The Champion Talents Guide


  • PC

    @M3RC3N4RI0 said in The Champion Talents Guide:

    @Dusklicious said in The Champion Talents Guide:

    He also clearly doesn't know how to play Architectonics Barik from the video he posted on that too. The build he used is totally wrong, not to mention he's just so programmed to place turrets like you would playing Tink that he doesn't do it properly for that. But his Tinkerin is really good.
    I've played with him a couple of times though and I have to say in general he's really good at the game.

    Of course. He only plays Tinkerin with Barik like all GM/pro players. This might have been the first time he uses Archi. Have you seen his video with Dredge. He has absolutely no idea what to do.

    I haven't really seen his vid on Dredge. But I do see plenty of vids where he plays Viktor and just always overcooks the nade.



  • On the Tink vs Turrets debate.
    Barik is old, he was originally a slug sniper...
    His kit was designed for this...

    His shotgun is a tad underpowered at its role, but it still functions well as a wrecker-caut utility...
    I tend to think barik being the dwarf engineer should be able to switch in between weapon attack states instead of being talent bound as a damage utility feature.
    But I digress...

    Talent aside, Turrets are actually highly Underrated.
    Take it from Dimitri, he who proclaims to be a freaking battle wizard around the Tanks.

    When used right Turrets allow barik to stall out areas of all kinds depending on turret placement, allowing barik to deal more cqc damage allowing for additional while stalling.
    Turrets are not for frontline defense as a whole, they are not supposed to deal big damage, and their damage is not meant to be all that impactful, they just do no fall off chipping damage to the first target that enters the area, they function very well as backline defence if placed placed out of the initial sight of the enemy, forcing them to look away from you or your team in order to counter it in a 1v1 sense.
    They provide a target reveal, cause foes to go into combat, they force a target to shoot it, all of which waste enemy time and provide you information, essentially a chunky oppressor mine.

    My issue with the turret talent is that it does not really offer your turrets much ability other than CD management and a slight dps increse.... this is not much added utility for what a talent is supposed to bring. Yes you can set up an area faster and set up turrets mid fight for survivability, but you can do this with tink and elim CD Reset with a functioning team.

    Honestly a turret talent can be viable, barik was pre talent system, and the talent system was jank from the word go. I just beleive it should just be focused a bit more on the survivability of turrets, such as better base turret hp, turrets repair themselves free from bariks cards, making others able to defend a barik turret without the need of barik's pressence, allowing the turret to put in more shots, rather then more damage each shot.

    Until bariks turrets gain better staying power at the range they are able to opperate at, they will only ever serve as a small ammount of aggression defence with supplimentry damage with more importance on los punising.



  • Just realized don't have Skye and Talus yet XD

    Any suggestions?



  • @AzrielM Skye - Debilitate, Talus - Inner Strength. Rest is trash bin.

    Also, I think You meant Dragon Fangs on Koga, not Dragon Blood.



  • NOW IT'S ACTUALLY COMPLETE



  • With Raum coming up, I could use some help with his best talent to add to the guide...

    My feeling is with the level 2 one... Any thoughts? (especially to @Dusklicious @DaddyOoker

    Sorry for mentioning but I don't know who else played the PTS


  • PC

    @AzrielM said in The Champion Talents Guide:

    With Raum coming up, I could use some help with his best talent to add to the guide...

    My feeling is with the level 2 one... Any thoughts? (especially to @Dusklicious @DaddyOoker

    Sorry for mentioning but I don't know who else played the PTS

    Both Enforcer and Earthsplitter are good, I personally prefer having the DR because it's more reliable, but having an almost constant uptime on the CC and the instant shield/deployable destruction from Earthsplitter's effect can be useful as well. I feel like it comes down to personal preference, but if I had to say one is better I'd say Enforcer (Default) IMO, because of how reliable the DR is, and not to mention there are a couple of cards that synergize with it like Harbinger, but I can't find anything specifically that synergizes with it.

    Subservience however is total and utter $#!+. 😆


  • PC

    @AzrielM said in The Champion Talents Guide:

    With Raum coming up, I could use some help with his best talent to add to the guide...

    My feeling is with the level 2 one... Any thoughts? (especially to @Dusklicious @DaddyOoker

    Sorry for mentioning but I don't know who else played the PTS

    I only got to play one live player match with Raum. I had no interest trying the last talent - wasn't interested in healing. Funny is the only live match I played had no support. If you want to watch it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAqasNLbG5I

    The problem I have with the Enforcer talent is that Juggernaut is countered by almost anything making it's usefulness outside of damage reduction questionable. I think you need to fully understand the enemy team's abilities to make good use of this talent.

    The live player match was with Earthsplitter Talent. I liked having the ult up more often so I got to try a few things. I wasn't sure if the ult would work up the stairs... it did. Still I didn't use the ult all that much. I forgot to try to use it against the ulting Drogoz so I don't know if it would have done anything to save me. A lot of unanswered questions really.

    In the end people will have to decide for themselves.



  • I'm not necroing, sorry

    But, I need help from @Dusklicious @DaddyOoker @TangAce to refresh this Talent's Guide with Tiberius, and also, all the reworks and buffs and nerfs for all the talents

    Thanks. Take your time, changes aren't permanent anyway


  • PC

    @Demigod

    wow calm, we gotta see how things going to be in S3, wait like 2 months before we can actually say what's going to be meta lmao, some changes might not even go past pts tbh



  • Well, since there's lots to work on, it's a good idea to start now @TangAce

    I'll start with some...

    • Khan: We might see Point Tank Khan with the Wrecker nerfs, Lian's Shield might be viable.
    • Fernando: Scorch is much better now.
    • Ash: We will never play Ash ever again.
    • Terminus: Decimate might just win out to the other 2.
    • Torvald: Grandpa over Field Study
    • Makoa: Leviathan loses value, probably gonna go to Pluck or HalfShell
    • Barik: Tinkerin nerfs, would see some changes perhaps to the meta?

    • Zhin: Smolder gaining more value with Yomi kit going to his base heavy hit.

    • Strix: Unauthorized Use nerfed? Might see changes?
    • Cassie: Biggest change. Probably gonna go to Exaction, Big Game drastically nerfed, Impulse becoming kinda bad...

    • Grover: I believe with the Fatalis changes, we'll see Hybrid Grover.

  • PC

    My opinions on some characters' viable talents heading into S3:

    • Grover- Definitely Deep Roots hybrid. Rampant Blooming was already hardly meta and Ferocity sucks on live and it will still suck in Season 3.
    • Barik- Architectonics is without question the best talent going into Season 3, though a case can be made for Fortify with the Wrecker nerfs.
    • Terminus- Crush/Decimate depending on matchup. Crush in particularly will be a great counter-pick for Barik in the coming meta.
    • Fernando- Scorch. Yep, it's back and luckily seemingly not broken this time.
    • Atlas- Deja Vu. Atlas without it will be unviable with the changes.
    • Koga- Andrenaline Junkie.
    • Ruckus- Aerial Assault might be viable.
    • Ash- Just play Nando instead.
    • Raum- Might be okay with Earthsplitter or Enforcer?
    • Tyra- She's not going to be good, but if you really want to play her, Burn Monster is your only option. Otherwise, just play Vivian instead.
    • Kinessa- Reposition. Most of the really impactful buffs were to her transporter. But Strix is still broken, so she's not really going to be all that great.

    EDIT: Changed after PTS


  • PC

    @Dusklicious Viktor Cardio buffed?

    • Reduced Healing per second 400-->300
    • Scramble card will max out at 20% DR instead of 25%

    What am I missing?



  • @DaddyOoker

    Unfortunately...

    300 health per second under the new Caut 3 would mean that he would heal 75 per second, not the old 40 per second.

    That's nearly twice more... As for Scramble nerfs, I think it doesn't change much


  • PC

    @DaddyOoker said in The Champion Talents Guide:

    @Dusklicious Viktor Cardio buffed?

    • Reduced Healing per second 400-->300
    • Scramble card will max out at 20% DR instead of 25%

    What am I missing?

    Guerilla Warfare [Frag Grenade]
    OLD: Gain 10% Reload Speed for 4s after Hustle ends
    NEW: Reduce the Cooldown of Frag Grenade by {0.2|0.2}s every 1s while Hustle is active.

    Also the Caut nerfs apply so the decrease to the healing is negligible. Not to mention the DR change on Scramble really isn't that big of a deal when you consider that Caut 2 isn't going to cut it anymore for dealing with the healing. On Live, Caut 2 would reduce the healing to 160 per second and on the new patch it will only reduce it to 180 per second. Also caut 3 will only reduce it to 75 per second instead of the 40 per second as is on live. Only time it will be reduced is against Caut 1.


  • PC

    my opinions

    nando scorch will be playable, but formidable remains also strong, aegis might be viable due to wreck nerf
    khan won't be point, might see more stun khan due to resilience nerf tho
    ash well rip
    term will stay decimate and still won't be played
    torv will get perma banned again
    koa will either be pluck for offtank or halfshell for point, but imo shield builds lose all value due to wreck nerf, it was good when the enemy could one shot shield, but now, I don't think so
    barik idk, might stay tinkerin, might have archi viable, it'll all depends on loadout since you can build for turrets while using tink for exemple
    zhin will be guillotine, smolder doesn't have much use if you have a proper team
    strix probably still UU or nocturnal, the no headshot from the other hurts too hard
    cassie, depends, I'd say all 3 are viable, they seem to buff exaction while nerfing the other, but exaction lack consistency
    vik will stay burst mode simply cause he needs it (for damage and distance purpose, also more consistent) I'm disappointed they didn't remove cardio tho
    for grover, I4d for ferocity simply for damage purpose, deep roots is hardly usable and the buff won't change much
    atlas I'd go for stasis field build, the new card reducing field cd seems pretty good
    koga might be viable but he still lack everything a flank needs ^^' will still be easy to kill, will go in the moji category with burst but no survivability
    ruckus will be aerial assault for sure cause it has such great value
    raum will stay juggernaught, and he's not that bad imo, just countered by CC, so in the proper situation he can be really good (I have like 2.2 kda in casual with him and an average 100k dmg per game)
    sha lin will be recurve
    furia beam on 5sec cd all the time
    seris collector meta, god I'm so gonna rekt people with her
    Io will stay blessing
    pip mega potion will be viable
    damba idk, I'd say both works
    as for ying and grohk we gotta wait
    oh and I'm definitely playing skye support now

    overall I think they have done a proper job making more things viable, but their balance still has several big issues imo (like how to buff maeve for no reason while not touching andro...or how to not nerf strix properly and making makoa more threatening)


  • PC

    @Demigod @Dusklicious

    It works out like this:

    Current: 400/s
    Caut L1(30%) 280/s
    Caut L2(60%) 160/s
    Caut L3(90%) 40/s

    New: 300/s
    Caut L1(25%) 225/s
    Caut L2(50%) 150/s
    Caut L3(75%) 75/s

    Only under caut 3 does he get more heals with the new scheme. If he's running away he may lose the caut anyway. Early game the healing will be weaker than he is now.

    Yeah, I guess the 5% DR difference isn't huge.

    Oops - I must have skimmed over the Guerilla Warfare card.


  • PC

    @Demigod said in The Champion Talents Guide:

    I'm not necroing, sorry

    But, I need help from @Dusklicious @DaddyOoker @TangAce to refresh this Talent's Guide with Tiberius, and also, all the reworks and buffs and nerfs for all the talents

    Thanks. Take your time, changes aren't permanent anyway

    I played a Tiberius match on the PTS - you can watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFeexVgrwmA
    Ignore the loadout - just testing.

    I already think that Tigron's Fury(2nd talent) will be my go to talent. I don't think I will get decent value out of the other two talents. I guess second choice would be the default talent if the point is close quarters like Assencion Peak. I think the third talent will need a lot of practice to get the jump distance right.



  • @DaddyOoker It appears his bounce talent is kinda crap since it doesn't do much, and the third talent offers lots of burst should you be hyper aggressive.

    I think his second talent will be go to even though it's not THAT good either...

    Huh, guess Tiberius isn't gonna be that broken after all


  • PC

    @Demigod Well that was my only match I played - I did one training match yesterday. (I bought those levels). I didn't even try the other talents after clowning around in the shooting range a few minutes and realizing how much more practice I would need to make use of them. Anyway, the stats for that match are in the happy thread - not bad for a first match and afk support.

    Broken? I think the ult will end up being nerfed in some form.

    Edit: Like CC does to Raum's juggernaut, CC kills Tiberius' mobility making the third talent useless.


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