@Dusklicious

Personal shields preventing further application of caut.
Yes I support that.

Cc immunity however... I remeber torv had this on protection once.
I would not advise it again, it was too much armour that ruined the value of landing a good skill shot CC. Skill shots countered by auto aim... not the best feeling....
Though I can understand the reasoning behind bolt and gramps needing some armour of this kind.
I do agree some more cleanses are needed in game.
There needs to be some balence act to anti cc in places.
Maybe cleanses in kit are best.
Cc proofing for duration is just good aggession protection negates standpower through cc very well.
Instant application of a state of cc immunity will negate the impact of key abilities.
But to negate both damage and cc effect of an important ability and send it on cooldown with a higher cd with no impact gain is a bit imbalenced too.

Single target instant Cc cleanses if used right will negate all makoa hooks in a game.
Extend that to the ability to devalue say a khan ult or command grab with a regular ability.

In rukus case he has ult for cc. But its suicide and yes he needs some aid here.
Although he could cleanse cc on personal shield activation for 0.2s, allowing his shield to be activated during most hard cc effects save for silences and exiles.

Torv should be cc immune in ult.
Potentially cc immune during recharge.
As being cc prone in a rechage state is pretty feeble standing power if you are telling your enemy when to own your shield regen state.

@M3RC3N4RI0

If you refer to old torvald, i have to politely disagree...
And aggree with @Dusklicious.

I remember a good 0 deaths 8 objective time... most objective time game vs 2 shielding frontlines on ice mines. And back then torv could do it with that cheeky ice mines master riding into ult starter into shield riping all defences before they could make a touch.

Torv had balence issues... that allowed him to shut down shield foot holds and push attempts way too well, while his HP provided to much ttk in a stack of tight allies.

To call him a point tank back then clearly is not right since he lacked a ranged attack.
He existed as a dominat anti frontline off tank that would cover the flank route or secured a rereat angle near the point as he was a long fight alone in a bunkered area in a 1v1, he only had to show up at the point fight allow the other tank to win shield trades and stop a push or ult that was vunrable to his cc. To fight when your side never has shields and while the enemy elim cdr will allow them to have more shield average then was a loss from the get go.

For refferance.
Have seen old torvald pro games before the overhaul?
He had to change after his shielding and shield ripping was so overtoned for more reasons that I can get into in this thread.
There was a point where his win rate was bogus asf in pro scene while his battlemath each game was the lowest on the team.
Wonky.

@M3RC3N4RI0

As mentioned.
Alteration of some Temp Buff HP cards to another armour HP that requires dozer instead wrecker if thats what it takes.
We still have no dozer HP pool.
The concept of adding armour to an ability as a form of uncautable temp hp bonus is a good one to mitigate the value of cauterise late game if it can be done wisely and not be used for hard combat advantage.

Although I do not beleive this shield concept is all that complicated, it can be sumerised in a sentence.

Shields provide protection vs further application of caut.

The healer waits for a heal window the FL provides one. Classic formula.

I beleive this is what the whole concept of shields should be about in this game, caut exposure protection.

All technical understanding is the balence of values behind forcing a heal window on someone would be getting a feel of:

• The strength of the heal window.
• The potential heal time they get out of it.
• The combination synergy or access to powerful instant healing in that window.

What I have been rambling on about trying to highlight is that the game has already has most of the values to support this modification and then trial its effect in pts.
Its current personal shield hp with 3s duration values do not provide enough HP to actually stop a hard hitting projectiles from getting through the shield and providing caut, but it will baffle a hit scan or a front line area damage weapon at least for a moment.
But this is where the concept would need to undergo performance testing to sit at a perfect threshold and remedy what issues it causes.

Reducing the strength of caut in the face of personal shielding would be a step at making personal shields have that frontline special pocket type of hp buff feeling rather then just a casual hp buff.

@Shadowpuppy
"The other thing is that the other champs can use their front lines ability to drop caut and its a team work effect."

This is the point I am trying to make...

Frontline provides windows and walls of decaut for their team as part of their role.

But not all do.
And that a balence and design issue.

So if you have a tank that does not provide a solid anti caut window, the resulting standing power of a team is lacklustre in moments of pressure, your healing synergy with support is not as effective until players make their own recovery windows and team momentum slows down.

Its clear that personal shield design struggle to provide decaut utility in the same way that other shields do, thats the issue here.

If it was changed to posses this dynamic then personal shields would be a suitable format of single target cauterise protection on the same level of other shielding just like any other frontline shield. But would not require busting out area shield or channeling an ability to provide an ally with caut protection.

@Shadowpuppy

Well no shit comrade.
I am not blind to the fact retreat is a decaut window.
Its part of what I meant by every character needs the ability to make a decauterise window.

They need something in kit to allow them to ditch combat and seek recovery.
Decauterise can be provided by via mobility and firepower, just as like any endurance dynamic can. Even if it is movement around terrain like sprint or transporter or locking out a bunker via molotov for a heal window.

But when we see champion design like lian and lex with no real caut denial, easy to follow movement or a big brian dynamic that aids in their retreat pathway when under threat, it makes one question the bogus champion design, and its lack of personal defence compared to other champion designs present.

@Shadowpuppy

A moment you get to see through terrian and glance at every other players position is a bit too much combat info to have as an abiliy, if combined with communication, lex could sit in a position and start dialog on how many team members are in a bunker or there is a flank attempt present yadda yadda.

If made a reactive ability with little to no CD. It could be abused as a mini cassie ult with its ability to highlight all champs within range and the player ability to describe enemy positioning. Ult power combat info reveal is fine, but an ability that activates many times in a game regardless of a lockout time and has the ability to have access to a hostile positioning information is a bit rich as a target selector mode.

@Shadowpuppy

He would not even need to lock himself out.
But that ability at is bogus with ally communication due to map reveal.

Why not a small 5 man select wheel when held, pressing it targets the closest enemy.

An ability rotate wheel for minor variations to a skill would be pretty cool.

@Shadowpuppy

In general, yeah.
They are the class who joust a no mans land.
Most of the general shield design should flow that way.

Although...
Because of the effect providing cover utility.
You could intergrate this design on future champs as abilities if the methods and effects are not too bogus.
Every champion needs a decaut feature somewhere in their kit, or something to get them there at least.
All the champs who have never let me down have a strong dynamic to protect from cauterise in the thick of the firefight.
Even if you have to be creative.

@NoMemeNoLife

Actuall, drag queen nando would probably make for a good pride week skin.

Meh, dio would be zhin.
I just think the ult playoffs would be legend.
You ever immortal through a zhin execution.
What a rush.

@Shadowpuppy

Care to provide more perspective of how this would be broken then comrade.
Because thats just opionion unless you start providing good examples...

Dynamically powerful yes, broken is dependant on the value the shield thats given and the dps values of the champs considering they have access to both attack and defence in this state, the biggest balence buster is champs with big regeneration.

I made this post with most personal shields in mind.
And it should work for most examples... but I know what you mean..

The main broke example I have is grover, because he brakes it, don't get me wrong, grover will brake it with any anti caut shield and his instant ult healing, this should not be a feature that should be easy to control via vine.

So with that example said, Certain others will need to change from shields to another hp buff armour that is not shield HP, so it does not provide the aforementioned cautproofing, and so the current phantom HP dynamic stays the same in these special cases.

We STILL have no dozer bassed HP pool, we can use that for armour aside from HP DR.
Have armour for a general HP bonus in a firefight, use shielding as a form of cover.
I do want to crack open a tread about armour, however cautproofing is a bigger concept to talk about, and why would we need to converse about future HP boosters if the current on did not have its issues that need to be open for dicussion.

To every other character capable of personal shielding through cards.

Fall below %HP shield cards will oft be subject to cauterise in most cases, and then its on a CD, which should be fine.

Shields tied to movement abilitiy cards are the questionable ones that provides the grover example. Should be relative to class or duration limited to movement ability alone, they may require tweaking in effectiveness. However momentary anti caut on a move ability would be a powerful feature for recovery and assault however its strength is dependant of the initial card investment.

Only real questionalbe aspect in this concept is the realtion of torvalds constant shield, which if given a potentially infinite free heal window on command, may proove a much harder targat to bring down with healing synergy and a shield reset. But that said... its torvald... whose balencing pattern taught us alot about perso shields, and we are still learning where they should sit in this game.

Honestly I beleive its a concept that will work. Its just about getting the values and dynamics right.