



  • NOW IT'S ACTUALLY COMPLETE



  • With Raum coming up, I could use some help with his best talent to add to the guide...

    My feeling is with the level 2 one... Any thoughts? (especially to @Dusklicious @DaddyOoker

    Sorry for mentioning but I don't know who else played the PTS


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