@Buongiornooo said in The new meta is not good for the game:

@HeartQueen said in The new meta is not good for the game:

@Buongiornooo said in The new meta is not good for the game:

@HeartQueen you want high burst, not other people, don't talk for the others.
It was proven so many times that high burst makes this game unbalanced and unfair... just to let you know, people actually started complaining about the ttk in ob53, when just projectile speed was buffed, the damage however was the same.
Now all hirez did after that patch was make the game easier and make the ttk lower... all we got were COMPLAINS and general frustration, until 2018 came and the "burst meta" started being a thing.
All this oppressive damage, along the shitty mobility and huge hitboxes, makes the game annoying and frustrating, especially in higher elo.
Burst meta doesn't belong to a game like paladins, born for long fights, strategy and big maps...

Most people want high burst, which is why burst is getting buffed while heals and sustain nerfed.

Personally, I like the idea of every problematic meta in the game as one so they'll counter each other. Flanks will have mobility to dive and retreat easily, but they can be CCed or bursted to make them more balanced. They'll also have more self sustain to counter burst. That way they aren't given free reign to just dive people, but they aren't completely helpless and useless either. Tanks will be given cc and more self sustain to counter mobility and burst from damages. Healers more hp, healing, damage, cc to counter burst and mobility. I want them to still be weak to flankers and damages, but they'll still have a chance at surviving and fighting back.
They shouldn't be a free kill. Damages will keep their burst to counter mobility and sustain. That way everyone is powerful and has a place. Of course there will still be a meta, but this will keep everyone viable.

Burst isn't the problem. It's the fact that there isn't a counter to it that's the problem. Kind of like mobility back in the day. Not enough cc and burst to counter them, so they ran over everyone. Now we can have it back because we have burst and cc to counter mobility.

Everyone wanted burst?? What? No.
No one wanted burst, the example I told you before was to let you understand how the community started complaining about the ttk even for some projectile speed buffs.
Then mobility nerfs came, damage buffs, kit reworks and a lot of HP nerfs.
And surviving became a lot harder.
If everyone wanted burst nobody would have complained about "burst meta" and how ridicously OP and annoying damagers are.
Even pros say it, hires thinks that more ez high damage = more players ... but they'll end up fucking the whole game with this stupid concept.

If they didn't want burst, Hi-Rez would get rid of it. People like braindead burst, and that's just how it is. They also don't like sustain or mobility. You should see complaints about Evie being mobile enough to get in and out. You should see complaints about Io sustaining her team with DR. People claim to hate burst meta, but constantly push for the counters of burst meta to get nerfed.

Won a ranked game with Resonance Ying. That's the thing about resonance. It's stupid braindead against certain comps but not viable against others. It worked here because of Grohk, Fernando, and Raum. They kept destroying my illusions, feeding my ult charge. They couldn't help it because they were made to destroy deployables. Though against a competent team with direct damage, they can just focus me.

Still, I'm glad I did this. Easiest match won, even with Imani intentionally throwing.

@Buongiornooo said in The new meta is not good for the game:

@HeartQueen you want high burst, not other people, don't talk for the others.
It was proven so many times that high burst makes this game unbalanced and unfair... just to let you know, people actually started complaining about the ttk in ob53, when just projectile speed was buffed, the damage however was the same.
Now all hirez did after that patch was make the game easier and make the ttk lower... all we got were COMPLAINS and general frustration, until 2018 came and the "burst meta" started being a thing.
All this oppressive damage, along the shitty mobility and huge hitboxes, makes the game annoying and frustrating, especially in higher elo.
Burst meta doesn't belong to a game like paladins, born for long fights, strategy and big maps...

Most people want high burst, which is why burst is getting buffed while heals and sustain nerfed.

Personally, I like the idea of every problematic meta in the game as one so they'll counter each other. Flanks will have mobility to dive and retreat easily, but they can be CCed or bursted to make them more balanced. They'll also have more self sustain to counter burst. That way they aren't given free reign to just dive people, but they aren't completely helpless and useless either. Tanks will be given cc and more self sustain to counter mobility and burst from damages. Healers more hp, healing, damage, cc to counter burst and mobility. I want them to still be weak to flankers and damages, but they'll still have a chance at surviving and fighting back.
They shouldn't be a free kill. Damages will keep their burst to counter mobility and sustain. That way everyone is powerful and has a place. Of course there will still be a meta, but this will keep everyone viable.

Burst isn't the problem. It's the fact that there isn't a counter to it that's the problem. Kind of like mobility back in the day. Not enough cc and burst to counter them, so they ran over everyone. Now we can have it back because we have burst and cc to counter mobility.

@shadowchess said in What would I like to change on Lian:

This is all even worse than the original idea.
500 damage a shot every 0.4 seconds
750 headshot every 0.4 seconds add 15 percent

575 body
862.5 headshots

@KicsitCsicska just because you played 1000 hours does not mean you know anything about Lian. Funny i check guru and you have not even played one game with Lian so wtf ????

So you have never played the champ but you feel like you know something about her kit and how it works, silly... Try again

I have only played 138 hours of Lian compared to your zero so we should probably take you seriously. LOL

I forgot about Lian's headshot damage. That would be broken. I would change it to Grace gives 15% bonus damage to the first shot then, similar to Cassie's exaction (but less damage for obvious reasons). And tone the damage to 450 a shot. I want her base weapon to get a buff because I would be removing the damage of Grace, lowering the damage of Presence to 700 (and 1050 max with Eminence). In return, I want more utility for her. She'll still be anti-flank, but countered by resilience and give options for flankers.

I don't like the idea of Lian's ability not allowing her to do damage to a person for a set time, but she builds more defense. That's something that's more fitting for a support or frontline.

Base Kit rework

I think Grace should be a strict movement ability that does no damage, like Cassie's dodge roll. The damage of Presence should be reduced to 700. Valor should apply an area knockback for better area control (which damage should have). Her base damage should be increased to 500 per shot.

Talent rework

Eminence no longer applies the 4 second cooldown decrease. A new talent that allows Valor to root enemies for 1 second. Another talent that allows Lian's weapon shots to deal 15% extra damage for 2 seconds after using Grace.

@LrdWompage said in Ideas to make support champions more balanced:

@HeartQueen said in Ideas to make support champions more balanced:

Pip
Get rid of Combat Medic, Mega Potion as a heal talent is good enough. Just fix his cooldowns. Have his card give a flat cooldown with no internal cooldown, so basically you can reduce his cooldown to 5 seconds flat, even if you miss potion shots. Keep acrobat's trick so that if you hit 2 shots, that's up to a 4 second cooldown, down from 5 seconds. His third talent should be something that gives him either more mobility with weightless, or a root with explosive flask.

bruh. Let me elaborate, I personally believe that combat medic is a fantastic talent and that mega pot should be replaced instead, combat medic finds a good balance between the burst heavy healing pip is known for while giving him a way so consistently heal and giving him a sort of resource management feel to him.

Although I do agree with your statements with fixing his cooldowns, a flat card would be boring and overall worse then Reload, and unless your trying to heal a flank across a wall, pots are stupid easy to land. In what I would do, I would make mega pot stronger overall, ie: more healing, less cooldown, bonus effects built in/in cards, etc. Acrobat's trick should probably be related to weightless, considering it's name and the fact that weightless gets no love.

As for a third talent, it would have to be with weightless or potions. Either a buff oriented healing potion and a cooldown buff or a weightless with a longer duration, increase to aerial mobility/maneuverability and a gravity decrease while active.

Mega Potion is more burst heal. I like it. Combat Medic is better for healing flanks though. That's Mega Potion's only problem. It's stupid good in a 2+ tank comp, but bad when you have mobile people. If you heal a flank, you're wasting it because of the nature of the cooldown. I don't want a support to feel like that. If Combat Medic had less consistent heals (like less healing per shot), but more burst, I would like it more. That's the strength of Mega Potion, the burst healing. When tanks drop caut and get rejuvenate, before the nerf to Pip's healing and rejuvenate, you were able to heal for over 3,000 per shot. That was massive. Unfortunately, Mega Potion isn't meta anymore because 2000 heals per burst with a longer cooldown than normal is a lot to take. It's really not good, which is why people go for combat medic more often now.

I would love a talent based on weightless, but it seems like a waste. Weightless is just not good, so it'll hardly get utilitized. I like your idea for air control. It should honestly have more mobility and maneuverability in it's base kit honestly.

@OriginalEquinox said in 100% Bonus MS Maeve ...:

@Musiicy know what else she has though? One of the highest skill requirements in the game, which probably isn't saying much considering most of the roster was built with kindergartners in mind but my point still stands, not every Tom, Dick and Harry can do good with her just because she has a few movement speed cards in her loadout unlike say Vivian who has bonus 30% movement at all times and doesn't require an ounce of thought or skill to play

That doesn't mean Maeve should be OP though. I hate the argument that people should be OP because they take skill to use because it implies the opposite: that characters shouldn't be viable because they don't take much skill. Seris needs a buff, yet according to this logic, she doesn't deserve one because she's easy to use. Not saying she should have as much utility and healing as Mal'Damba, but she deserves more than she currently has.

They just need the old ripened gourd but a better version. Have it in a cycle. Two consecutive uses of Gourd the first turn and only one use the second turn, and so on and so forth. You can stack the two uses for more healing and damage. That's all. Then put Wekono's Curse in his base kit, but a nerfed version, like 400 damage over 2 seconds.

@Buongiornooo said in The new meta is not good for the game:

@shadowchess my problem with the new meta is that healing is weaker, shields are weaker but damage is the same.
This will hurt the ttk so bad and make the burst meta even more of a big problem than what it already was before.
I can already see damagers like Cassie, Lian, Strix, Imani, Tiberious, Bk and Drogoz dominating the meta along with some decent flankers like Evie, Meave and Zhin, I can already see triple damage compositions -_-
Feelsbadman, #IncreaseTTK

People want the burst meta to be a thing. When you talk about providing more healing and sustain, everyone complains about deathball. Clearly the people who play this game and visit forums want burst meta to be a thing. Hi-Rez actually listened to the community and made burst more prevalent. It's what everyone wanted.

@AYYDIMITRI said in The new meta is not good for the game:

Syke's class identity is in danger.

What the fuck is a flank design nowdays... a half team healer... sustain brawler with harsh sustain damage.... wtf...

Why not just reclass skye as a damage or a support... cause she certainly performs like one.

They don't want to make moji a support cause it would kill identity... but wtf is this.

Furthermore... this dependancy on flanks with selfsustain healing requires caut to fight it fairly.
So the caut nerf is completely bogus unless squishies are going to get their free brawl healing dynamics trimmed back... otherwise a 2k HP player may turn into 3k HP, thanks to players receiving healing from themselves, and who can rush caut faster. Some high 1.3k dps squishy players get near 400 HP per sec in some cases, and if your dps is near 500 - 800, well... then you have to take caut to try and 1v1 it, and lose most of your HP fighing something that should be near 2k HP... but its not... it gains another 500-900 hit points as it takes time to kill things with low dps. Suddenly Caut importance rose from just anti healing, to something that reduces a players maximum life in a firefight, depending on sustain build.... so caut will still be a must pick to deter the power of dive with champions with too good of a sustain/dps ratio.

They won't change Moji because PEOPLE. WANT. BURST. To balance Moji like a flank, they would lower her burst, give her more sustain to balance out her big hit box, and give her more mobility. Instead they give her less mobility and keep her burst. They're doing what people want.

Skye is easy to balance as a flank. Just change smoke screen to a movement ability, decrease her base damage, and change debilitate from percent damage to actual damage. Instead Skye has a dps of 1300-1950, she busts tanks, and has no mobility at all. Now they're trying to make her a pseudo support. Hi-Rez wants Skye to be everything but a flank at this point.

At this point, Hi-Rez is only listening to flank and damage mains. Flank mains want a free kill. Damage mains want to burst people in 1 second. Hi-Rez clearly doesn't care about tank and support mains. Io and Furia get nerfed because flanks don't want to have skill to kill people, they want people to get meat bags for them to kill. Khan, Barik, and even Ash are getting hard nerfs. Everyone is so scared of the deathball meta that they're begging Hi-Rez for the burst meta.

@AYYDIMITRI said in Ideas to make support champions more balanced:

@HeartQueen

"Grover isn't meant to be a flank, which is why you fail at flanking with him."
Look... if he had Bucks Shotgun... would you then beleive me?
Buck and Grover did roughly similar damage back in the day, then they buff one and nerf the other. Leaving one with a 3s burst combo, and the other needing ages of axes to slay a turret at max dozer. But I digress...

There was a time when I had a +20 KDA as Grover, and that was because he had some close quarters damage and was safe at kill securing foes who went to retreat, (as wells as the game back then, near everyone was prone to the 2s cripple... IT WAS REALLY UNDERVALUED...). Half HP foes were fodder for grover to vine to, cripple, kill, vine to the sideline... With gutted damage evem simple enemies tend to survive trades they really shouldn't and grover's poor hostile item synergy does not help this.

Because Grover was a 3K HP +450 axe hurler with a 2s cripple with a great mobility reset kit... he took ages to kill, but he still to took time to whittle foes down if they were active in dodging axes. Now he has less damage, staying power and buffs you ask are just parts of his old kit back you see, and I agree.
I agree that he needed HP and Healing Nerfs in order to have the range to heal more then 3 allies at once, and farm ult charge through sustain healing if stick together.
I am fine with losing the HP and Heal reduction due to the party heal synergy for healing allies through terrain makes him fairly safe for his role. Just he didn't need the damage nerf the dps reduction gave him lacklustre holding power in a bunker, making his mobility useless to hold a location, and the cripple reduction hit this fact harder...

Reason Grover is not a flank: His hurtbox is the size of a tree, his head hitbox is gets him cut down by hitscan, he is geared to heal the team rather then recover himself alone. He will lose more HP then his foe... But that is ok, you will grow back.. the enemy won't.

His team healing synergy is the best it has been for his Role, problem is his true role of Flank Mobility with Tank Regeneration and Damage, dropping from close quarters tank damage started making him a target in a bad way, gutting his dps and calling it a talent is a joke, when Koa gets CC immunity pulled from talent on his base kit as a needed feature.

But the only reason his ult cannot be map wide.
You got to stick together and work together.

Lowering it to 1000, making it map wide.. just use the ying ult...

I would rather have whirlwind cleanse debuffs on allies in its aura to prevent non hard cc such as reveals, burns, poisons. With the possible addition of being an anti heal field for the enemy, essentially a larger mobile deadzone, with less duration.. something to make the zone worthwhile without it being too much.

Grover's damage got nerfed and not Buck's because Buck is a dps and Grover is a support. Now I think Grover's damage is too low, especially up close, but this is a bad comparison.

Grover with 3k HP... Maybe that may be a bit too much, but I do think supports need more health. Like maybe 2500 or 2600 hp in their base kit for the support class. Supports are basically free kills for flanks. The only ones who aren't are Io and Furia, and most flank mains complain about them on this forum. It's frustrating because I want more for supports while flank mains want them to be a free kill.

Having to stick together and work together to get healing is bad, especially when many roles require people to be out of combat. That's why Grover isn't used anymore. Why use Grover when Furia, Seris, Mal'Damba, and Ying can heal from at least 300 units away? That's why Grohk isn't in a good spot because his totem is stationary, and Spirit's Domain doesn't have long range. And he wouldn't be like Ying at all. It has higher burst healing but it doesn't last as long. Also, he's a different support from Ying in general. It's like saying Furia and Seris are the same because both have an auto-aim heal that can heal allies 300 units away with a certain talent. Similar functions of their heal, but they are very different supports. I do like the idea of it cleansing reveals, burns, and poisons. I would love to have a support that cleanses damage over time effects and reveals. Maybe Grover's ult can provide that to make it different from Ying's. I don't like the idea of it being anti-heal though. Leave that to Willo, Tyra, and cauterize.